UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Authentic double Erel standard Waffen SS officer's visor

Hi guys I have acquired an authentic Erel Standard model officer's visor. It has no moth but some moth tracking. The Sweat diamond is brittle but intact and you can make out the Erel diamond with standard beneath. The sweatband is properly marked as well. The sweatband is missing sections in the front where the insignia has been removed. The sweatband has tears,age and is brittle being the textbook wafer thin Erel sweatband.This cap is identical to the one on Bruce Herman's site which recently sold for $10,995.00 although it is not in the same condition. I would call the condition good plus, exterior being very nice.I will take pictures tonight and will send to anyone that can post. I would like to hear opinions on value. Again this cap is 100% authentic which will be evdient as soon as one holds it in hand. Thanks and cheers, Ryan

You are welcome Ryan send it to: [email protected]
But around 7pm I will go to the Bar.

Hi Robert email was returned can you please email me at [email protected] ? Thanks and cheers, Ryan

Posting these insignia for Ryan...

Back of eagle...

Skull...

Back of skull...

Close-up of maker mark on eagle...

Ryan,is that the insignia off the EREL you mentioned in the intiial post?That insignia is bad.Both pieces.Likely just replacements if you say the hat is good.

fake insignia .....

Hi insignia were offerred to me. Owner believes them to be original and has had 3 out of 4 people say so. Tony Scanlon ID them as repro from the start just wanted to post to show owner what consensus of opinion was. Thanks and cheers, Ryan

Many thanks for Doug taking the time to post for me, much appreciated, cheers, Ryan

Ryan,
Are you bringing the cap to the Etobicoke Show on Saturday? I would love to see it.
Derek

posting these for Ryan

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Happy to help with the posting of the insignia. Nice cap Ryan.

Doug

Hi Derek yes I will have it there especially for you to look and give me your opinion. I was hoping that you would be attending for just this reason. Thanks Derek, my display table will have the Heer artillery officer grouping. Thanks and see you there, cheers, Ryan

Thank you Ryan,
Looking forward to seeing you on Saturday.
Derek

That cap looks good from here!

I agree. I have seen two like it, both owned by major figures in the field. This piece is worse for wear, but such is the case in 80% of cases with caps of this kind. Kevin Finley just sold one of this type. Gerard Stezelberger had a "Privat" type which he sold a few years back. There are those who disbelieve that such caps ever existed, but I am not one of these. Despite assertions to the contrary by certain leading lights, in fact, Lubstein made SS caps from at least 1935 or so, if not earlier. Why not the grey caps of this type, which, I presume, were made ca. 1941 and the brief time thereafter. Viel Sammerlglueck. And, if the cap is good enough for Derek Chapman, then it is surely authentic. The piece shows the marks of time, but why not? I know colleague Sellick to be a conscientious collector and I have secured nice material from him.

Thanks Donald and also to everyone else that took the time to reply. Wilkin's book on headgear lists Erel-Lubstein as a manufacturer of SS officer visors in all grades, Privat, Extra and Standard models. They all shared similiar traits of manufacture, cream colored or rust colored undersides to visors, wafer thin sweatbands, gold or champagne lining made or rayon or silk. Although there are numerous examples of mint and un-issued Erel Heer and Luft visors good conditioned Erel Waffen SS visors are extremely rare. I think this is one of the main reasons why the outstanding example on Bruce Herman's site realized the price that it did. Also Bruce's offer of a lifetime guarantee of authenticity can not be beat.I am not beating my own horn but I do feel that an Erel visor that conforms to known construction methods would be more desireable than an unmarked example. An unquestionably authentic un-marked SS officer's visor is desireable in its own right. At the end of the day it is the preference of the buyer/collector that must be satisfied cheers, Ryan

Ryan,is it posssible since the front section of sweatband is missing,for you to take some interior pics of this area?Under the lining.If you can and dont mind.Thanks,Dave T.

I assume that Dave is looking for the characteristic vint hole that Erel caps had including SS if they had the vented ****ade. The hole would come out behind the skull on an SS cap, am I correct? David

Actually..No.That didnt even occur to me.This particular standard model is not equipped with the vent system.You can see in the posted pics as there is no insignia and no vent.But in any event...that idea didnt cross my mind.I was interested in pics of the "Stutze",materials of its construction and the innnermost linning materials of this area.Also the inner cap band structure and material.As the sweatband is damaged it appears the this area is readily visible.Anyway...sharp guess though ,Violin

The hole behind the skull would look like this on a vented EREL.

Yes here is another,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Stephen

Standard model Erel visor caps did not have ventilation. Ventilation was only offerred on Extra and Privat models. I am sure that Donald will echo this fact. Standard was the entry level model by Erel. Hope this clears up this fact gents. cheers, Ryan

Derek Chapman will see the visor in person on Saturday. I will ask him to post his observations and opinions then. Thanks and cheers, Ryan

Because the gold rayon lining is in the way I doubt that a camera would show interior detail without removing some stitching however here is what I can see with the naked eye. The circumference of the cap stiffener appears to be a rust colored cardboard or pressed board behind the center cap band.There are only two narrow holes present for attachment prongs of a skull.The top padding of the cap has what appears to be a white cheesecloth type layer of material with some light colored padding material and then a layer of what appears to be a tan colored material, natural, that has tan stitching throughout. So all together there appears to be three layers of material in the top padding construction of the cap. Nothing re acts to UV light that I can see. The piping of the cap definately does not glow.Thanks and cheers, Ryan

Ryan, I know your cap was not supposed to have a vent hole , I was just posting a pic for violin . I think your cap is a 100% original standard model EREL SS officers visor from the pics I have veiwed. But the insignia posted, as others have alredy pointed out, are bad.

Hi Kevin my email was not in response to your post but rather Violin's. I just wanted to clarify that this standard model of visor did not come with the costly extra of patented flowthrough ventilation. I am not sure that everyone is aware of this. I know that you are and also that you have forgotten more about Waffen visors than I will ever know. It is a relatively new field for me but visor caps are not. There are similiar things to look for in reference to construction on genuine caps whether they be political, Heer or SS caps. Thanks and cheers, Ryan

Hi kevin I was pretty sure that the insignia were copies but the owner that offerred them to me wanted more opinions. thanks and cheers, Ryan

That was the question that I was trying to get an answer to, that is, which caps came with the vent, privat, extra etc. Thanks David

Your welcome David. These forums are great for tidbits of information like that. cheers, Ryan