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Joined: Jul 2005
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I just received an Eickhorn Wrangle sword today. It was purchased as a brass hilt example but after seeing the sword it looks more like aluminum, not as refined as brass examples. I have done the scratch test under the blade washer to no avail. I don't want to scratch too much. Are there any other ways to tell? I know this sounds dumb, but I'm stumped.. It has nearly 100% gilding..

Thanks in advance..

Mike W.

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MRW, please show a good quality photograph out of several directions. Normally (with good pics) it can be said if it is the aluminium or brass varation. Take especially a clear pic of the inside of the knuckle bow.
I know that the brass varations are more searched after, but due to my observations that more rare modells like e.g. LÜTZOW and justice are faked on high level in the brass avaration and up to now I have not seen ANY faked aluminium/gilded varation (perhaps they exist but I have not seen them up to now) I like the leightweight variant VERY much.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Typically, in my experience, alum. are significantly lighter in weight (imagine that...alum weighs less than brass?). Also, typically, the alum variety tend to retain thier gilting a little better than the brass based sabels. I've got a handful of alum. but mostly brass base hilted Armies. Without a doubt, the alum have that nice gilted luster still.


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This is what has thrown me, the hilt of this sword has the luster of an aluminum example as it has nearly 100% gold gilding remaining. I continued with the scratch test under the leather buffer and have concluded that the sword hilt is, in fact, brass. Plus I compared hilt weights with a couple other dove heads that I have, including an original Lutzow. I would like to send images but I just do not have the time right now.

Thanks all for the help ..

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I use my medal detector to determine the material composition of items in question (assuming the size of part and proximity to other material parts allow). I have good success with this method along with the ones perviously mentioned.


Thanks, Blademan

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Usually aluminum hilts have greater/sharper detail because they were die not sand cast. That does preclude sand cast aluminum, but you will not see a die cast brass hilt.

Brass is easily gold plated. But the same cannot be said for aluminum. Aluminum can be plated, but it’s a multistep process, and has less reliable results and the plating peels off more easily. So what was usually done with aluminum was that it was color anodized which was a more durable finish. The downside being that color anodizing has more of a softer matt finish. FP

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Wotan, did you mean to say that the fakers are doing fakes of the Lutzow and other rare models? If so, how good are these fakes? I know those japanese made 3rd riech swords that have been cropping up are just garbage and easily identified, but are there others out there in the sword market that are good copies? I always thought this was the safest area of collecting.

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I have not come accross any reprudced TR sabers that are of any quality. Specifically the Armys. There are some SS degens, mostly with the Eickhonr MM, and some crumby Luft sabers out there, and those Chinese Armys you mentioned. I constantly search fro repro sabers, as this is my collecting passion. With over 100 models of Army sabel, its going to be tough to creat a breadth of repros.


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Iar or lar (??), yes, I could observe faked Lützow and justice degens at very high standard (for my impression). I could observe them at several german shows on different dealer´s tables. Those who are well known for offering a high quantity of fakes, since some time in high quality. Naturally the blade, scabbard (and the celluloid grip of the Lützow) were original parts. The grip of the justice was cast. When you think that an average degen can be available for 2-300 EUR and the same condition Lützow can go for cheap 1500 (or even 2000 EUR), the justice for 2000-2500 you can imagine that casting a clean copy hilt (and a grip for the justice) and put the parts together will make some money....
When you know what to look for (it´s the best you own the right thing Cool) you easily can detect them. If you are unexperienced or hastily or greedy Roll Eyes you easily can be fooled.
Just my opinion and my personal observations.
I cannot say for sure but I also think to remember of a faked HÖLLER 21. I think all these high end model degens are not sure from beeing faked any more.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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I think that Wotan has hit upon another area where fakes are being made. Although, more properly, the ones I have seen were altered originals pretending to be something else instead of being completely new.

Logic would indicate that if they can make fake silver hilts (which has been done on multiple occasions) fake brass hilts are even easier to manufacture. If there is enough money to be made that is a good incentive for somebody to create and attempt to pass off a counterfeit/altered item as an original. And every once in a while even a well experienced dealer or collector gets fooled. FP


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