UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum WKC customs sword?

Hey Guys,

Earlier on, I was browsing through my WKC catalogue and suddenly remembered that I had purchased a WKC army on ebay a few months back.
While I was searching through my catalogue in the army section, I soon realised that my type of sword was not to be found
I then paged further and came across it, in the CUSTOMS section of the WKC catalogue?? Exactely the same political style eagle, oakleaves and other fine details.

So, my question is this, is my WKC sword actually a customs issue one, and two, were army officers allowed to purchase the customs sword as a variant to theirs, as they are virtually the same, except for the guard eagle?

I would be very happy to hear what you sword experts have to say. Many thanks in advance.

Dion

Nice sword.

However, I think you'll find that for the sword to be accepted as water customs (because it's gilted) it would need to have a matching leather scabbard.

"Textbook" land customs would be a WKC #1016 (your sword), except silver plated w/matching leather scabbard; preferably green eyes (altho also available w/ red eyes)

Hope this helps.

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the reply, however, if you look in the WKC catalogue, under #1016, its described as a land customs officials sword, with guilding to the hilt and an enameled steel scabbard? This is what I have.
This is definately not a water customs sword!In fact, I`m not even sure they have one??

Dion

Dion

Sorry that I was modifying my previous reply while you were responding to it.

I don't have my WKC catalog with me at the moment and you are probably exactly correct.

However, I guess the operative words in my previous reply are " ...to be accepted...";
I believe collectors want to see a land customs ( ie: rare sword/ premium value) with silver plating, leather scabbard and, preferrably, green eyes... otherwise it is generally seen, regardless of catalog designations, as an army saber.

( And, yes, "textbook" gilted water customs are all Eickhorn...not WKC)

Sorry but Land Customs swords never have leather and metal scabbards--and Yes some of the WKC's designated for water customs might have been used by Water Customs Officials--but some were used by Army personnal also.

Thanks for all the answers, however, I must apologise for my ignorance guys, but I`m not talking water customs sword here?? Or am I missing something here?
Clearly, in WKC`s catalogue, under #1016, it is designated and described as a land customs sword. In the appendix along with the price, it is described as "gilded fittings, nickle plated blade and enameled scabbard"

So, i`m a little confused as to why there`s even talk about a water customs sword??
Now, the water customs sword may be something totally different with leather covered scabbard and green ruby eyes,etc, but thats not what I was talking about?
All I know is, that the sword pictured above, is described as a land customs sword, and sold as such in the WKC catalogue.

My question is, why is this sword generally sold and bought, as an army example, when its quite clear, that its not?

Or, like I mentioned above, am i missing something here?

Dion

Dion, the swords accepted by collectors as land customs will have silver fittings. Sea customs have the gilt hilt and leather scabbard.

Hi Dale,

Many thanks for your answer. That would make sense, however, what you are saying then, is that the WKC catalogue is wrong in its describtion?
I`m just a little confused, that most collectors will quote the catalogues as being the bible of what is true and what is not, and that would also make sense, and we should orientate ourselves according to what was on offer at the time in those catalogues, however, at times, it would seem that there are big discrepancies in those sales catalogues as well then??

I`m not trying to desperatly make a customs sword out of the one pictured, but I just cant accept that WKC would make such an error in their catalogue?? It does`nt make sense!

If you look at ALL the army sabres or swords that were on offer at the time, from virtually every maker, you will have noticed that, the National eagles, are either closed wing, or the open Army variety, AND, all facing to the viewers left! However, looking closely at the one pictured, one can quite clearly see that that is a more political style eagle AND, facing to the viewers RIGHT??
Now why would that be? That, once again raises a question?

Would`nt that make sense, seeing as that the customs division fell under the command of the State, and ultimately the Gestapo? If you look at the justice officials sword, it also faces the right.

Dear fellow collectors,
up to now I am not aware of ANY period proof that custom officials did wear a silver hilted sabre. One proof they wore gilt hilted sabres is the period WKC catalogue. Has nothing to do with the silver hilted custom dagger as the army dagger also is silvered and their sabres are gold hilted.
The (prussian origin) "sign" for officers (ALSO custom officials) was the gilted hilt of sabres.
Silver hilted sabres (IF period silver hilted) are early (? there are also some obvous later pure aluminium silver hilted ones - not those that lost their gold finish!) SS sabres, whatever glass eye combinatin (red or green) they have.
Proof is that I own one silver hilted lionhead sabre and I am aware of several (few) others that directly came out from the housholds of former SS members.
Please, stop thinking and spread thoughts of silver hilted custom swords!
Additionally certain sword models were not "allowed" or "mandatory" for custom officials but "suggested" by certain firms like EICKHORN (see their list) or WKC.
Regards,

I agree with Wotan about the "suggested" models. He is quite right on that point.
I have seen however some photos of Land Customs officials with swords that certainly appear to have silver colored hilts as opposed to gold. Given the color of the daggers I believe the vast majority of collectors believe that at least the "suggested" correct color for a Land Customs sword hilt would be silver.

Could it be that some Army officers also wore silver hilted sabers? When I was in the US Army, I believe the regs would allow silver or gold uniform accoutrements although I never saw any silver.
What about vet bought silver hilted sabers with customs knots?

Hey guys,
Once again, thank you for all your answers and opinions.

Wotan, I`m with you on this one! Everything you said, echoes my sentiment exactly

Dion