UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Check this NPEA leader dagger

Please give me opinions on this piece Fake or real
Looks like real to me
Thanks
Oleg

another pic

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Fake!

Mark

What makes you think that?
Thanks
Oleg

The maker mark is incorrect.

To my knowledge it never existed on these blades in this NPEA configuration.

Mark

The Eickhorn over the sholder squrrel did exist on many NPEA staff or Leader NPEA daggers. Now, were they issued with a chained scabbard at the time? Maybe Ron can answer that. I'm not sure.
But in any case your right. This dagger is NOT
"straight". The big problem is the pommel inscription with date of 1936. But the Blade is post 1940. Besides poor fitting grip to crossguards.
The question is: when did they stop producing the chain scabbard for the leaders? Since it seems apparent that the NPEA mid war versions
of the Eickhorn NPEA were still at high level of craftsmanship as far as fit goes.
- wagner -

I too agree this Eickhorn logo can be corrct on these pieces.

But it does appear to have a Burgsbuller scabbard .. (due to the center ramp fitting..)

Unusual Clip marking.

What are the crossguards made of. Alloy ?

May be a parts dagger.

Better pics will help..

Mark

FAKE, Would you take $1500.00 for it ? Just kidding.I think its right as rain.

OK, You Asked! Here goes!

#1 The dedicaton on the top crossguard appears to be a Graduation date, This would never be on a Leaders Dagger! You might find an inaugutaton date for the school there, but Naumberg was inaugurated in March, 1934!

#2 As wagner has already pointed out, the "over the shoulder" Eickhorn Trademark was not used until 1940 and later, This doesn't Jive with the date either.

#3 Eickhorn Leader Scabbards did NOT have the Ramp fittings on either top or bottom, only Burgsmuller had these. There is, at Least, a mismatch on the scabbard. Here is a photo of an Eickhorn Leaders scabbard with correct fittings I dug out of my junk box.





There is nothing else that Leaps out at me, But I think you can make a decision on buying it with this.

3FL

I'am sure ,seeing this dagger was posted 8 months ago Oleg has either bought it or forgotten about it, nats

Oleg1 ,Let me know if you want to forget about it again.

It is much easier to state what seems to be ok (3.R and unaltered) on this dagger : The bottom crossguard. But even on this part I am not totally sure.

Had a look in ron weinands book on NPEA daggers..

There is no reference if this eickhorn makers mark. Very suspicious!!!???!?!?!.

Further the scabbard is not an eickhorn scabbard...already pointed out before. Furher the Naumberg school often implemented a code N442 (example) on lower crossguard.
The top crosguard could be oke..although the lower part of the letter g fals off the crossguard. A little experienced jeweler/engraver would make sure all letters fit before he/she start to engrave..

All in all at best a parts dagger with repro blade. would not spend to much money on it, if at all.

Raindrops keep fallimg on my head.

The Eickhorn over-the-shoulder-squirrel is good
makers mark for NPEA. See Johnsons Reference
Volume 1, page 470 and 480.
Why Ron Weinland doesn't have a example of this makers mark in his book? You have to ask him. He may have it in his new expanded version.
Eickhorn was the 2nd rarer maker of the 3 known. Max Weyersberg Waffen being the rarest.
I have not personally handled one. They are very
rare. See: Johnson Reference Vol 1, pages 486 & 487.
- wagner -

After I posted: I want to make something clear. That from what I have seen on this dagger, and NPEAs are tricky, that Stirnpanzer and 3-finger Louie, got it right.
This is a stone straight PARTS dagger.
Interesting to know what the seller was asking
for his rare gem?
It's a Sunday afternoon gun show special...
- wagner -

Yes, my revision is close an hope to have it done before the MAX and back from the printer.
Next, the Eickhorn TM is correct, but not on this dagger. Eickhorn did make a leader's dagger with this style TM, but not this one.
The scabbard is a Burgsmuller style and would not have an Eickhorn blade.
The upper crossguard inscription is no good on an aluminum crossguard with that date, it would have been nickel silver.
Probably some original parts and blade, but not with this scabbard and a bogus inscription.
Ron Weinand
"NPEA Daggers and Associated Knives"
PS: My new book will tell most of the secrets that I have learned over the past twenty years on this, the rarest of the issue political daggers.

Since speculations are running high I'm gonna add my unquestionable widsom to this here thread. I think that the original wearer started out as a young punk at the school in Naumberg. In time he worked his way up the ladder into leadership but couldn't part with his old dagger from them nostalgic days down there in the punkery. Since he was short on cash he only he only bought a Burgsmueller scabbard with that chain on it. Because of a uniform violation of wearing a postwar dagger he was drafted into the infantry where he ran a field soup kitchen during the second battle of the Somme. Yessir.

MVogal,
I like your twist on the story.

As nearly all is written and well decribed and pointed out in detail what is wrong (personally I am sure somebody is watching this thread to learn to avoid each mistake in the future) on this dagger, I can ad something (my "hobby-horse" in our collecting field):
The inscription (engraving).
Again a nice example of something wrong. But, hey, I have learned (thanks to this forum) that I could be wrong and the inscription could be right although it is wrong !
Let us imagine the following might has happened: The NPEA-pupil ... who later seems to have become a teacher... (NPEA�s were looked at as elite education locations) or any near relative of him has brought the certain dagger to an engraver. "Please engrave me -NPEA Naumberg 1936- in the upper part of the grip" The engraver has answered: "Hey boy, we are here at Naumburg!" The pupil answered: "I am sure in 2006, when this one becomes a collectible those *********** collectors will not know the difference, nobody will care of the difference. It also will not matter anyway if you write New York or Nev Yorc on an item, they will not know, they will appreciate it, the will buy it and pay much money for it. So do what I want you to do!!! Write what I told you!!!"
So this totally period inscription took place on this totally period item
Thanks to member(s) of this forum I have learned such things might have happened and I am very glad I could learn.

Sometimes you guys kill me! First of all it was Naumburg, not Naumberg. Next, if the student graduated in 1936 aluminum wasn't used at that time, so the guard would have been nickel silver. Next, students did move up to teachers, but he more than likely would have been gone to the service by the time aluminum crossguards came to the school. He was most likely drafted if he didn't volunteer.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Do you ever notice how the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff gets worse.

I'll agree to that Zorro.