UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Custom dagger Eickhorn

Hello,
I got this custom dagger yesterday. I think it is a nice real one item. Any opinions about it?
Thanks Jan

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Very Nice, now the hangers

Horst

I really like the early customs daggers, I cant stand the late ones, they look like cheap junk IMO.

Nice dagger!

Hi Horst and Eric,
thanks for your opinions. A collector send me the info that all custom daggers must be make in alu and my dagger is a old fake from the 1960/70.
Jan

That is correct. This is an old Atwood special. The blade is original but that's it. The pommel is not even the proper type-it has the type of leaves used on Army daggers. The eagle is not Eickhorn or anything else. The grip is the wrong shape,color etc. If you have a dagger in your collection that looks like this it is not original. If anyone thought this was real--back to the books!!

That #@*% individual (Atwood) certainly has a lot to answer for doesn`t he?

Yes Vaughan, Interesting and mysterious individual Col. J.P.Atwood. He had contacts everywhere and early.
Because of his book, which was "State of the Art" at the time and had a "magical" quality about it, I enterered the "hobby". Hard to describe to anyone now unless you were there at the time, especially since the book has now been discredited to a large degree. But for a long time he was "THE MAN". Tom Wittmann entered
the hobby due to his book, along with many others.
However, because of daggers like the example above, many of us left the hobby because of him in the 1970's.
There was no "reproduction? Recognition!" books then. So here you have it. The "Atwood dagger", at least to me in this case, looks better than than a aluminum original. Many of these and others have been, and continue to be sold, as originals. Now they have 40 years of patina.
But in all fairness to him, he, to the best of my memory, never sold his product as "originals". Isn't that right Houston?
-wagner-

Wagner,
Thank you for that insight, although I was familiar with his name I was not aware that he was at one time considered "the authority" on german daggers. you are of course quite correct that these pieces are now aged to a similar extent to original examples & as ever one must be extremely circumspect. The Atwood name so recently associated in another topic with the railway dagger caused some consternation & has quite deterred me from ever seeking to acquire one.

Re: Atwood's sales of "parts" and fake daggers. I don't KNOW for sure if he sold things saying they were original or not as I never bought anything directly from him. Many will say he did not in his defense. Perhaps, but we will address that, IF true.
S0--the rest of the story--Many serious collectors knew or found out early on that much of his stuff was not right- -so they did not buy ANYTHING from him. We did not know a lot then-sometimes/oftentimes we were very unsure of MANY things because he, and others too, had confused collectors so much with different bad and , Yes, good stuff too, entering the market all the time. So--many bought nearly nothing for a period of a few years and MANY others just quit, some to return later, others never to return, selling their "closet" collections containing some of these fakes later and even now. Some of these old collections contain ALL fakes-or 98%.


But--Here is the thing. If you look at his book, MANY of his fakes are in there shown as originals. RZM Himmler, 1936 NSKK, etc. Now why would he do that if he was not selling this stuff as original?? If not, then he was doing it so his dealer customers could sell them as original. Just as bad IMO, and IMO he did more damage to the hobby than anyone else before or after.
So--take care--there is a lot of fake stuff out there from the old days and new fakes enter the market all the time. Go to shows-look at all the stuff-keep up with what is going on-It's the "closet" collector who has the most to fear.
Buy Books! Read to study-not to accept or refute the information -but to compare, discuss and consider-and find the truth. If possible.

Houston, you are totally right but forgot only one thing : Sign up at GD.C where a lot of very experienced collectors (like e.g. you are) are willing to share their knowledge!
For sure best site in the net on IIIR edged weapons.

Yes, after taking a good look I see that this is a put together dagger - guess one has to review and take their time.
After reading all the above comments are you all saying that only the aluminum models are real that there were no so to say early models????
Horst

YIKES!!!
I thought it was a damn nice looking early customs there at first... Pretty scary!!!

IMHO It does not matter too much now if Atwood sold these as repro's or not. Assuming that he DID sell them as repro's, problem now is that once these get into circulation they (in all likelyhood) will be sold as originals by others.

Houston, thanks MUCH for your input. You mentioned somthing to the effect of "if you did not know this was a repro you need to go back and read the books". Well, I confess, I did not know that this was a repro. I am looking for good reference books which specifically address fakes (see new thread in the Community Center). Can you recommend a good book on repros AND do you know where this specific repro (Atwood customs) is discussed in a reference.
I need to do some (more) book shopping!!!
Thanks in advance,
Johnny

Early models--Yes-there are originals, and they are different than the later ones that have all aluminum fittings with a steel scabbard, but this is not one of them. I don't have an early one to show but I believe Wotan does. There are several photos of these early ones in reference books.
I recommend you buy ALL the books if you are a serious edged weapon collector that is in it for the long haul. Everything in the books is not correct but each one contains valuable information-even Atwood's. It will show you several things NOT to buy.
The two volumes of Reproduction/Recognition are the best books on fakes available. Quite old now and a bit outdated but still the best we currently have.

I think that atwood book would be very useful in trying to avoid his meddling. What was it`s title? Does anyone have a copy? Might it be possible for someone who has the book to collate a reference thst could be pinned in the reproduction forum?? This would be very, very helpful! BTW just did a search in amazon for authors name & came up with zip.

My obvious early one WKC (silvering which partially nicely patinated where the protection laquer is gone) also has the configuration hilt fittings aluminium and scabbard fittings steel. But as already said nicely silvered.
Sorry, I only have a very very bad scan which does no justice in any direction to this piece. Also the configuration does not show right.
In this scan it looks like simple silver laquer which it is IN NO WAY! This is the reason I do not like to show this bad scan, but as discussion goes....
Nevertheless you can recognize the arcanthus leafing at the pommel.
@Vaughan "The Daggers and Edged Wapons of Hitler�s Germany", a lot of copies is available at TTW or TMJ.
Regards

Early WKC-

Crossguard/Grip

WKC

Goldfasan- Nice dagger! Is there a gold wash on the crossguard? Is that brass grip wire??? I was not aware of a gold land customs variation... What am I missing???
Nice looking though!
This thread is getting INTERESTING!!!!
And all I've got is a standard aluminum by Eick...

goldfasan, nice to se a true twin of mine. I think there is no goldwash on the crossguard, just the remaining protection laquer (see the frosted silvering which has remained beneath) which has turned slightly yellow.
On my dagger there is brass grip wire and I think it will be the same with goldfasan�s.
Regards.

Ahh... Thanks for the explination Wotan. Makes sense. Again, nice dagger, congrats!

wotan - you hit it on the head, it could be a twin to yours - Vielen Dank(means Thanks for those not in the german lingo) - I also love those early Customs Daggers although a later aluminum has its merits also.
Horst