UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Luft dagger

Hey All, I was wondering if I could get opinions on 2nd luft by Pack.
Is this maker mark early or later one.
Thanks
Stingray

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IMO and due to my experiences this is an early mm. The later ones are the "horseshoe only" and the larger "horseshoe with Siegfried above" mms.
Regards,

Well this is a strange one the scabbard is not a Pack – How many screws does the scabbard have? The pommel does not have the Pack dots tapped around the circle? This dagger just does not exhibit the traits that I would like to see on an early Pack I would also like to see that MM little further down the blade would not be for my collection

Hi
Scabbard is not a Pack? Why,it have two screw,thats wrong?
Here is more pictures

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Those funky scabbard rings are cropping up so often I'm beginning to think they're real.

Johnson used to sell that style of scabbard ring as 'left over stock', one type in alloy and the other in solid nickle, the alloy ones had a more rounded profile and the nickle ones a more square one like the one's on this dagger shown here, like I said they are appearing so often now that I couldn't really say whether they were period or not

I noticed for comparisson in Wittmanns army book on pages, 52 and 53 this early pack logo is either low or high up on the blade. Now I did'nt notice any in the luftwaffe book.

The Pack TM is an early variant.
I have two very early slant grip Pack army daggers with the same logo.
I really don't like the scabbard... Maybe it's just the photo.

Janos

Thanks guys for opinions.
Janos,where is the problem on scabbard?
Thanks Stingray

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Looks to me to be an early silver plated type scabbard.

Stingray,
The additional photos are much better. No worries.
On Picture 1 the scabbard looks like a typical repro. But as I mentioned earlier: "Maybe it's just the photo."

Janos

Stingray,
TMs of my early Pack armies.
Janos

Here is why I never liked these scabbard rings, compare with this Chinese Repro, they are similar to WKC but the give away is the differing angle between the centre vein of the oak leaf and the separating band of each section.
Still just MO, but I would never buy a dagger with these bands on the scabbard.

Nolan, Are you talking about the rings or the bands ?

The bands Ed, I've never liked them, others have made the same point several times on here, compare them with the Chinese repro, and actually the rings are quite large as well.

Chinese repro?

I must admit I am not too keen on that scabbard either, can we see close ups of the holes for the scabbard rings, the scabbard ball and throat please. Look at the scabbard bands on this repro > http://www.wardaggers.com/Rogu...lery_Luft_Dagger.htm

Thanks
Here is more pic.

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Not what I was expecting to see!. Ed may well be right and it may be perfectly ok. I hope you get more opinions as I am interested to see what others think.
The dagger definately appears to be early with that TM.

To clarify my stand on the dagger it just does not have what I would expect to see on a early Pack first the scabbard is not a Pack note the bands and also the screws are not the norm on any pack either army or 2nd luft you almost always see the dome head screws. The pommel does not exhibit any hand work that you would expect to see on an early Pack not to mention the absence of the little dots taped into the circle. I am not saying it’s a repo but at best a put together IMO and yes I have never liked those bands myself but you know what they say opinions are like. Compare this to the Pack in my collection with the transitional mark and you will see a significant quality difference with mine being made after this one just does not add up IMO.

Hi Tom, I know full well that you share your opinions of those bands with me, I think now have good close ups of the Chinese deal should say something, they always seem to appear on questionable items and are not seen in Wittmans book.
There is always the possibility of course that the Chinese copied genuine items but I wouldn't put my money on that option, more likely is that if everything else was proved to be period that the bands were a later replacement, as I said I once purchased a set from Tom Johnson, but I never liked them, they were too new.