UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum SA leader dagger

Have any of you guys ever seen this one, please give me some input. single choice
	lenum
Votes accepted starting: 01/01/1970 12:00 AM
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This is a reproduction from the 1980s. Advertised is the Shotgun News from the Belgium.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Ron: are you sure the artcle was about a copy SA leader and not a rare SA dagger?
mvogel: I dont understand what you are writing it sounds like nonsense to me !
jim m: what kind of skin are used to scabbards of these daggers?

Hi,Ron: I have just been told by the owner that this dagger has been his friends possition since 1951. Whatt do you say to this?

It looks cool and if it wasn't produced Third Reich period they should have produced it. I couldn't tell you about authenticity but for the right price I would buy it, but the key word is right price. Show some more pictures, please.

quote:

Originally posted by lenum:
mvogel: I dont understand what you are writing it sounds like nonsense to me !

Does anyone have high-quality photos of that piece? I would love to have it for the "Fantasy" section of R/R. All I can say is nice use of a cap eagle

The second pic shows a sample of daily activities planned by the 'souper', in this case it depicts 'BUTT KICK TIME AT CAMP PLOSCHKOVITZ'.

Geez:
And all along I was thinkin this was "Doggy DoDo" boot checkin time!!
Jim

We did thsi in the Army - They are checking for worn soles and heels.

Dave

Gee I've never heard Manfred talk nonsense before.

I think he was serious this time.

Actually in that picture, they are learning to do the NAPOLA moon walk in reverse.

Lenum, you asked for opinions and you got them. I don't keep a court-ready brief on all the fakes and repros that have been offered throughout the years. I just remember the ads in the Shotgun News and this dagger fits the bill.
When and where have you seen an original that looks this bad before? Its horrible and doesn't fit any of the KNOWN exsiting models.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria
PS: The blade looks EXACTLY like a Rex Reddick artifical damascus blade!!

Lenum:
Here are some obvious things that are wrong with it:
*The upper crossguard etch appears to be one that is often seen on post war pieces. We'd need a better picture to tell for sure.
*The lower crossguard is a pure fantasy piece which appears to be made up of a crossguard with perhaps a cap eagle attached.
* The blade is a known postwar pattern probably from Reddick
*The leather covering covering on the scabbard is totally wrong. The correct leather would be a medium to dark brown.
There's probably other things about it that are wrong that would be apparent with a hands on examination.
Jim

Lenum: This dagger is one of the many fantasy pieces that sprouted up in the postwar period. If it were period it would fall in the category and price range of SA presentation or High Leader honor daggers which would be around $35,000 to $50,000.
You have not indicated if the dagger is yours, your friend's or if you just copied a picture you saw. If you plan on buying it be sure to have the approriate collecting 'education' BEFORE you delve into high priced collectables. If it is cheap, say a couple of thousand $s, that would be indication that it is not original. If it is advertised in the Shotgun news at that price it would have gotten snatched up before you had a chance to post an inquiry.
When Ron Weinand told you this is a fantasy post war piece then this is really all he can tell you because you don't seem to have the background nor the publications to compare notes and evaluate all the references.

In summary, your dagger might be a rare specimen but, never the less, it is a fantasy postwar piece.

Hi again for the last time.
Now I got some info I can use. I do not own this dagger, I was offered it togeather with
a similar type and the owner claims he bought them in 1951. The price for both was 15000$.

Well tell the "owner" to move the decimal point two places to the left and he'll be right on the money!
Isn't Denmark one of those Countries where smoking dope is legal??
Jim

Don't get you panties in a bunch buddy. I see the Danish humor is not a very active one, being that you can't take a stupid joke. Lighten up and have a little fun, your only are alive once so don't die piissed off have a little fun in life. Jee Are you sure you haven't already bought it you seem awfully mad about a little humor.

I think you should buy that dagger and the one that goes with it for the $15,000.00 you were quoted.

Then, try to sell it. You need the experience.

Mark

Wouldnt that be funny, it might make him sit up and take some notice at what you guys are trying to tell him, some people sure dont have any humor in their lives, it must be a laugh going out for a drink with him if thats how he reacts at a little ribbing
Mike.

Not only should you have a better sense of humor Mr. Lenum(sadly the obvious dim nature of your social life is not what I am calling into question), but rather, right now you should be thinking about THANKING some of the more experienced people of this forum who helped you dodge a $15,000.00 mistake. I can accept your deficient sense of humor, but a striking lack of appreciation and etiquitte for those that saved you $15K in inexcusable.
P.S. Before you call anyone here "stupid" you should remember that YOU were the one considering paying $15,000.00 for the "SA Bling Honor Dagger". Honestly, seriously considering that investment does not even have a ring of intelligence about it.
Good luck in your collecting professor...

Hi guys a last remark.
The kind Mr. Frederick Stephens from UK was so kind sending me a private email on this subject and after corresponding with him I found the solution I needed.
Thank you Mr. Stephens

Well good for you, now you can go away and annoy somebody else instead of acting like a Prima Donna and wasting everybody's time,Mate!

Lenum: What did Mr. Stevens tell you? Did he tell you what a great deal it is, and urge you to go forth and make the big buy? Or did he tell you the same Mr. Weinand did?

Johnny, remember the rules... when you're joking, you're supposed to write in pink

Johnny,
HA HA HA; that was very well put my friend I was actualy starting to think that I would be waking up in the morning with a Horses head in my bed or having to check under my car before I headed into Barracks, now I can sleep soundly if not my shotgun is locked n loaded.
as always
Mike

Yes Mister Lenum, that dagger is a steaming pile of cow dung, just like your additude direct at out longtime forum members, who by the way were adding a little humor in their answers . Be happy you got free help, really, unless you don't consider it free since you must pay your ISP for internet service, or like I mentoned earlier unless you already bought it (The Super High Leader Dagger). Also disregard whatever that Johnny guy said we all know all of what he spews is rubbish anyways.

Thank you Adam!
I love it when people just come out and say the truth;
1) Bad dagger
2) Bad attitude
3) I am full of rubbish... hey wait a second!

OK guys, I erased most of the crap here- keep it sane- The dagger is a piece of crap and what we should learn is that aquaintances will lie their asses off for a shot at 15K. Mike

Dr. Mac: By golly, you done just erased some of my best input to GDC. This is worse than anything - its been hurtin' my feelin's badly. You nogoodnick you. Let the tonton macoos show up at your doorstep for those evil deeds.

Manfred, that was not some of your best input.Mike

I didn't see this whole thing--but-it looks like you guys were pretty tough on this new fellow????????

Well, after Ron Weinands prognosis I thought the issue was pretty much settled. So I took the opportunity to add a little 'spin evaluation' to it. The fellow, apparently, took it serious and got a bit salty. That started the ball rolling.

I think RW and mvogel gave him good answers.He received a little ribbing at the start about things but than everything got serious and he was given the info on the dagger.If he didn't except that so be it and he was told to do what ever made him happy.

OK fellows, for those of you wondering what it was that I said to Mr. Lenum, it was simply a request for more photographs, showing more of the dagger, and then my feedback to him.

I confirmed that Ron Weinand's comment about this piece being a fake-up was correct, and if Ron had seen them advertised in the Shotgun News - and that they were coming from Belgium, then Ron was accurately recalling the situation to the best of his ability.

It is true that there were couple of fakers working out of Belgium in the 1970s and 80s, and one of these gentlemen was professionally employed, I believe, as a gun engraver at the FN Arsenal.

However, looking at the photos, the only point in which I disagree with Ron (my opinion only, mind you) is that I thought the piece was not the work of our Begium chum at FN, but more like the work of one of German fakers.

The photograph that Mr. Lenum submitted to the GDC site did not, unfortunately show the blade in the clearest light (photographs came originally from the seller of the piece). However, other photos submitted show that the blade is in fact genuine damascus steel - albeit modern made damascus. It doesn't look like any of Mr. Reddick's acid etched "damascus" examples.

Final point, fellow collectors, although we all like a good joke - and we all have to take a bit of a ribbing sometimes, please remember that for some of our members who are not natural English speakers, that not all jokes, witticisms, and reparte comments necessarily translate as humorously intended.

FJS

Very good point Fred. It is a great thing to have you with us here on GDC.

Jim,I just erased your last answer-Even if you think it's true, it would not help any.Mike

Mike:
You've got mail.

I don't care what anyone sez but I still think that it was a special award dagger given to the NAPOLA souper high leaders. Thems were the ones that made the soups and the Quaker Oat meal for them punks that stood in line mit da pail and a shpoon gettin' ready for chow.

I want to say that looking at this thread, even after Mike cleaned it up, that Lenum did not get much help or very fair treatment.

Maybe he does not speak English well, but that is no reason to not give a helpful answer to the guy.

Manfred, I agree with Mike's post. Sorry

Dave

Dave: It was my impression that Lenum had a hard time accepting the response he got from Ron Weinand and started to get argumentative. In that respect I also believe that Ron Weinand didn't get fair treatmant from Lenum. It goes both ways.