UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum Frank s Honor ring

Honor ring that was isued to Dr. Frank is now for sale at prominent US militaria dealer but i wont to point out that this Honor ring have many, many red flags, first is the ring it self, its so colled mint HR but regarding realy nice look its made in diferante stayle than Otto Gahr made them, the inside ingraving is also not as it shud be and dasent have any Gahrs similarity, and now to the maine RED FLAG, a few months ago it was reported among collectors comunity that one of weal known US collectors and writhers while wisited Dr. Frank at his home in Germany stollen big part of Dr. Franks SS legacy among stollen items it was DR.Franks Honor ring, in my belive the HR which is for sale now is not one isued to DR.Frank but it yust hade his name ingraved to add it some extra value, the original stollen from Dr.Frank is steal somewhere out there, perhaps in some SS collection !

Back to the HR which is for sale, in my opinion it is fake honor ring, so colled super fake which come out from Japan and it looks so god that its scary, for a while it was in collection of advanced SS collector ( no names ) who have a few extraordinary original Honor rings in his collection and who ( i am sure abouth that )found out that he was scamed ( based on his nolege ) and is now yust traying to return the money ( big bucks ) he invested! Is that fare to another buyer/collector who will pay top$ for fake Honor ring, i dont know what woud i do if that woud hapend to me, i am living that to his consiens!?

P.S
I have HR photos from the site where is listed but since they are to big i cant post them, if anyone coud do it,i will send him photos, for the sake of nolege i think it woud be nice to see the ring in question!

Rogi,
Why not place a link to the site this ring is for sale on?

Where did you hear this story??

"weal known US collectors and writhers while wisited Dr. Frank at his home in Germany stollen big part of Dr. Franks SS legacy among stollen items it was DR.Franks Honor ring, in my belive the HR which is for sale now is not one isued to DR.Frank but it yust hade his name ingraved to add it some extra value, the original stollen from Dr.Frank is steal somewhere out there"

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

This item was widely discussed on WAF a couple
of weeks back.
Seiler (yank in uk)

There is one little problem and that is that first saler ( in my eyes procuder or this ring )sold the ring to weal known SS collector ( and Honor rings collector ) who bought this HR based on it apiriance ( i must admit that dispaite beiing a copy the ring is amasingly weal made )and after he found out that DR.Frank SS legacy was stollen didnt know what to do with the ring, so he chose to push this ring to someone alse, i also belive that since this collector ( first buyer ) collect SS regalia and HR for quit some time that he discovere soon that HR inquestion is superfake and that is why he never, i repet never wonted to show the inside ingraving of this HR, insted he chose to stay quiet and so he yust perfectly quiet gave this ring for sale on that militaria site for comisone or site owner simply bought the ring thinking what a deal he made!!!!

I dont wont to drag anyone on this fine forum, i belive that the mayority know wery weal abouth who i am writhing here and if he choses to explain as his side than thats fine by me, if not its also O.K !

I thought it was owned by a "JR" on WAF, is it now for sale? If so, who is the dealer? There are a few collectors who think it's a fake one or two on WAF have said they think the ring's die characteristics are incorrect.

Rogi,
Why not place a link to the site this ring is for sale on?

Where did you hear this story??

"weal known US collectors and writhers while wisited Dr. Frank at his home in Germany stollen big part of Dr. Franks SS legacy among stollen items it was DR.Franks Honor ring, in my belive the HR which is for sale now is not one isued to DR.Frank but it yust hade his name ingraved to add it some extra value, the original stollen from Dr.Frank is steal somewhere out there"

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

What are writhers?

Sorry, it was my taping erorr, i mean "US collector and writher" !

I have send the photo from the militaria net shop to Sepp houping that he can post it, so that everyone here can expres his opinion abouth HR inquestion!

Is this the ring in question? http://web.iwebcenters.com/grenadiermilitaryantiques/productCat47854.ctlg

Yes Billy thats the ring i have reservation about its originality! I woud realy like to hear what some more expirianced collectors think abouth it! We are tooking here abouth the Honor ring which is or was for sale for some sirius money, so no one shud be ofendind abouth my opinion, as i already stated perhaps i am totaly wrong here but in my eyes this is not period original Honor ring, no way!!!!

This ring is discussed thouroughly on the Wehrmacht Awards website. Titled, "One For the Book' Posted 12/15. Lots of questions!!

Hallo Honor ring collectors, i have seen that that nothing was cleared regarding JR honor ring which is 100% superfake, the fake ring was sold to unexpirianced collector who hade payed big bucks for something that was never ever in posesion of an SS officer or produced in Otto Gahrs shop, it apirs that someone who hase surten conections with weal known dealers and big time collectors can wery weal do whatever he pleases but you clearly forgeting that saleing an item that you know is a fake for sirius money is prohibited by law and i truly hope that new buyer of this fake ring ( inside ingraving says that this ring was isued to Frank ) will soon found out that he bought him self a fake Honor ring and he will demande some sort of compensation or started a prosecution towords salers of this ring who were aware that this ring is not only questonable but fake, but they sale it any way as an original!!!

Sorry guys but i realy dont understand how this US collectors comunity works if such thing ara alut but on the other hand you have started some sort of atack on the member/ collector Rogi/ Igor who only wont to make this thing right! He was banned from this forum with asumtion that he is me, wheal he is not but i am sorry for him, since he is an onest collector and god person but aperently some of you know all !!!

With best wishes for some of you with hum i hade god relations regarding my bad reputation and with high houpes that this fake ring will sunner or later found its place!

Matthias Fritz

Hey Matthias Fritz....Not sure just how good of relations you have with people on GDC,but there are ALOT of very unhappy people on this site, and others, that sure would like to have 5 min.in a room with you,and I am sure you can guess....only one would walk out!!!


Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sepp:
Hey Matthias Fritz....would like to have 5 min.in a room with you!!!

Sepp

I want to be next in line, how do you get your reservation ?

Oooooops Missed that alias

Matthias/Igor/Rogi/Sara just tried another one, but it, along with the above are gone.

If anyone suspects a return with a new alias, post a note or send me an email

This guy has a serious problem.

-serge-

yeah, like the rest of us he probably has some problems. BUT, thaqt took some balls knowing you were going to get booted!

Anyway,,,he called attention to a ring.. From now on PLEASE do not mention names,authors,etc.. Put out the concerns about the ring,pure and simple.
Those that want to comment/express their concerns too are as usual welcome here.

It's the 21st cent. guys.. This isn't brain surgery. SuperFakes are out there. At first they had to be disguised as ground dug pieces. Now they are good enough that Don will not authenticate on sites anymore,,only 'in hand' now,,and rightly so.. Any long timers here will remember Don used to see a few HRs posted here a week.. The good old days.........

A VERY RELIABLE source told me that Don Boyle papered this "Frank" ring as bad.

Josias,

Are you saying Don papered the ring as bad prior or subsequent to Grenedier selling the ring? The owner of Gerendier is a fellow named Bruce Herman who I've dealt with once or twice with good results. Although I don't implicitly trust any dealer, Bruce has an excellent reputation & I myself would be surprised if he knowingly sold a questionably bad ring.

I don't know when it was papered bad, just that it was. The only person who knows this, is probably the person who sent it to Don for authentication. Another TK ring that was papered "bad" by Mr. Boyle is the supposedly "de-named" TK ring, with no inside inscription.

quote:

Originally posted by Josias:
A VERY RELIABLE source told me that Don Boyle papered this "Frank" ring as bad.

I think someone was too fast in closing that "deal" , then realizing the Frank's ring needed Don's paper, got the bad new.
Another strong evidence super fu*k rings are out there, ready for any imprudent buyer.

Ric

And were lucky to have Don share his knowledge and looking out for us collectors.

You guys are realy something, this so colled super mint ring ( with FRANK inside inscripion )was first owned by very respectable forum member JR who hase all this stone mint SS daggers ( how coud they stay in such briliant state after all thouse years is another question for SS daggers gurus )and after his atempt to push this particular super fake as genuin falied he found "Grenedier" to get his bad spend money back and he did, since the ring is listed as sold now!!!
Yea, Don dase take care of you US collectors, but somethimes you yust dont wont to reson and that things like that hapend and belive me or not, there are many so colled original Honor rings and super mint SS daggers in US collections that are bad to the bones made yust a few years back ( SS daggers )but since you guys wont only mint than mint you will get, no problem in Spain are making them in even better condition than originals, if you ever heard abouth spain steal than you now what i am tooking abouth but lets get back to so colled mint Honor rings that are yust starting to pup out the closets, yes guys they are all original yust like the one JR hade ( issued to SS man Frank ) perhaps you can even get the name you wish ingraved inside, i woud preffer Heydrich after all he was one of the notorius SS man and the value for super mint Honor ring with his name issued 21.6.39 woud be adlist 100 000 $ if not even more and if someone ask me where i got it, wheal i went ground diging on his grave side in Germany, he hade to be baried with his Honor ring after all he was Heydrich!!!

Man o man, and you coll your self an experts, experts of what ??? There are some guys here that deserve to be colled that, like Gasper and Josias but others, comone, only poses some rare stuff dasent make you an expert, ask Don if you dont belive me and also ask him abouth all that mint SS daggers asweal, but i think you all already now the what woud his answer be ....

I read your comments with some interest as you mentioned Heydrich's honor ring and I follow articles about him. It was the standing order that all Honor Rings be returned to Himmler (whenever possible) upon the death of an SS officer. Although it may be that Heydrich's ring is with him in the grave, I personally doubt it.

Americans get the same treatment as anyone else does from Don. He calls them like he see them..no difference of where you are from.

Mark

Anyone else want to bet our gmail buddy Rihtar
is our old mate Mathias??????????

For sure...its ROGI...MATTHIAS...IGOR...SARA...
now...Rihtar. He sure likes GDC for sure

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

quote:

Originally posted by A J:
Anyone else want to bet our gmail buddy Rihtar
is our old mate Mathias??????????

My feeling precisely. One post and naming names. A chip on the shoulder to boot. Very crafty!?
Get a life.

I know nothing about Tote rings. but where are these Super-Fake SS daggers in Spain?
Can you shows us a photo or is this something you heard?

-serge-

And, GOSH, it sure seemed like SUCH a coincidence that so many mint rings had appeared, almost as if by magic. Apparently, no one ever wore their rings at all, they just sent them home for safe-keeping. Considering that recipients never even owned their rings, you'd think that many troopers would have actually WORN them. What would they be saving them for, if they eventually had to turn them in anyway?

Robin Lumsden in his book "SS Regalia" suggests that there are as many as 3500 rings in circulation at the end of the war. As the "dealers' keep raising their prices...............we're going to see a lot of these surface and my bet is that very few will be anywhere near the condition of what is being offered to us "fools" at the present time.

With respect to Mr Lumsden,He has NO more
idea than anybody else.
Seiler (yank in UK)

On this subject, there seems to be a large disparity in the estimate of how many Totenkopfrings are out there. Robin says 3,500. Don Boyle in his 1st book says that 1,116 rings were never recovered or returned to the SS by the end of the war. THE BIG QUESTION: The theory exists that due to the impending loss of the war, ALL rings were recalled by the SS. IF this were true, why would Himmler authorize bestowal of rings for the late date of 21.12.44? DID THIS MASSIVE END-OF-THE-WAR RING RECALL EVEN EXIST? (I tend to believe that they only wanted rings back from those who left the SS, or were killed.)

I think Craig Gottlieb hit the nail on the head about mint 44 rings. It's because so many were sent to the owner's home for safe keeping.

That would certainly account for some, but a lot of the new rings that pop up are just that - new!!Hell, they have a bin of 'em over at Walmart. Right out of the woodwork!!

Are they Super Mega Mint?

Any news abouth that "outstanding" Franks Honor ring and other simmilar beoutys in so colled mint state?

I belive that if someone is suxid to sale or even truy to sale fake Honor ring worth lets say 200$ for 13 000$ he comite a crime and shud be hold responsabile for his action and not simply return the payment to the collector/buyer who found out that his new honor ring isnt original and than he ( the saler ) is truying to found another wictime with no real nollege!!!

If someone steale lets say some jeans from local shop and the saler will cach him he will sufer consequences for his atemt but if some militaria dealer truys to scame other collector for 10 000$ and more, he will not sufer anything, how can this be ....

quote:

Originally posted by Roman66:
Any news abouth that "outstanding" Franks Honor ring and other simmilar beoutys in so colled mint state?

I belive that if someone is suxid to sale or even truy to sale fake Honor ring worth lets say 200$ for 13 000$ he comite a crime and shud be hold responsabile for his action and not simply return the payment to the collector/buyer who found out that his new honor ring isnt original and than he ( the saler ) is truying to found another wictime with no real nollege!!!

If someone steale lets say some jeans from local shop and the saler will cach him he will sufer consequences for his atemt but if some militaria dealer truys to scame other collector for 10 000$ and more, he will not sufer anything, how can this be ....

Billy G,

I agree.

Just add Roman66 to the alias list.

Chief

Roman66 was Mathias Fritz.

Dave

you just can't stop him.....

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold