UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum HELP: SA TANG MARK

Can any SA Collector tell me if they have an early SA Trademarked Dagger with a tang mark that looks like the Japanese mum: raised 6 outer circles with a center seventh circle???
It is important to find out which manufacturer used this marking. Credit will be given, photos of TM and mark will be needed.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

My SS chained has it. I believe it has been seen on Klittermann and Moog blades. I have not seen it on an early SA.

Ron... tell us why it "...is important to find out which manufacturer used this marking". Then perhaps I'll break down a few dozen SA's and check for you.

I have managed to identify some of the manufacturers of NPEA Daggers for Burgsmuller by using tang markings.
I have not been able to ID this particular manufacturer. This seven circle tang mark was also used in the manufacture of M36 SS daggers, so if we can tie it to an early SA Dagger manufacturer with the tang mark, maybe we can solve who the maker of these daggers were and that they made NPEA daggers also.
I have found that some tang marks are utilized by only one firm that forged their own blades. It would appear that this mark is so seldom encountered, that it is probably one of these firms or the forger marked only their tangs with this unique mark for a certain manufacturer.
ANY ASSISTANCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!!
Ron Weinand
"NPEA Daggers and Associated Knives"

A search of the forum archives reveals that this tang marking has been seen on Jacobs SS blades; both maker marked and RZM versions. Also Dave Hohaus stated that he has photographed it on an Eickhorn RZM blade. Didn't you just pick up a Jacobs at the MAX?

That dagger sold within 30 minutes of acquisition. I would have preferred finding an SA with this mark and all others with this marking, as some tang marks occur on more than one manufacturer and the odds of finding all tangs marked in this manner are greater in the SA than in the SS daggers.
I believe that Jacobs made SAs also, so that is my quest.
It is good to know that at least some identifcation is known, but am still trying to pin down the forger in hopes that it was a major one.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I have a Jacobs early maker SA. I tried to look for you, but the grip is stuck tight to the lower crossguard and I can't break it loose. I can't see the tang. I think Jacobs used some kind of lacquer on the grip and that is what is causing it to stick.

Hi Ron I have had an SA with this mark it was either Karl Malsch Spitzer or Franz Stienhoff,not sure which one since I sold both but I figure it may put you on the right track.

i have a jacobs marked ss ,a m7/29 ss and a ss chained all with the circle of dots mark on the tang. i have 2 other m7/29`s with no marks on the tang so i guess jacobs bought their blades in

Surprise! Surprise! I have been sent an SA by Horster WITH the seven circles mark. Evidently, Horster made early blades with this tang mark also.
The smaller companys must have bought their blades from Horster also.
Does anyone else have a Horster TM SA with this mark and the double headed arrow mark on the tang? I know Horster SAs are rather rare.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Do we know that Horster had a drop-forge, or did they purchase their blade blanks from another company that did? In Wayne Techet's book on bayonets he indicates that Horster and F.W. Holler had a business relationship. I would be hesitant about attributing the seven circle mark to anyone at this point.

It is well known that Horster was a complete operation. Its involvement with the German arms industry and the Wehrmacht in M98 Bayonet production is well documented.
The size of Horster's operation and its supplying of all types of daggers without Horster markings as a wholesaler is also well known.
While I appreciate your comments, I am convinced that Horster had some exclusive rights with manufacturers, so if you were correct and Horster obtained their blades elsewhere, their markings are unique to their operation.
I know of no other firm that marked their fittings in the manner that Horster did. Just looking at some Horster Army Daggers will make this fact obvious. Horster marked crossguard, pommel, grip with the Horster TM is rather unusual.
In my NPEA update I have some Horster markings that no other company used to my knowlege.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Hi Ron my horster sa tang is marked like this

I need to see the Horster TM and I assume the fittings are nickel silver with a Gau mark.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

The tang marking shown by seany is not the seven circle mark. Here is one from an M36:

yes ron it is nickel silver mounts and NRH Gau
will take photos of maker mark when i get a chance
sean

sorry it took so long

Wow, what a big, beautiful makers mark on an SA blade! Dang, now I want one.....



John

Yes, I now have a Horster with the seven circle tang marking. So now I have determined that Horster used two different tang markings in the period: double headed arrow (or the stylized letter H) and the seven circle marking. Both with the large Horster TM.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I have a Rich Balke Sohne Solingen RB&S S

with the seven circles on the tang Ron....
Lakeside trader has one on his site, maybe he can check his too?

John