UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum eBay 43/44asw

Okay, I'm convinced; the world has gone mad;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&ss...0053037027&rd=1&rd=1

Somebody had to really, really, really want that bayonet. At that price I hope he got a “can” scabbard in the bargain. FP

The ball finial and the area of serial numbers looks like it could be can bard, but the price is really high. best regards,Andy

Beautifull condition but i have two one a CAN and one non CAN and neither cost over 150USD I am just glad i am not so condition orientated. Doubt this one coudl be improved but i am just as happy with mine as he is and i have 700USD to spend on other blades LOL

Madness!! im just glad the bajonets i purchase
is just unsharpened and matching not "new"

My friend here spent about 2200 bucks for a SG42. best regards,Andy

Congratulations to all of you who have these 43/44, you guys had became millionaire overnight Mine was bought for 1/10 of the price about 2 years ago.

Cheers,

Keith

Amazing!

It looks like there were lots of bidders that bid high. A lot of demand but too much money in my book. I have got mine but I would not pay that price personally. I would sell mine for that amount I suppose... so is the glass half empty or half full?

I'm not greedy - the first guy to pony up $750 can have mine. It's in about the same condition.
I thought I paid too much at the time - $99.

I bought one with a rough scabbard last week for 114, Blade is very nice but not upto this one. But did give me none CAN one.

Finally k98 bayonets are bringing SA dagger prices. We now have proof that a common bayonet, one you can buy 24/7 like SA daggers brings a high price. Dagger XXX's move over, the bayo boys stuff brings post war, parts put together prices :-)

I always wonder when I see an auction like this. The winner doesn't appear to be a bayonet buyer according to his history. Perhaps this person was bidding for the real buyer? The only reason I could see this bayonet going this high is to make a consecutive number set! The scabbard finial does look like a "can" but so what unless it is marked? I can think of all kinds of funky scenarios for the high price BUT I think it is safe to say that your bayonet in this condition would not go this high! Don't count your millions yet Guys !----Jeff Bernish

My “u” block 43/44 is pretty close in condition if not identical to the one posted. It’s also “can” marked. Apparently I lucked out, which could be a plus if I ever decided to sell it. But the downside of sales like the one posted is that it’s not going to help collectors now or in the future who are trying to build collections - which I think is very unfortunate. FP

Guys,
Something to keep in mind with all the can scabbard talk here. The asw examples that are mated with can scabbards are stamped on the obverse scabbard. Usually the can is ground away and the serial number/letter block is stamped over. Sometimes (far less frequently) the serial number is stamped directly over the unground can marking. Regardless, from the auction pics there does not appear to be any can stamping on this scabbard. As for the scabbard ball/finial conjecture my thoughts are well known - save your breath - you can not ascertain a can scabbard by the ball. I have personaly held and examined over one dozen can MARKED scabbards and the ball theory does not hold water. Lay out ten 44 dates by any number of makers and the scabbard balls reflect variance. In the words of JCJ (perhaps lifted from Homer Brett) "If it is not stamped 45; it's not a 1945 bayonet". I would add if it's not stamped can it's not a Wallmeier Machinenfabrik scabbard.

I will throw in with Jeff on this one that the only reason I can see this piece bringing this type of money is if one is trying to complete consecutive numbers. But ....... even this theory makes it difficult to explain the second high bidder!

My thoughts only - Lance O. Adams ....

Earlier ee were discussing consecutive number 43/44 asw's earlier. I almost pulled it off this past weekend, well almost, sorta (see photos). ALSO for Andy: I saw matching 44 sgx rivet #6466 gg this past weekend also.

Another!

Here is the other!

And the last!----Jeff Bernish

Thanks Jeff for posting of the great pieces, congratulation.best regards,Andy

Now for a consecutive 43/44 and 44/44 that woudl be an interesting combo. I think the price was due to quality and a mistaken idea of how amnu of trhese there are out there greater than 10,000 isnt it (off the top of my head)

Anyway all the best for a great Xmans and a Happy New year to everyone,

Hello Jeff, You should ask Lance, i believe he has some info about concexutive number to Yours 8727v,43/4Asw piece. haha.best regards,Andy

I believed that these are a lot more than the Tr bayonets that discussed in another topic. I don't have a solid figure with me, but judged from eBay sales double dated 98Ks are available nearly every months but when is the last time you see a matching Tr for sale ?

Regards,

Keith

Yes Keith, I agree with you that Tr's are much more uncommon than 43/44 asw's. It's funny that I also saw one (Tr) this past weekend but unfortunately it was mismatched. I would say that matching 43/44 asw's appear 3 times more frequently than Tr's (perhaps even less). I hope that one day we will be able to decipher the Tr mystery. One thing to note (as an observation only), I have not seen a "Tr" come "out of the woodwork". One other thing I have remembered since beginning this discussion is that I have observed a disproportionate number of 43/44 asw's in worn and corroded condition. Must have been a hard fighting unit(s) or maybe in some sort of extreme environment or perhaps the 43/44's were just poorly made. Maybe this explains the high price of the excellent one in the eBay auction (that and a buyer with DEEEEEEP pockets!). My best to all---Jeff Bernish/Tenmile Creek Antiques

Interesting observation Jeff. No intention to argue but from what I observed most 43/44 are in NEW condition with the exception of 's' block (with wooden handles) which I have yet to see one in pristine condition. I have a pair 3822u & 3827u which were bought directly from the vet's family. Although no history, the vet's family told me they were brought home as a pair from day one. This leads me to think (with other that are so new) that none of these have seen any action.

But observation is observation, as a recent discussion with Arnaud reflects. He thinks that 'u' block are less common but I think 't' block is rare Perhaps Andy can shine some light from his excellent database.

Cheers,

Keith

Hello, the dbase of 43/4 pieces are probably better by Lance, but to 41crs, Tr there is in dbase reported the highest nr. 17204, in dbase are 51 samples. To 43/44asw the range is from series p-v, that means about 70000 pcs made, so the 3x greater amount as 41crs is ok.The numbers in dbase is now 185 pcs, the smallest number of samples are from ranges p-r, the most samples are from ranges t-v, many in mint never used configuration. best regards,Andy
PS unfortunally still not find a same number by 43/43asw and 43/44asw configuration

Andrej, Keith, Carl, Jeff, et al,

Some great information in this thread. I would certainly agree that the Tr examples are far rarer than the 43/44asw pieces. I will try and fill in some blanks from the data base. The first 43/44asw are recorded in the very late o block and extend into the very early w block. Examples are therefore noted in blocks o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, and w. The most common examples are reported in the t, u, and v blocks. The p and s blocks are far less common. Examples in the o, q, r, and w blocks are rare. I would estimate that somewhere around 75 thousand of these were produced. As noted earlier many of the examples in the t, u, and v blocks are mint or near mint and appear unissued. Many of the earlier letter block pieces are noted with significant field wear and evidence of use. Wooden grips are observed on the o and p block examples. In the q, r and s blocks one will note both wood and composite grip scales. By the middle of the s block the composite grips were the standard that was maintained through the w block. Always looking for additonal serial number data to add to the data bases!!

Jeff - I have sent you a message off-forum.

My thoughts only - Lance O. Adams .....

Any ideas on how many of the 43/44's are CAN scabbarded or the ranges that they can be found in. I am currently going through a collection of overr 100 matching and near mint 84/98's with some interesting observations coming out and another dual date combination not previously noted in anything i have read, adn also another matched bayoent with differetn makers like the ab/asw combinations. Will be writing it all up on my web site early in the new year along with a mass of frog data i am obtaining. Guy is going for every year maker combo, but has yet to get the Tr, but has a nice RP marked commercial and makes an interesting comparison with mine especially in quality.

Carl et al,

In the 43/44asw series the can acabbards have been observed in the p, t, and u blocks. Unknown how many of these are out there but they are cetainly difficult to locate. I only have seven (7) examples recorded for legibly stamped can scabbards in the 43/44asw data base. All of these examples have the remains of the can stamping visible on the obverse scabbard above the frog stud. The can stamping will be observed partially ground away with the serial number and letter block stamped over top. This number does not include several examples that have a ground scabbard lip without the can marking. These are in the known can range and were almost certainly made by can but the maker was completely ground away and overstamped by Horster. The largest majority of these (ground scabbard throat with or without can stamping) are noted in the t block.

Will be interested in the results of your research with the collection. As you point out there are several combinations of these interesting "double date" anomalies. Have records for the following in 1944:
asw43/44
bym43/44 - (two variations)
ddl44/43
fnj43/44
fze43/44
cvl44/43
These are just the ones in 1944! From my experience these are hard to find with the exception of the asw variation.

My thoughts only - Lance O. Adams .....

Lance

i found 3 double dates, only one in 44 (a common s much 43/44 LOL) plus at least one double maker like the ab/asw combo, and lots of other interesting bits, and a lot of frogs - every bayonet was frogged, two of which i have seen mentioned but never seen a picture. Amazing way to spend 2 days and 190 pictures

Hello Lance, great info, could You provice more info about the 44/43ddl and 43/44fze? Is the first not only the 4ddl variation? Thanks and best regards,Andy