Verlangerungs-messer (extension-knife) is also known as the D'Estaing knife, said to be designed in about 1780 by Admiral D'Estaing for use aboard ship. It could be used as a table knife in the closed position or open for self-defence. It was used by the French, British, Germans, Swiss and others as a hunting knife. Offered in various designs. Offen called incorrectly a folding bowie knife. Pictured 1st (3 pictures) is my "E. Witte, Trier" Verlangerungsmesser, this fancy bolster model is similar to a "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen" model or a "Renz, St. Gallen" except it has the fancy bolsters at both ends. This knife may have not been made by E. Witte, Trier and he may have been the distributor. Next is made by A. Feist & Cie, Solingen, "LUNA" trademark. This knife with checkered horn handles was found to be tasty by some beetle larva. The blade is about 21.5 cm and about .5 cm short. Both were found on E-BAY.

1st picture is a "Renz" or "Carl Holz" type Verlangerungsmesser, with fancy bolsters, sold about 2013. Next picture is a "Renz, St. Gallen" Verlangerunsmesser and Taschenmesser, ex-collection of Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany. 3rd picture is from the 1895 catalog of "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen", see upper right of picture and note Verlangerungsmesser with sheath, from Mr. Kaeshammer.

Dam!! really nice find!! Love it...

Thank you very kindly. Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany is an advanced knife collector and thinks my "E. Witte, Trier" Verlangerungsmesser is one of the best he has ever seen. He traded his "Renz, St. Gallen" to his brother.

Here is another fancy bolster Verlangerungsmesser. It is marked "Gebruder Muller" and is ex-collection of Mr. Kaeshammer of Germany. It is pictured in the closed position.

Here are two more fancy bolster Verlangerungsmessers. The 1st pictured is only marked "PATENT 19946" on the blade. The bolsters do not have the fine grooves as shown on the others. This knife has no button or visible lock and comes apart at the plain bolster side. It sold on Ebay for $747.79 with 13 bids on Mar. 6, 2022, even though there was no sheath and the blade had rust marks and the tip was damaged. The 2nd pictured Verlangerungsmesser is marked "Louis Hanau, Coln" and has a monogram on the less fancy bolster side. Note that "Coln" is the old German spelling of Cologne. This picture was from Mr. Kaeshammer of Germany who believes this example is from the mid to late 19th century.

1st picture is the Admiral D'Estaing knife as pictures in "The Knife And Its History", written on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of Victorinox. 2nd picture is from an original 1920's "Friedr. Herder Abr. Sohn, Solingen" catalog from the collection of C. Wetzel-20609 and is model Nr.2651 H. H. (Hirsch Horn) with a 20 cm blade. Note that the guard is part of the bolster and does not fold. 3rd picture is from the firm of "Wilhelm Weltersbach", model Nr. 40 with a folding guard. 4th picture is from A. Feist & Cie, Solingen, "LUNA" trademark. Note that this model Nr. 2732 Hh (Hirsch horn) has a folding guard and comes in two blade lengths, 22 und 26 cm.

what great period adverts!!

Couple real classic fighting knife patterns!

Over the years I've as well as other have passed on these 'extension knives' and we probably shouldn't have . And, even though my knife mystery was solved thanks to you its nice to see the design goes way back.....

Your French made "Bargeon, Inox", shell puller knife shown is a recent version made in the 1960's to 1970's. The shell puller type knives are as old as the cartridge itself and date to the 19th century. The 1912 August Stukenbrok catalog shows two types of shell puller knives made by J. Albert Schmidt. The 1st type is the "bolster" type. The 2nd type is the "curved blade with small hole" type. Another type offer by Friedr. Herder Abr. Sohn is a "Tweezer" type.

Let me clarify that I should have written as old as the modern cartridge such as the pin fire circa 1836 in France. The knives with the curved blade and small hole were used on the pinfire cartridge which had a small pin on the side on the cartridge near the base. The small hole was for the pin. The curved blade was for other types of cartridges such as rimfire or shot gun shells.

Here is unusual type of Verlangerungsmesser (extension-knife) that was offered on ebay and sold in Aug. 2020 for $270.00 with some fast bidding at the end of the auction. I believe this unmarked example works like the German WWII paratrooper gravity knife with a retracting motion into the handle rather than folding. This knife looks like one listed as model Nr. 7043 in the Gottlieb Hammesfahr catalog. Research notes: I am not 100% sure of the model number as the print is very small. Note that there are spear blade and clip blade models and I believe the spear blade types on the German made knives may predate the clip blade versions.

This probably early 20th century wood handle Verlangerungsmesser was posted by Colin Davis on 6/10/2007 as "Unknown German hunting knife" on German Daggers.com. The bolster is marked "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" (Legally Protected) with an anchor in between. The term "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" is 1899 or later. Note that this model has a spear blade which is probably before 1945. I have noted the 1895 Carl Holz, Tuttlingen catalog shows a spear blade Verlangerungsmesser and the 1910 Herm. Konejung catalog shows a clip blade Verlangerungsmesser. I believe the spear blade may be older than the clip blade on German made knives and I do not recall seeing a spear blade Verlangerungsmesser made after 1945.

As newbie of this outstanding forum I am very impressed of this extrable knife thread.
Thank you for sharing your great information, Wetzel 206 09, and for showing your collection's knives.

I like to show a couple of nearly identical extractable German knives, being marked by different German cutlers from Solingen:



The top one with bottom bolsters is a Hugo Koeller, the other an Ed. Wuesthof TRIDENT one.

Hugo Koeller's c.1970s sales catalog is illustrating the knife:



I could not research any details on the nearly identical Ed. Wuesthof knife without bottom bolsters, anyway Ed. Wuesthof's 1922 sales catalog is illustrating onother different classic pattern:



BTW: I learned that the colloquial German term ‚Saufaenger‘ for this kind of knife obviously is being translated by collectors in English as ‚pig sticker'.

Yes we still use 'pig sticker' title for these and other knives..

- An excellent thread.. Nice examples, and love the period adverts... Much thanks for posting!

The German names used for the French D'Estaing knife are Jagdmesser (Hunting-knife), Verlangerungsmesser (Extension-knife), Verlangerungsdolch (Extension-dagger) and Saufanger (Pig-catcher). The British used the terms "Folding Dirk" or "Folding Bowie Knife" and may have been the 1st to copy the original 1780's French design in the 1830's to 1840's. 1st pictured is made by Bunting of Sheffield about 1840's. Next picture is 3 British folding Dirk knives from about 1830's to 1840's.

on this topic,,like the 9th post I spotted something familiar I have in a junk draw..

Sorry to interrupt your great topic...

It appears to be horn scales,,blades so sharp you could shave with! Bladed marked twice..

OK, let's put our "junk" back in our "drawers" and get our "train" of thoughts back on the old Verlangerungsmesser special. Here are some old drawings from old catalogs. I would like to thank DAMAST who posted some of these old catalogs on German Daggers.com

A review of scabbard / sheath types used on the German Verlangerungsmesser from the mid to late 19th century shows a dagger type scabbard that fit the blade, with a concave scabbard throat made of metal that matched the contour of the bolster. See "Louis Hanau, Coln"; "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen"; "Renz, St. Gallen".

The probably late 19th century to mid 20th century Verlangerungsmesser form fitted leather sheath that fit the blade and part of the handle, is also found with a metal chape on the bottom. To secure the Verlangerungsmesser a leather strap and buckle or snap button strap was used. My "E. Witte, Trier" has a leather strap and a buckle that has a leather frame, not metal. The Gottlieb Hammesfahr catalog shows the leather strap and metal buckle was used on their Verlangerungsmesser sheath.

The probably early 20th century to mid 20th century Verlangerungsmesser sheaths are usually found with a snap button strap to secure the Verlangerungsmesser to the sheath. Some early 20th century to late 20th century sheaths have no snap button strap to secure the Verlangerungsmesser to the sheath.

P.S. the German name Saustecher is translated to Pig sticker and can be found on the "Puma Hunter" web site along with some Puma Verlangerungsmesser examples.

Invention:

"Modern snap fasteners were patented by German inventor Heribert Bauer in 1885 as the "Federknopf-Verschluss", a novelty fastener for men's trousers".

And so, any Verlangerungsmesser sheath with the snap button strap is probably post (after) 1885.

really,,,what great images and advertisements shown here. Nice, clear etc.

Now will someone find this knife in their collection somewhere and sell it to me!! . just like this,,knife, scabbard, cork screw,[maybe another small blade?]..

,,,,and thanks again for a wonderful topic....,G.

Hey Gaspare, your welcome and thank you for your replies.

I became a member of German Daggers.com to learn more about our Hobbie and to share the information that I have found over the years.

I also like to collect the late 19th century to early 20th century German Bauernmesser (Farmers-knife) with master blade, pen blade, pruning blade, saw and corkscrew. I have three from: "J. Wetzel Sohn, Tuttlingen" (Tortoise handle scales); "Gebr. Dittmar, Heilbronn" (Stag handle scales): "Walther" (Ivory handle scales).

I can find no information on the Walther knife. The bolsters are the same as the "J. Wetzel Sohn, Tuttlingen" and my friend, Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany thinks both knives are probably from the South-West area of Germany. The "Walther" knife could also be from Switzerland which is very close to this area.

The pruning blade is also used to collect mushrooms and Mr. Kaeshammer has sent pictures of mushrooms he has collected in the Black Forest of Germany. I am not selling, still buying and like to use eBay. Mr. Kaeshammer and friends have some of the best knives I have ever seen and like to take the train to Switzerland on the weekends, how cool is that?

I have found in my e-mail files some great pictures of the "Renz, St. Gallen" Verlangerungsmesser.

I would like to make a correction that this Verlangerungsmesser belongs to a friend of Mr. Kashammer who lives in Switzerland, which is where St. Gallen is located.

Mr. Kashammer traded his "Gebruder Muller" Verlangerungsmesser to his brother.

This Verlangerungsmesser is identical to the "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen" Verlangerungsmesser that is pictured in the 1895 "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen" catalog.

Did they both produce the same Verlangerungsmesser or was one a distributor?

Here are some more photos of my "E. Witte, Trier" Verlangerungsmesser.

Note the leather frame buckle on the sheath.

Here is a better picture of the Verlangerungsmesser, "Louis Hanau, Coln" (Cologne), probably from the mid to late 19th century.

The name "Louis Hanau, Coln" is written in cursive on the blade and maybe the owners name and not the maker's mark.

Note the bottom picture also shows a monogram on the bolster.

post # 357261

I tracked several internet files for ‚Renz‘ cutlers in St. Gallen.

1 – St. Gallen Staatsarchiv (State Archives) is listing a 1885 magazine’s report, stating a donation of table cutlery with buffalo horn handles and the blade marking ‚E. Renz St. Gallen‘ to (or for?) the collection of the ‚Schweizer Nationalmuseum‘ (Swiss Nationmal Museum).
As cutler of this table ware is named: Messerschmied E. Renz, Multergasse 23, St. Gallen.

2 – A German Antique Shop’s post was showing up a vintage renaissance style table knife with a 2-line blade marking ‚RENZ ST.GALLEN“ last year. (No 'E.' .. only RENZ)

3 – Worthpoint-com is showing up a vintage stag horn handled „E.RENZ ST.GALLEN“ marked vintage stag horn handled pocket knife with 7 toolings.
The description of the knife is stating an additional marking with „GERMANY“, surely a proof that the knife was made FOR E. RENZ by a German cutler.

Several sources are referring to Renz cutlers with the identical street name of ‚Multergasse‘ in St.Gallen, with differnet house numbers such as 21, 23, 26, and 43.
Possibly Renz family successors moved while enlargening business?

I assume that 'E. Renz in St. Gallen' was a cutler, marketing knives as distributor and possibly crafting own cutlery items.

Just as additional information:
„Swiss Army" style knives with 6 blades/toolings and tang mark in two lines „W.RENZ ST.GALLEN“ (with matching Victorinox logo ‚cross logo in a shield‘) can be tracked in the internet .
Maybe you will enjoy this letterhead:

I think it is Köln rather than "Coln"

Hi Dave,

thanks for the information and I will pass it along to my friend, Mr. Kashammer in Germany.

Mr. Kashammer did spell Coln, as he thought it is written on the blade.

Cologne was founded and established in Germanic Ubii territory in the 1st century CE as the Roman Colonia Agrippina, hence its name.[3] Agrippina was later dropped (except in Latin), and Colonia became the name of the city in its own right, which developed into modern German as Köln.

I also asked about the Gebruder Muller Verlangerungsmesser. It is from a separate firm, "Gebruder Muller, Stuttgart" Gegrundet 1830 and the firm started in Tuttlingen.

E-mail from Mr. Kashammer: "Gebrüder Müller is knife shop in Stuttgart now. I was there a few years ago. It was founded in the 1830s. It was a manufacturer of knives. But they started to sell knives from Tuttlingen very early.
Müller, Solingen is a different company."

(The "Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart" mark pictured is from a Jagdmesser blade in Mr. Kashamer's collection)

I also asked about the Renz and he replied: "Yes, it is. Probably from Carl Holz, because they traded to each other. But other Tuttlingen maker made this pattern. And Switzerland as well. See Renz, St. Gallen. But Renz originally came from Tuttlingen".

"Research is subject to change", a quote by Mildred Clark.

Chevalier,

thank you very kindly for the Renz information.

I have copied the two pages and will sent to Mr. Kashammer when my e-mail is working again.

The letterhead picture is great and maybe Mr. Kashammer will send it to his friend in Switzerland who has the Renz knives.

I will let you know if Mr. Kashammer has seen the letterhead.

This image is from the Getty Museum collection.

Here is the caption: Vues du Rhin. Der Dom in Coln.
1860–1880
Anselm Schmitz (German, 1839 - 1903)

So, maybe Louis Hanau, was the owner of the Verlangerungsmesser and was French.

This is the reverse of the card, which is not a post card as I first thought.

Note "Cologne".

Here is an old German post card.

Note: "COLN".

There are many records on Ancestry.com for several Louis Hanau's from the Rhineland, Germany (Louis Franz Hanau) and from France (Monsieur Louis Gustave Hanau) with various middle names.

I found this reason for COLN / KOLN.

Joachim Pense, from Mainz, Germany,

"Germany had a spelling reform already in 1901. Actually, it was a Conference that aimed at unifying the spelling rules in the various German states, but it also introduced some innovations: Most notably, word-inital th was replaced by t (e.g., "Thür" 'door' became "Tür") except in loans from Greek. The usage of C was reduced as well: Instead of Circus and Castell you now had to write Zirkus and Kastell. For cities whose name were in scope of that rule (Cöln, Cassel, Coburg, Cottbus) it was decided individually if it should be applied, so today we have Köln, Kassel, Coburg, Cottbus".

Chevalier,

Mr. Kashammer sent this reply to the question about the W. RENZ, ST. GALLEN letterhead and other information from you:

"Hi Calvin, I have some more information about Renz in my files. So, now it is Carneval here. I am free till Wednesday. So I can send you a couple pics of Renz. I got that from the archive in St. Gallen. I have already seen that letterhead. Renz was a high-quality maker. Regards".

If you study this stuff you should know who he is. I believe everyone knows who Lons is! Very famous and more famous than Frevert. Frevert made his knife, Dons had a knife named after him. Although very hard to distinguish from other similar knifes unless the blade is etched with Lons messer which I don't believe it is. The guy was so famous I think they attached his name to make the knife sale lol and I am sure it did. I have a few of his books.

Mikee,

who is Lons?

Where is he from?

What are the titles of his books?

Hi Wetzel,

Here you go. Best!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Lons

Thanks Mikee,

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hermann LönsFaksimile Löns
Hermann Löns (29 August 1866 – 26 September 1914) was a German journalist and writer. He is most famous as "The Poet of the Heath" for his novels and poems celebrating the people and landscape of the North German moors, particularly the Lüneburg Heath in Lower Saxony. Löns is well known in Germany for his famous folksongs. He was also a hunter, natural historian and conservationist. Despite being well over the normal recruitment age, Löns enlisted and was killed in World War I and his purported remains were later used by the German government for celebratory purposes.

Wetzel,

Awesome yep that's him. Best!

I reposted the fancy bolster Verlangerungsmesser, marked "PATENT 19946" on the blade because I just found the 17, Nov. 1882, Patentschrift for the "PATENT 19946" on the blade.

The bolsters do not have the fine grooves as shown on the other fancy bolster Verlangerungsmesser examples.

NOTE: "This knife has no button or visible lock and comes apart at the plain bolster side". (This is probably what was patent).

This new information was found on "The Blade Blog" site by Ulf Ahlstrom. This is a great site and here is the link: http://thebladeblog-ulf.blogspot.com/?view=flipcard

It sold on Ebay for $747.79 with 13 bids on Mar. 6, 2022, even though there was no sheath and the blade had rust marks and the tip was damaged.

Here is the Aug. 19, 2020, Morphy Auction description of the "very unusual folding dirk", PATENT 19946 on the blade, for opening the knife:

"Handle has a unique mechanism to extend the blade by pulling on the guard and separating the knife handle".

And I found a good picture of the knife from Morphy Auction.

Note that the knife was sold on eBay on Mar. 6, 2022, for $747.79.

This knife was 1st listed for $2999.99 on eBay and the seller dropped the price twice before relisting at a very low price to find buyers.

The PUMA Verlangerungsmesser was offered with 2 blade lengths: 22 cm & 27 cm. The PUMA Verlangerungsmesser also came with and with a folding guard.

The Puma Verlangerungsmesser is usually found with a Hirsch-Griff (Stag-handle) but was offered at some time with a Bakelite handle.

The PUMA Verlangerungsmesser was probably made from about the 1930's to the late 1950's.

The most common stamp found on the blade of these knives is the "Puma head, PUMA, SOLINGEN, ROSTFREI" makers mark. One example from "Classic Puma Knives" has the "PUMA, SOLINGEN" tang mark found from about 1940 to 1960's.

The PUMA Verlangerungsmesser was probably offered in the 1962 AMERCROMBIE & FITCH CO. catalog @ $22.50 on page 47, in the upper right of the page. Note that the PUMA fishing knife on page 46 in the lower left-hand corner is not noted as a PUMA brand.

Here is the link to the PUMA HUNTER site: https://www.pumahunter.de/puma-verlangerungsmesser/

Correction: The PUMA Verlangerungsmesser came with and without a folding guard. (Sorry, I did not edit the above information in time).

WOW!!! There are some VERY nice blades on that site. And I just looked at a small sample.
Amazing, Puma is great. I only have a few White Hunters.
Thanks for showing,
Ed

Thanks Ed,

click on "JAGDMESSER" on the Puma Hunter site, and about halfway down there is a list of 12 versions (1956-1985) of the PUMA White Hunter.

I also like the "KATALOGE & BROSCHUREN" and "BLANKWAFFEN 1936-1945".

Some great pieces and even greater period adverts... ALL very interesting,,good thread!!!!

Oh yes, great looking knifes and advertisements. I'm sure I have some knife advertisements to post.

1890's advertizement for Dunham, Carrigan & Hayden CO. knives made by HART BROS. of PRUSSIA.

Note the Verlangerungsmesser, and sheath with an interesting closure device on the securing strap on the sheath.

Thank you for sharing this wonderful sales catalog's page, C.Wezel !

Do you know any background in regards to the Prussian cutler 'Hart'?

Not much information on "HART BROS. PRUSSIA". Goin's Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings has HART BROS. on page 121.

And a nice little dagger sold for $100.00 on May 27, 2023, on a popular auction site.

Do not confuse the HART BROS. PRUSSIA with HART, NEW YORK; HARTFORD CUTLERY, PRUSSIA and others.

I found an 1890's advertisement for the HART BROS. PRUSSIA dagger, "No. 171, 5 1/2" blade with ebony & metal handle". See dagger at bottom of page.

This is very similar to the one that sold for $100.00 at auction. The bottom scabbard fitting on the $100.00 auction dagger looks like a replacement with no decoration.

Thank you for the additional information.
My 1986 edition of 'Goin's Enceclopediaof Cutlery Markings' unfortunately does not list "Hart Bros".
Page 96 is listing several other " ... Hart ..." named makers, page 121 makers from 'Kane' to 'Kastor'.

I am very pleased of your photoes and the extra vintage sales catalog's page.

I will complete my records with HART on my 'check list' for possible findings on this cutler.

See 1998 GOIN'S edition, page 121. Only the name HART BROS is listed with no dates.

Next is listed HARTFORD CUTLERY CO. PRUSSIA prior to 1914 a trademark used by Marshall-Wells.

There could be a relationship between the two markings that are both marked PRUSSIA.

Thank you for your support, C. Wetzel!
I did not know that an up-dated edition was being published in the meantime.

1931 Wilhelm Weltersbach catalog from the HUBERTUS products site.

I believe the old knives probably have the PUMP logo and the later post war models have WILH. WELTERSBACH over SOLINGEN-GERMANY or WEIDMANNSHEIL over SOLINGEN over GERMANY.

Note the top knife has the large 26 cm blade.

Note that the snap button on the 1931 WILHELM WELTERSBACH sheath has the "snowflake" design. I believe the "snowflake" design button dates from the early part of the 20th century to maybe late 1930's.

The Verlangerungsmesser with the WEIDMANNSHEIL over SOLINGEN over GERMANY maker's mark on the tang, has a bright shiny chrome button on the sheath.

Many, but not all, older Verlangerungsmesser examples have the maker's mark on the blade, not the tang.

This 1920's to 1930's BOKER Verlangerungsmesser just sold for the "buy it now" price of $699.00 USD. The condition was good to very good for this rare BOKER model. There was also no sheath.

Because of the high price, no sheath and condition of the blade, I was waiting to see if the price would be lowered. After a few months it sold to someone who thought it was worth buying.

Further research on WILHELM WELTERSBACH founded in 1882, page 548 "German Knife and Sword Makers 1850-1945" by J. Anthony Carter notes brand name WEIDMANNSHEIL, registered prior to 1938. Advertisements in 1938 are for new range of WEIDMANNSHEIL folding lock-knives for huntsmen.

Goin's 1998 edition page 297 notes: (deer's head) WEIDMANNSHEIL, SOLINGEN GERMANY (1882-1994).

Page 149 "German Knife and Sword Makers 1850-1945" by J. Anthony Carter notes the mark 'Weidmannsheil' above a stag's head was acquired by Josef Th. Diefenthal in 1997 from the Weltersbach family.

My research has found an older looking Verlangerungsmesser with a 3-line maker's mark of a stag's head to the left of WEIDMANNSHEIL over SOLINGEN over GERMANY on the tang. This 3-line maker's mark is probably older than the 4-line maker's mark with a stag's head to the left of WEIDMANNS over HEIL over SOLINGEN over GERMANY on the tang.

The 4-line maker's mark with a stag's head to the left of WEIDMANNS over HEIL over SOLINGEN over GERMANY on the tang, is pictured above in my earlier post.

Back in Feb. 2023 on this thread was a discussion of the spelling of the German city KOLN, known also as COLOGNE.

The German city was spelled as COLN and sometime after the 1901 spelling reform was changed to KOLN.

I have found an image of a German post card from WW1 dated Dec. 20, 1916, and post marked as COLN.

It seems there was a long transition period before the spelling change was adopted by the German post office.

My compliment for your nice find of a postcard with the postal services' marking 'CÖLLN'.

Thecity's name is dating back to the Roman Empire's latin name 'Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium' which was (partially, the starting word Colonia) transferred (?) to the German name Coellen, following by changes to Cöllen, Cölln, Cöln, and finally "after the 1901 spelling reform was changed to KOLN / KÖLN.

In many foreign languages you will recognize the origin wording, such as in Italian or Spanish language 'Colonia', in French language 'Cologne'.

chevalier2022

Correction of spelling for the surname on a Verlangerungsmesser from COLN, Louis "Hannau" (sic), (Hanne).

Description: DAGUE de VENERIE - 19th century "à la D'Estaing" folded 29 cm, open 40 cm - Double edged 11 cm engraved "LOUIS HANNE COLN", width 20 mm - Guard and pommel maillechort with the initials of the owner HR intertwined - Deer antler plates - Double locking security weapon - with its leather sheath maillescort trim, sheath door - Entrance to the sheath decorated with an acorn - Unique set in perfect condition.

This Verlangerungsmesser is listed for 950,00 Euros.

What a great thread!!


and another nice piece! . The button on handle,,,is that for the 2nd locking device?

Gaspare,

the button on the handle is to release the blade to open. The button probably releases a pin that lines up with the hole in the blade.

The release to close the blade is a rounded piece of metal, located next to the backspring.

The Carl Holz, Renz, Gebr. Muller and E. Witte, Verlangerungsmesser are operated the same.

This "nice piece" Verlangerunsmesser was posted before by me, but with the misspelled surname and limited information. I found the seller's site with the information and gave an update.


Regards, Calvin

I had always wondered if the old Verlangerungsmesser knives were carried in the German Army. I found this post from Bill Warda back in Jan. 2013. NOTE: "Information from a German book, "Deutsche Kampfmesser," states that this type of knife was even carried by German Colonial troops in East Africa".

Re: ??? - Stag Schloss & Stern Folding Hunter Solingen
Mikee#27749801/28/2013 02:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Media, PA
Todd,

This is known as a Verl�ngerungsmesser, or, "flexible-folding-extension" knife. They're listed in many original Solingen blade catalogs, normally under the heading of forestry and hunting weapons. Considering how many major and minor Solingen weapons/cutlery producers there were at the turn of the century, and then distributors on top of that, I'd say you've found a nice rare one there. I can't recall ever having seeing that name listed, or even heard mention of a Schloss & Stern-marked sidearm before. That's part of the excitement of collecting these things - new information is constantly found. If I had to say how old, judging by the scabbard design and decoration, mid-twenties, early thirties? possibly even teens?

Information from a German book, "Deutsche Kampfmesser," states that this type of knife was even carried by German Colonial troops in East Africa.

Even though yours looks nearly identical to the example on the Hammesfahr product-sheet, it could have come from any number of sources, especially having that unusual marking. A lot of firms made these. Whatever the case may be, your Messer looks to be in super condition, as many of these fine tools are found in "worked-to-death" condition. wink

Best!

Bill

I have just received another Verlangerungsmesser on 16 Nov. 2023 from Ohio. It was listed as: "Vintage Antique Stag Bone Bayonet Folding Knife-Rare Collectible Item".

What it looks like to me is an unmarked, 26 cm spear blade, button release, stag handle, pre 1945 Verlangerungsmesser.

I liked the longer 26 cm spear blade and button release. I don't like that it is unmarked and came without the sheath. I won this Verlangerungsmesser for $256.00 with free shipping on the popular auction site (41 bids).

The blade is 1 mm short of the original 26 cm length. There are some very small stress cracks on the stag handle near some pins and a small hole in the stag near the button.

This unmarked Verlangerungsmesser is similar to the Gottlieb Hammesfahr Nr. 7033. However, there are 4 pins securing the stag handle, not the 6 pins that seem to be shown in the Gottlieb Hammesfahr catalog.

The blade looks like the Nr. 7033 and note there is no swedge (grinding on top of blade near the tip) as found on the older? Carl Holz, Renz, E. Witte and Gebr. Muller type spear blades.

The hole in the blade goes all the way through the blade, there is a pin in the handle that the button moves, to release the blade. The knife works well and is very tight.


C. Wetzel-20609

I just found this from PUMA, U.S.A.

Product information "PUMA Verlängerungsmesser"
The original PUMA "extension knife" has been one of the most wanted rarities for decades and is now available again in a limited edition.
With a lot of passion and dedication, we have been manufacturing hunting knives of the highest quality for over two and a half centuries. Many PUMA knives have meanwhile become true classics and are among the rarities that are not only sought after by users but especially by collectors. One of these special models is our "extension knife" which we produced in the 1930s to 1950s. Now we have decided to re-launch this model, also known as the "Saustecher" because of its original purpose.
The new PUMA extension knife has a fold-out, 19 cm long blade made of stainless 440C steel (57-58 HRC). When folded, the blade extends well beyond the end of the handle and can therefore also be used for finer work. The movable parrying element ("Swing Guard") lies flat against the handle and swings vertically in front of the handle when the blade is folded out to reliably protect the knife-wielding hand - e.g. when catching game. In addition, the "extension knife" has a foldable lever that serves to secure and unlock the blade with retro lettering. Selected deer horn shells and a perfectly fitting leather belt sheath round off this shapely and high-quality handcrafted Solingen product.

Blade length: 190 mm
Blade thickness: 4,5 mm
Steel / hardness: 440C / 57-60 HRC
Length open: 310 mm
Length closed: 216 mm
Knife weight: 276 g
Sheath: brown leather sheath


Since it was formed on the Wupper River in 1769, Puma Knives has set the standard that Established Solingen, Germany as the world’s premier knife manufacturing center. Puma has been distributed in the United States since 1957 and has established a strong reputation for high quality hunting, sporting and gentleman’s knives. Hunters and craftsmen know and trust PUMA’s performance, heritage and technology. The highest grades of stainless steel, innovative designs, genuine stag handles and traditional German craftsmanship are why Puma Knives are considered at the top of every major class ranking for hunting and sporting knives.


C. Wetzel-20609, NOTE: the blade length is now only 19 cm long. Also note: " blade with retro lettering".

Another fancy bolster Verlangerungsmesser, similar to a "Carl Holz" or "Renz" type just sold for $465.00 USD on the popular auction site.

The Verlangerungsmesser was in used condition with slightly blunted tip and was missing a very small piece of the stag handle on the back.

The maker's mark, on the blade, was hard to read and has 5 letters. The seller thought it was French made. My friend in Germany suggested it was a German made Verlangerungsmesser.

There was no sheath. I did not bid on this example that sold with 63 bids.

2 Antique Verlangerungsmesser and sheaths with metal fittings.

Note that one has the fancy bolsters. There must be a name for the fancy bolsters, if anyone knows, please post the name.

I asked my friend in Germany if there is a name for the fancy bolsters. He replied:

"Calvin.
I guess there is no particular name for this bolster. This shape was taken from the French shape. As far as I know was it first used in Tuttlingen. My theory is, that cutler brought it with them during their „ WALZ“. That was very common in those times. Travelling from town to town working on different places. And they modified the knives in their ways.
Greetings T"

So, I suggested "Pinched, knobbed terminated (Quillon) Bolster". See #11 and note this Sword Cross-Guard (Quillon) terminology can be used for medieval daggers or any daggers.

CROSS-GUARD (QUILLON)
Types
Ewart Oakeshott in chapter 4 of his The Sword in the Age of Chivalry (1964) classifies medieval cross-guards into twelve types:

1. a plain horizontal bar, tapering towards the end. This is the basic shape found from the late Viking era through the 17th century.
2. waisted type, popular in the 15th century.
3. a relatively short bar with a rectangular cross-section. Popular during 1150–1250 and again during 1380–1430.
4. the terminals of the bar are bent towards the blade.
5. "bow tie" style with widened and flattened terminals.
6. a curved or bent variant of type 5.
7. the bar has a flat cross-section and is bent towards the blade; popular in the 14th century.
8. bent terminals as in style 4, but a more elaborate form with a hexagonal cross-section of the part fitted around the tang and a pronounced écusson, popular in the late medieval period.
9. an elaborate late medieval type with the bar bent towards the blade and a flat diamond or V shaped cross-section and a pronounced écusson.
10. the arms of the bar taper towards the hilt rather than away from it; mostly also with a pronounced écusson.
11. knobbed terminals, with round or rectangular cross-section, popular during the 15th to 16th centuries
12. the bar curves strongly in the horizontal plane, forming an S-shape; this type dates to the end of the medieval period and is transitional to the early modern quillon types.

The medieval dagger in the 14th and 15th century also adopted a variant with quillons, styled after the hilt of a sword. Quillon-daggers remained popular in the 16th century, after the sword type it resembled had fallen out of use.

References
^, (or more commonly "quillion".) a quillon is "either of the two arms forming the cross-guard" (OED). The term arises in Middle French in the late 16th century and is adopted in English only in the 19th century. The French word is a diminutive of quille "bowling pin", itself a loan of German kegel.

I think, "Pinched, knobbed terminated (Quillon) Bolster" is a better description, since the rare Boker Verlangerungsmesser has the "Knobbed terminated (Quillon) Bolster".

"Twas the night before Christmas, it was sold on eBay, a Verlangerungsmesser for a collector to display."

An unmarked Verlangerungsmesser identical to my "E. Witte, Trier" sold for $472.00 USD without a sheath with 19 bids.

This example was in very good condition with some loss of plating on the fancy bolsters and steel liner.

This example was listed as an "Antique French 19th folding hunting bowie knife stag handle huge rare 1850."

This is the only Verlangerungsmesser I ever saw that is identical to mine. I highly doubt it is as old as 1850.

Merry Christmas, Calvin

1850! , I agree that just doesn't look the age.. But a beautiful knife!!,,,,and that selling price I think is fair! The way things are getting in NYC it might be time to stat carrying one of these again!

On 12/04/2023 I posted:

"The maker's mark, on the blade, was hard to read and has 5 letters. The seller thought it was French made. My friend in Germany suggested it was a German made Verlangerungsmesser".

I have found another image of this makers mark on a dagger also said to be French by the seller, with maker's mark: ERBER.

See 1998 edition of GOINS, page 92: ERBER GERMANY.

My friend in Germany was correct, the Verlangerungsmeeser sold for $465.00 was made in Germany.

A used hard-to-find PUMA Verlangerungsmesser in good condition sold on Jan. 5, 2024, on the popular auction site. It sold for the "buy it now" price of $500.00 from San Antonio, Texas.

This PUMA "V-messer" had a nickel-silver arms shield on stag handle and the model with no folding guard. The sheath was without belt loop and in a damaged condition.

I thought about buying this PUMA, but the condition of the blade & sheath was an issue.

Hey Wetzel


Puma's are very nice knives but I think you made the right decision. I wouldn't have bought it for that price in that condition either. Best!

An early arched H. RIEXINGER, over WILDBAD maker's mark on the blade is noted on a circa 1900 or before Verlangerungsmesser with stag handles, fancy bolsters, button release and dagger type leather sheath with metal fittings on top and bottom.

When I saw this, I sent the eBay link to "Mr. K." with this email: "T_ _ _ _ _ ,

H. RIEXINGER, WILDBAD, I think this was made in your area in Germany. Too bad about the pitting near the tip."

"Mr. K." replied: Calvin.
This is a very interesting knife. The maker is special. Riexinger, Bad Wildbad. This town is not so far from here, right in the Black Forest. Das ist auch eine Kurstadt. There were always rich people in the past. Riexinger is similar to Brenner and Pelz. So, you really should place a bid. I cannot. It is blocked for Germany.
A real collector piece. T_ _ _ _ _."

I replied: "T _ _ _ _ _,

danke, I could find no information on this maker. Do you have any dates, maybe 1880's to 1910's.

I think this V-messer might go to about $500.00 USD or more.

How high $$$ should I go?

Calvon von eBay"

"Mr. K." replied: Calvin.
I would date it around 1880-1900. My brother has a Riexinger Bauernmesser. Very good quality. Right now, I am not able to buy it. How much should you go? Maybe 700 or 800. This maker is really rare. And from that town of Wildbad in particular. You can think about for maybe 3 days. Then we will see. Collecting is a crazy thing. T _ _ _ _ _."

So, I bid $450.00 which I thought is a lot of money for a V-messer with a blade with a lot of pitting. And won the V-messer for $423.99 + $10.99 S&H with 17 bids for a total of $434.99. I knew that $400.00 would not win the knife and "Mr. K." emailed me that it was a fair price.

The H-RIEXINGER, WILDBAD V-messer has arrived. Blade length 25.3 cm; blade thickness 5 mm; blade width 18mm. Overall length 37.8 cm; folded in sheath 27.5 cm.

I was surprised that the H-RIEXINGER, WILDBAD V-messer is smaller than I had imagined.

I used HOPPES GUN OIL (original with no additives) with cotton balls & Q-tips, to clean the live red rust on the knife. The blade did clean up a little with the HOPPES. It has a dull grey look to the blade.

I will not use any PUMA polish, so as to retain the overall patina. The 1 quillon is slightly bent, I would like to fix it, but I don't' want to break it because the quillon is very thin and is 2 parts, as it is also part on the brass liner.

Photos: 4, V-messer: E. WITTE, TRIER (2 fancy bolsters); H. RIEXINGER, WILDBAD (1 fancy bolster); UNMARKED; LUNA, SOLINGEN (clip blade).

Note that the unmarked knife is similar to the G. HAMMESFAHR Nr. 7033.

C. Wetzel-20609

Hey Wetzel,

Awesome find and a great addition to your already impressive collection. Can't wait to see what you find next! Best!

Mikee,

right now, I am trying to acquire a "J. WETZEL, WILDBAD" billhead for beer, dated April 1941 as a "Go-with" for the H-RIEXINGER, WILDBAD V-messer.

Grab your V-messer, grab a beer and go to WILDBAD.

On 25 Feb. 2024 four Verlangerungsmesser knives were sold on the popular auction site.

#1 Anton Wingen Jr. (1937-1989) Othello head mark, Stag handle, folding guard with sheath, very good condition, 29 bids $189.50.

#2 Heinr Boker & Co. "Baumwerk" listed as parts-repair (lever does not lock in), Stag handle, folding guard, no sheath, damaged blade (electric grinder), 12 bids $167.50.

#3 marked INOX, Stag handle, folding guard, nice German style sheath with bottom metal fitting, very good condition (this example is unusual and may have been made in Spain) 1 bid $144.95.

#4 marked Anton Wingen Jr. over Solingen-Germany, Stag handle, folding guard, with all leather sheath with no belt loop, damaged blade (electric grinder) 1 bid $124.95.

It seems that Feb. 2024 was the "month of the Verlangerungsmesser" on the popular auction site as many examples were listed.

My friend in Germany, "Mr. K." has sent photos of an 18th century French D' Estaing (Verlangerungsmesser in German) acquired by a friend.

This very rare knife does not fold, the blade retracts into the handle like the G. Hammesfahr Nr. 7043. There is a button near the pommel to release the blade.

This very rare knife also has a silver-blade cover, to convert the knife to a silver blade fruit knife. This very rare knife also came with the original leather sheath.

This knife was probably originally owned by wealthy person.

C. Wetzel-20609

-
- SO,, it appears as a fixed blade.


does not fold, the blade retracts into the handle like the G. Hammesfahr Nr. 7043. There is a button near the pommel to release the blade.

has a silver-blade cover, to convert the knife to a silver blade fruit knife. - very rare knife also came with the original leather sheath.

- * So the button releases the blade to the extra / actual full-length blade.. That,is a very nice piece, thanks for the treat of showing us!...,Gaspare

I posted 7 Dec. 2022 on page 1 of this thread:

"This probably early 20th century wood handle Verlangerungsmesser was posted by Colin Davis on 6/10/2007 as "Unknown German hunting knife" on German Daggers.com. The bolster is marked "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" (Legally Protected) with an anchor in between. The term "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" is 1899 or later. Note that this model has a spear blade which is probably before 1945."

On 10 April 2024 one of these Verlangerungsmesser sold on the popular auction site for $229.50 + $10.50 S+H. The blade is marked "GESETZL. GESCHUTZT" over "No 354". Seller notes "The front bolster (ferrule) locks the blade open. The rear bolster (ferrule) locks the blade closed."

This locking device is probably why the bolster is marked "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" (Legally Protected) with an anchor in between. I did not bid on this example; the blade is in good condition with some nicks and the sheath was in poor condition, missing part of the sheath.

***Note that the handle could be horn and not wood. The seller did not note handle material.

C. J. W.-20609