O.K mad Limey alert,
Some of you guys know what a F Dula is others will not, I believe these were first seen in advertisements in the German hunting magazines around 1935 so fairly early in the period, I also have reference to them in Deutsche Jägerschaft(DJ) publications up to 1942, quite who were allowed to wear them is unknown I believe as I have not seen any period reference as to the rules of their wear. If anybody has any information or knows who made them I would love to see it. It is assumed by some who know of these knives that they were made by the firm of Lauterjung & Sohn (Puma), this is probably because they made a set very similar to this post war along with both Eickhorn and Hubertus.
So what is an F.Dula, below is the way they are normally seen, whilst I say normally, I doubt that there are more than 10 sets known within our little community possibly only half that.

What you see above is one set that I own, whatI would point out to you is the unusual rivets through the grip holding the plates on, I don't remember seeing this type of rivet too frequently. Notice also the grips are stag, I suppose for hunting knives it's almost a pre-requisite from this period though there are a couple other materials used though we need not go into them here. It's enough to know that all the other known sets have stag grips, whats the mad limey about now I hear you saying to yourselves, will he just get on with it,well here's something I picked up only last week, came out of Germany, I do not know if they had been in a collection before but I do not think so.

Add to this strange anomoly the markings on the rear of the leather scabbard, a waffenampt in the shape of an eagle and three larger letters can we conclude that these markings and the different grip plates are related, I have checked both of my other scabbards and they are without any markings.

I must say I'm hoping a few of you will give me your opinions, maybe you have seen these rivets or this type of grip plate on other edged weapons, perhaps we can identify the markings on the rear of the scabbard, I think Houston has attributed the eagle mark to the Kreigsmarine, do you agree, anybody know what HFB would stand for, has anybody else got one of these F.Dula's sets either with stag grips or any other types of grips, anything on the rear of the scabbard. For myself I believe the grip plates to be factory applied within the 3rd Reich period, I also believe though I have no proof that these were given or bought for somebody who was in the DJ and also another branch of the services, notice the small DJ badge on the scabbard, it has been there a long time and the two prongs on the reverse have been turned over under the leather, the badge is an original grip emblem seen on the DJ hirschfängers.

Hoping this might pique some interest.

Gary

I would guess that with the waffenampt ( looks more like army in this photo) this piece belonged to the Heer Forst ( Army Forestry Service)
That would take care of the H F. The B I would guess is the location.
Since this piece has plain grips ( cheaper ) that IMO would also go along with the idea that it was Army property.
The emblem was no doubt IMO added by whoever it was issued to.
Very interesting and scarce piece.

I Have many of those hunting mags, some bound by year. Let me check out may period catalogs as I have seen this somewhere. It will take a little time.

An Amazing Knife! With Outstanding Craftsmanship.

Yes, the Post War Made PUMA Model 'White Hunter' - bears a close resemblance.
It was initially intended for the Hunter going on an African Safari, thus the
name.

The PUMA Model 'White Hunter' was discontinued for a while - and now it is back
in the PUMA line with Stag or a newer Composite Grip. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here's the modern Puma lookalike knives, these have been going since the 1950's I believe.

Here's a scan from a 1966/67 catalouge showing Eickhorns products.

I have yet to find a Hubertus catalouge showing their version but I did see a set from this maker for sale in Oct 2007 so I know for sure they made them. Here is a scan of an advertisement in a 1936 Deutsche Jagd hunting magazine.

Gary

Thanks for the information Houston, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Here's a picture of all 3 sets I have together.

Cheers

Gary

well thats another market you seem to have cornered Gary,magnificent as usual!!!
Paul

Big Knives- The top picture is a Alleweek-Waidblatt and the second one is a back to back squirrel Eickhorn.
photo #1

Photo # 2

Photo # 3
I am sorry I fouled up with this large size?

Ralph,

I'm amazed everytime I take a look at your posts. Those are very nice and actually a first for me. I've only seen a similar type in period catalogs. I know this type sure doesn't pop up very often. Heck, it's been about 5yrs since I last saw the Saufanger type hunting knife w/the wider short blade. Should of bought it. If ever I come across another I'm going for it.
I find it very confusing when it comes to Eickhorn marks. Would you know what time frame that mark was used? I would think a rare mark not seen often or is it? Thanks

Mikee, An excellent reference book for maker marks is: THE SWORD AND KNIFE MAKERS OF GERMANY 1850-2000 by Anthony Carter. Fairly new book 2001, so should be able to locate. James

jager,
This early Eick mark, looks like the one on pg 131, mark "18". I wasn't sure that's why I was asking. Not much info on that mark. Thanks again

Here's another F.Dula that I picked up last year, an award given in my opinion by Walter Frevert the director/chairman of the german bloodhound association during this period. There is a mention of a bloodhound group within the 1937 International Jagdausstellung ( hunting exhibition), I believe this knife was awarded at that time during this exhibition.
You may or may not know that the F.Dula is "nach Frevert" or by Frevert who I believe designed the knife during the mid 1930's. The modern Puma knives are still nach Frevert.

The engraving reads

Internationale Schweißhund Verbands- Prüfung 1937
Führerpreis
d. Fachschaft Bayr Gebirgs- Schweißhunde.

International Bloodhound Association-Review 1937
Leaders-prize
from the Technical Board of Bavarian Mountain Bloodhounds

This is definately an early knife, notice the use of the round black studs for the leather ties, normally you would see a leather toggle.

Gary

Gary:

You never cease to amaze!

John

Nice goodies see you at the SOS...

Gary,

A decent F. Dula garners a "wow". This piece rates a "WOW!!!", just superb my friend.

Gary,

As we all know, delights such as this are the result of diligent study and untold hours of effort spent searching... You're hard work and patience seems to have paid off in spades and you've really set the bar way up high for us with this dandy, much continued good luck!

B~

Fabulous score Gary,if possible even better in the flesh. To re-itterate Bills comments, You get out of this hobby what you put in, and you put in so much.
Congratulations

Paul

Gary, as usual -Just Great. Gives me something else to look far and my list is already too long. They do indeed, make up for a fabulous display. Thanks for sharing again and looking forward to seeing you at the SOS. James

Gary & Ralph --- you guys always put up the best photos and they are usually in more then one version -- thanks for sharing your outstanding knives.

These make my Dress Bayonet lame. I don't think I have ever seen one.

All the comments are much appreciated, these are favourites of mine, I look for this style knife more than anything else nowadays but rarely find them, I must thank Rick Schreiber for pointing me in the right direction,he handled the deal for me. I owe you Rick.

Gary

This is my first day on the site and "WHOOPIE"....I have only ever seen two of these sets in person and bought them both Was wondering how I might locate you at the show of shows?

I hope my pics loaded...............roy

Fantastic knives Royboy, I'm leaving this minute for the show, hopefully we can get together.

Gary

I'd always wondered who made these F.Dula's, I came across a written article regarding this matter, it was in German so thanks to Bill Warda who did the translation we now know a little more on this subject.

Abridged Historical Version of Frevert's "Hunter's Blade..."

In his capacity as a high-ranking forestry official, Walter Frevert wished to bring new life to older hunting customs and traditions, towards this objective he wanted to develop a specialized hunting knife that could be used for a wide variety of purposes.

Together with Master-bladesmith and sword-finisher, Otto Dula, who had a modest workshop and retail store in Marburg, (on the Lahn River) that specialized in edged fighting and hunting weapons, Frevert developed a Standhauer, or heavy machete/Bowie-type knife, with a double-sharpened, lower blade edge and spine, towards the tip, thereby creating almost a right-angle effect, in the mid-1930s.

On a fundemental basis this new Hunter's Blade is closely related to the historically known Praxe, a hunting-weapon/tool having a wide, belly-like cutting edge, that is often portrayed as a hunting-knife or tool, used to free large pieces of game meat.

The unique identification features of this Hunter's Blade are best explained in the 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz' (patent-rights) description given to the German Patent Office on May 1936, for (registering) the "Hunter's Blade - to the specifications of - Walter Frevert."

1. The blade of such knife is widened towards the tip...
2. The blade of such Hunting knife is (also) thicker or rounder at the tip...
3. The handgrip is... very short and concise...

Because the Dula Company didn't have the capacity to produce a substantial number of examples, a deal was discussed with the Solingen firm of Richard Abraham Herder, but then the order was placed with the "Pocket-knife and Surgical Instrument Factory, J.E. Dittert" of Neustadt/Saxony, actually produced the order with the maker marking "F.Dula". Due to Second World War shortages, conscription and compulsive labor policies, only a very small number (of these) could be produced. After the war ended the patent-copyrights expired and a number of other producers were eager to add the (sought-after) "Hunter's Blade" to their product lines. In 1950 the Solingen factory of Carl Eickhorn produced an example having its blade marked, "Original Forstmeister Frevert," most likely due to the expired patent. In 1952 the Puma (blade-producing) company legally registered the word-marking "Forstmeister," and in 1956 the name, "Frevert.," thereby causing the Carl Eickhorn knives to be further marked as, "Hunting Knife Original Eickhorn Solingen". Before working together with Frevert, (before 1956) clearly, the Puma Company had copied the pattern and tooling for the Hunter's Blade. Their initial runs were just marked "Puma Werk Solingen * Made in Germany * Puma-Waidblatt * order number. 3588, therefore, without mention of "Forstmeister Frevert."

Dula/Dittert, Eickhorn and Puma were not the only manufacturers of the Hunter's Blade, there were other models that were either partialy or significantly based in form and style to their (forementioned) similar examples.


Gary

Gary:

Great research on some beautiful and scarce items. And, thank you, Willi Warda.

Do you have or have you seen any of the 50's made Carl Eickhorn pieces?

John

John

I've only seen around 4 sets of Eickhorn Waidblatts, I don't remember if there were any marked as the 1950's types, certainly I will be looking from now on.

Cheers

Gary

Sometimes things just happen for a reason, I must be just lucky I suppose, got an E-Mail out of the blue from a guy in Germany saying he had a photograph of an F.Dula in wear, he sent me this picture and has asked me to put it on this forum, his name is Bernd Eitzeroth, he lives just 60 km from Marburg where these were made, this is as far as he knows the only picture of them in wear and he is gracious enough to share it with us.
The picture is of Mr. Rudolf Insterburg from East Prussia, often in the Rominten game reserve with Walter Frevert, he was given the Dula's directly from Walter Frevert.

I think our collective thanks must go out to Herr Eitzeroth for him sharing this fantastic photograph with us, I know he is a frequent visitor to this forum.

Gary

Gary...Thats a great photo!!!

Thank you very much,Gary best regards to all Fans from Hunting in this beautifull Forum

Waidmannsheil

My apologies to Bernd, the guy in the picture is Rudolf Herrenkind not Rudolf Insterburg, Insterburg was a town near Rominten.

Here is the reverse of the above picture.

Thanks again to Bernd.

Gary

Gary,

This has to be one of the best, most interesting "in-wear" photos I've seen. As Herr Eitzeroth mentions the photo is quite rare and I'm pleased he's decided to share with you and all our forum guests. Just recently there were some excellent "in-wear" pictures that were posted in the SS Dagger forum, and now this exceptional photograph. We've been very fortunate to see these new, classic, informative images.

The fact that the silver/green hunting knot could be worn with with the Dula Jagdmesser should be something extra special to those who are interested in German hunting/forestry sidearms - brilliant !

Many thanks to both of you gentlemen for your generousity, sharing this outstanding photo with us.

Best regards and good collecting to everyone!

Bill

Very interesting guys.
Thanks for sharing!

A truely sensational photograph! Thank you for showing it.

Regards,

Now THAT is something you don't see. A rare clear in-wear photo of a scarce F. Dula.
Thank You for sharing.

Here's another variation I just picked up at the 2013 Kassel show, found it tucked away in a small glass cabinet, hard to see at first but as soon as I saw it I knew what it was.
This example is different because it never had a skinning knife, the scabbard is exactly as you would expect, the quality of the leather work and the stitching is superb, everything about it was hand made and stitched. It may or may not have had a top strap at one time, I'm not sure, whatever I still love it.

Gary

A few more

No wonder I cannot find any Dula pieces. Gary has them all. Nice find Gary and love the old leather look. James

Another great pickup Gary, well done! Isn't it so satisfying when you find a variant you weren't expecting? You've turned me into a believer of these pieces!

Nice one Gary!

Next year I'm gonna wear my running spikes!!!
Great score Gary
P

Is that the item we watched you cuddle and caress all day ,then put to bed with you after a few Weiss beers lol .wot about the other beauty you got ,whoops to be continued eh
Dippy

Here's my new addition, this one makes 10 examples of F Dula knives for me now, picked this up from a german gun dealers web site. Probably the best conditioned Dula I have ever seen, this one was definitely never used, the blades still have the factory sharpening.

Gary

A couple more.

Gary,

Never saw one in this condition before, there seem to be no signs of use anywhere. The two blades look like fine, sterile surgical instruments. Beautiful to see them both having their initial sharpening and polish. The leather scabbard is also immaculate and unblemished, it's like looking at a pair of of posh, expensive Italian dress shoes.

Truly an amazing find mate, congratulations.

Best!

Bill

Great find, Gary!

John

Super nice find my friend. I keep looking, but never seem to look in the right place. Good way to end the collecting year Gary. GREAT PIECE James

Gary,

Beautiful knife and you did it again, great find!

Wow Gary, that's a beauty, for sure unissued knife.
Fantastic,congrats
Regards

Considering these were working knives. It's incredible that this set never was touched. Congrats Gary, on finding a real gem!

Well done mate fantastic score, but ten?? what sane collector needs ten??? I may be able to help relieve the problem of course? Lord knows ive been trying long enough!!!!!

Paul:

You can use my approach on these fantastic items... I don't really want any, nor need any nor do I want to collect this stuff....if I keep repeating this to myself, maybe, one day, I will believe it.

Great stuff, gary.

See you at the SOS?

John

Glad you liked it guys, its a treasure for sure

Paul

I have a lead on another one, I'm aiming for at least 1 a year for the next 10 years.

Gary

Wow, looks absolutely brand new - amazing conditioned piece !

Handsome blades, great thread.

--dj--Joe

Super condition for sure..must have been a present that was never used! Hope to find ONE example some day.. Pitiful, isn't it? Lol! Kevin.

Just amazing of how some of these artifacts survive in 'like new' condition.
A great find Gary, Congrats !

Here's a couple more that I have, the piece on the right is very early with a scabbard showing some traits of the standard type but definitely from the factory like this. The piece on the left is another early piece with a great blade dedication on both the main knife and skinner.

Cheers

Gary

Not absolutely sure how many mortal sins I committed whilst reading this thread, but at least I have someone to blame!
Superb my friend

Fantastic very very rare knives.
Beautiful display .
Gary,what is that middle piece ? Can you show us some more pictures please.

Regards

Ivan

The centre piece is a WKC standhauer pattern No 28, a weimar period knife from the mid 1920's, I'll post a few more pictures when I get this group home, I'll be on your side of the pond later this week for a short visit.

Cheers

Gary

I thought I would add a few more pictures of the F Dula on the right of this display, the blade does not have the commonly seen DRGM stamped onto the blade, we can assume from this that it is a piece made prior to the patent of Oct 1936, from the information I have just received from a good friend in Germany these knives were first produced up to a year before the patent was applied, if you add to this the non standard scabbard I believe this piece to be of the initial production run, I think we can safely say that this was also a gift to a forester or hunter close to Walter Frevert, I am in the process of looking for a close confidant of Frevert possibly another dog loving man as Frevert was the leader of the association of German bloodhounds at the time and continued in this capacity for a long time after. The stamped HPL on the rear of the scabbard mount is probably for the manufacturer of the scabbard, I had thought maybe it was something to do with a town or area but cannot find anything about it in that respect.

The other Dula in this display was a gift to the 1st Kreis Jägermeister in Melsungen, his name was Fritz Kaufmann and was the man with the responsibility with upholding the regulations regarding the dogs within the area (Kreis), this also was a gift from Frevert, in fact the grandson of Fritz Kaufmann is the "Forstdirektor bei Fürst Waldeck-Pyrmont and with a friend of mine in Germany has helped with the identification of this knife and the life of Fritz Kaufmann.

G,

A most fantastic collection of these rare hunting sidearms !!

Second to none ... Thanks for taking time to share with us.

Wishing you a great collecting year in 2015.

Bill

I want to thank Bill for all of his hard work, it's his displays you guys are looking at, they are of top quality and show off your collectibles to their best.
Here's another 4 F Dula that are with Bill at the moment waiting to be cased.

Good luck to you as well Bill in 2015, I hope many nice things come your way.

Gary

From the first day Gary showed me his magnificent collection of DULA's, I have wanted one. Finally, some years and an insane amount of money later, I am able to contribute to this thread, thanks to my Mother, God rest her soul..............

Blade of the skinner is superb with all crossgrain and factory edge, whilst the waidblatt is practically as good. A senior hunting knot is attached in original tie, whilst the immaculate scabbard is complete with the original leather toggles. Interestingly the back of the scabbard has very very faint ink markings indicating this was the booty of a Reuben Hamilton,with a capture town of K.W.M?? germany 1945.
Its been a long wait, but worth it!
With apologies for poor picture quality, I just couldnt wait for the best lighting conditions!!

Paul,

It's hard for someone to love the workmanship & quality of German daggers in general & not have an appreciation for what makes up an F. Dula waitblatt. Your example is absolutely beautiful & deserving of a place in your collection. I credit Gary with infecting me with an affinity toward such items now, at a time when I now love all such items. Congratulations on this beauty's acquisition!

I should also point out that it made me laugh that you're apologizing for the less than optimal pictures & lighting. My pictures should be as good on y best day!

Well done, Paul and Gary!

Amazing items in superb condition. I just love to see these being shown.

John

Really a dream knife.
One was for sale in the actual C. Gottlieg's auction but out of the list before the auction beginn.
I'm curious about the current price of such a knife.

An absolutely beautiful piece. Also wonder what they cost?

Wow best one I think I have ever seen with my limited experience . Did baz help you find it ,where is it from.True quality piece fits in that mint collection .Well done I'm sure mum would be happy to know you're happy.
Dippy

Hello Paul, you show us an extremely nice F.Dula! I am green of collector´s envy . It is clear why these cannot be found at german shows - because they are all elsewhere...

I hope you understand a joke and my deep appreciation.

BTW: this is no "senior hunting knot" but a rare "professional hunter´s knot" opposite to the green colored (where this knot has brown color) DJägerschaft membership knot.

Congratulations to this extraordinary find!

Regards,

Paul
Not sure how I missed this for so long, well you finally got one and what an example it is, rivals anything I have for sure, certainly one of the best out there, the professional hunters knot is such a bonus, it doesn't matter what you paid in the end as long as you like it, that's what collecting is all about. Now you need to find another.

Gary

Thanks guys, I'm mega pleased with this piece!, after looking for so long to find one this good ,well it's what this hobby is all about., a great feeling of satisfaction.
And Gary your so right my friend, the search will never cease!!!

Tom Wittmann has one for sale @ $1995.00.

Yes, since days, but condition is VERY poor.
Regards,

I saw Tom's one at the SOS before he bought it, I turned it down because of the condition and I do not turn these things down often.

Gary

Really an interesting and rich thread to read through.

It's interesting to me that Paul's piece has a professional hunters knot on it and I believe it is original to the piece, also the picture in wear that is shown earlier in this thread shows a standard green accented hunting knot, I have a couple that have DJ badges on them, one let into the grip and one members pin on the scabbard of another, it's easy to assume that these knives were for the DJ members only but I don't believe that to be the case, at least some were awarded and some given as gifts, I do suspect though that most were bought by DJ members, I also think further information will come to light as more of these are seen, if anybody can add further examples to this thread I'd love to see them, I have been asked a few times about how many of these were produced, I wish I knew and have no real idea, they are tough to find in any sort of condition and I thought long and hard before turning down the one that is now on Tom Wittmann's site.

Gary

I can confirm that this piece has the set in place look of a knot that's been there for a very long time, but judging by it's almost mint state I guess the owner was more an administrator than a hunter!
As an aside, I've been pondering the F.DULA maker mark. Theory: We know Walter Frevert approached Otto Dula to manufacture this knife, taking out a patent with him in 1936, prior to the manufacture being taken over by the Dittert concern. So why not O DULA?. Unless WAlter also wanted his stamp on the design, but finding 'FREVERT DULA ' to be to long to fit the narrow ricasso,It was shortened to F.DULA??
Thoughts?
Paul

Paul

I believe it was Friedrich Aloysius Dula the Father of Otto Dula whom the company was named after.

Gary

Ah dear old Friedrich! Now we know! thanks Gary I've been wondering for a while-should have gone straight to the top and saved all that brain power LOL
P

I do have some more information regarding these knives but it is in German and I need to get it translated first. I do know that the scabbards were produced with and without the pocket for the skinner by the firm of Hruby from Hachenburg, I need to research this firm as well.

Gary

It's taken me some while to go through all my period advertising to find this but it proves that these things were sold with and without skiing knives.
The first picture is from a period hunting magazine(Deutsche Jagd) from May 1936, I believe this is prior to the date of the patent but does show that these knives were produced earlier on in 1936. It also does not have the DRGM stated as does the 2nd advert which would make sense prior to the patent.
The second picture is from the same hunting magazines but dated December 1938, it clearly shows a different advert and has an option to sell without the small knife.
I do wonder in the first advert the meaning of the (2 31*), would that possibly mean that you could get a discount down to RM31 if you bought two of these????

Gary

period reference goodies is the best!!!!

good job Gary

James, yes without doubt period reference is the best, just looking at the 2nd advert again helps me determine what I had always thought about this particular Dula and the markings on the rear,
The advert states these knives were
Das Gebrauchsmesser des Forst-beamten

"HFB"
Heer Forst beamten

I'd always thought the chequered grips on this piece were specially ordered at the time.

Thanks

Gary

Just found this great book written by Walter Frevert who designed the F Dula knife, there is one picture in it showing what I believe is a very early F Dula knife, the book is dated July 1935 so over a year prior to the patent. What is interesting about this picture is the use of metal mounts on the scabbard similar to the example I show, I've looked for a long time to prove that this type of scabbard is original to the knife and that they used these type of mounts on the early F Dula's.

Gary

wow Gary,that is really beautiful scabbard, of course including the dagger, what a find,congrats

Just awesome Gary seeing that period ad, that is one hell of a find.
About that initial production F.Dula Waidbesteck: IMO the best scabbard ever on a F.Dula.

Regards
Ger

I'm up to No 14

Gary

last couple

Close up of the name on the skinner.

Thanks for showing, Gary. Merry Christmas.

Dave

Thanks Dave
This is the first time I have come across one of these without either F. Dula or DRGM or both on the blade of either the skinner or main knife, I presume the name is of the original owner and he ordered it that way.

Merry Christmas to you to

Gary

Lovely addition Gary!
Again it shows we havent seem all there is!!
I was Lucky enough to add a few myself this year, they are impressive!

Ger

Appreciate the images. Congrats. and thanks.

--dj--Joe

I came accross this one some time ago, its an early one, so without the D.R.G.M. marking.
Set is in stone mint condition, has the early left knot strap and whats even more interesting it has as pigskin scabbard, sofar the first one for me.

Regards
Ger

Ger
Wow, what a super set, and the condition, fantastic.
What a great find. You have done it Again.
Clearly shows where Puma got the White Hunter.
Congrats
Ed

That is a beautiful set, Ger.

Congratulations.

John

I just opened up a parcel from Germany containing 3 F.Dula's, love these great hunting sets.
Also an overview with a large bowie which has a Dula scabbard, that one is only marked with: Handwerk
I was able to buy the 3 Dula's from a friend of a hunting blades collector who passed away recently.
He also had an exact same Bowie in the same pattern Dula scabbard, so there has been made at least a small batch of these Bowies having Dula scabbards.

Best
Ger

Looks like what you’d see in an F. Dula museum, if one were ever to exist. What a mix of colors and stag textures. Great work Ger!

Question? What is the current time frame that collectors think F. Dula made these blades. 1930s to????

James

From the little information that I have been able to piece together and from dated examples I have I would say from 1935-????, who knows when the last one was produced, probably early war time either 1940 or 41. I'd be interested in any information on production dates you may have in your archives as there is not much out there on them.
We do know that there are some early post war Eickhorn examples out there but I have not heard of any F Dula marked examples either post war or pre 1935 but who really knows?.

Gary

I have not posted answer.
Dula was still in business in the 1960s and assembling these knives.
Have many entries where they are also buying parts and weidblatt blades from Solingen firms in the 60s
Yes Dula was making these up until the 60s... No doubt about it. This posting is not a opinion it is fact.
Also as most know Horster, Eickhorn, Puma, Hubertus, Linder and a few others made this (style) postwar. I'm sure this has been posted already.
Early post war Eickhorns have blade stamped by hilt with trademark etc.. Modern Eickhorns 1970s on do not have this stamp..
Can currently buy a new one from Puma or Hubertus.. And new scabbard overstocks always for sale on E-bay.

IMO the F.Dula marked knives are all pre War time; never saw one that was post war.
Only the marked Eickhorn, Puma and Hubertus ones are post war ones.

I am not confident how to post pics; will ask my son later...
Important is to know that the period DULA knives are marked DRGM; ( Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster )
DRGM was used from 1891 till end of WWII on military objects and arms; Sometimes till 1952 for music instruments and toys.
It was a way for inventors to register a product's design in all states within Germany, and protect their design and item for maximum a period of 6 years ( two times 3 years )
As patent fees in Germany were extremely high ( 35 times higher than USA ) many designers or small munufacturers choose to go for that limited copyright.
Items stamped with DRP ( Deutsches Reichspatent) were protected for 15 years.
Conclusion on the DULA knifes stamped DRGM : from around 1935; till 1941....

I will quickly correct a few misconceptions regarding F Dula knives the main one being that they were all stamped with the DRGM mark, I can say without a doubt that not all F Dula knives are marked with DRGM only those produced after the patent date of September 1936, anything that was made prior to that date was not stamped with DRGM and as far as I am aware no F Dula waidblatt/waidbesteck as we know them were produced post war though it is clear that Friedrich Dula did continue to produce knives post war though not of this type.

If you look back in this thread you will see at least two Dula's that I have that are not DRGM stamped, you will also see a page from a book by Frevert dated 1935 where he shows a picture of a Dula with metal scabbard mounts, this one would have been without the DRGM mark as they were not patented by this time.

Gary

yes Garry ; that sounds logic :
non marked DRGM is early
marked DRGM from 1936 till 1942...

Posting these comparison shots for Philippe of his F Dula and a very early post war Eickhorn Waidblatt.

Gary

James

You kindly showed me a page from your files showing Dula was producing knives into the 1960's but as far as I recall it never mentioned Waidblatts, I do know you like to keep things to yourself regarding your reference material and I respect that but it would help this thread enormously if we could at least see some evidence of this, the type of reference material you have from F Dula as you are aware is not currently available to download from the Internet as I have been looking for years to add to my own reference regarding these knives, I leave it to you if you decide you want to enlighten us with these startling and very new facts regarding this blade smith.

Gary

Gary the little snippet of information I sent you was a favor to you and to tell you to be careful..
Gary you have had experiences with me. I believe I'm very generous with some collectors to a fault and you know it is not (ALL) about money with me..
Questions that need to be answered before a opinion can be posted stating that F. Dula did not make any of these knives postwar.
What year did F. Dula stop business??? 40s 50s 60s 70s . And if he was still in business after the war what kind of knives did he sell , make or assemble??
Do you believe it was pocket knives ,small hunting knives ?? Joke... What style knife was F. Dula known for??
Always finding new information and I know it can be upsetting if not on internet.. But we as collectors ALL have information we do not share because we have invested to much time and money to give it away. Funny in the same ledger I can tell you how much Jim Atwood spent with Eickhorn and the dates.

Careful over what James, I've disclosed nothing other than you sent me a page from your files, I haven't released any detailed information from that page, you know if you send me anything I will not disclose any details from it.
I don't think we are playing a game here, how would I know what year Dula stopped making knives or went out of business, if it's not on the Internet or readily available for viewing then I would have to guess and probably be wrong, you are the only person on the planet that can answer those questions.

I fully understand just how much time, effort and money you have spent amassing your reference material but if your not going to at least provide the basic information then what is the point in collecting this reference or even even mentioning it in the first place, it's very frustrating that you tantalise us with these questions knowing full well that we do not know the answer, only you can decide how much you are willing to release publically and with all real collectors it's never about the money, you know this, I don't give a damm about what things cost, for me reference material is all about sharing and advancing the hobby so we can all learn so unless you are going to reproduce and sell the copies to collectors we are going to go around in circles and I don't want to play those games especially when these knives and their history is so important to me.

Please remember that as far as I know Freidrich Dula only produced the blades and the knife was put together by JE Dittert out of Marburg so I presume that if Dula was producing blades after the war then could he not have been producing the blades for any number of companies, perhaps these other companies who assembled these knives preferred to have their name on the blade so unless you have that kind of information then it's pure conjecture that he produced Dula's after the war with his name on it. Do you have the information that he produced and marked Waidblatts with his name post war?? did he make them to exactly the same specification??, if you have that sort of information I think you should at lease provide us with the specifics.

You have to do something with all this reference material you have, you cannot just hoard this, you even mention that it can be upsetting if the information is not on the internet, it's about as frustrating as it gets for me knowing that the information is within my grasp but it's never going to be disclosed, I know you understand just how important your reference files could be, the balls in your court, we have been through this many times and yet you still amass more and more and do nothing with it that I know of, I am more than willing to pay for the information I need about these knives if that's what you want.

Gary

(Be careful..)
This refers to buying F. Dula items thinking they are all made before 1945
That is what (be careful ) means.. Not a threat at all.. Again just giving you a heads up...

Hay Guys
So is that "The Twist"
This has been he most informative thread on the site, to me at least. I love these knives, but do not own one, yet.
Thank you all for your post and information. Knowing the history behind the knives is all that makes them great.
There were millions of daggers, but the Dula's are far and few. You guys have many of them. Thanks.
I get kind of excited when I see a early Puma White Hunter at a gun show.
Ed

Gary and other posters on this thread. Believe me I'm more frustrated than you are.. I have to find a outlet to get the information out there and yet keep the VALUE of what I have collected . That is complicated and time consuming. Would collectors buy a series of factual articles or books???
Gary I will no longer post on a thread if I'm not willing to share ALL the information I have on that subject..

P.S. I do not have information on how knives were marked by F. Dula after 1945

Just appeared on WAF - used in Vietnam !

This used and abused, F. Dula Waidblatt arrived on May 26, 2023, from Montana. The small F. Dula Jagdnicker is missing. The Waidblatt with sheath cost just under $445.00 with free shipping.

The back of the sheath loop does not have the "buttonhole". The F. Dula with the 1937 date that Gary posted also looks to be missing the "buttonhole" on the back of the sheath loop.

The front of the sheath is rather plain with no decoration on the top of the sheath or the pocket for the Jagdnicker. The actual color of the sheath is a very dark brown.

My special thanks to Gary for all the F. Dula schooling. Also, thanks to Bill Warda, Royboy, Paul, Gerrit, Dave and all those that made comments on this thread.

Best Regards, C. Wetzel-20609.

Interesting Dula, you got to get whatever you can with these knives, they are so rare, this one has been through the ringer for sure though it is a nice example, the blade looks to have been reground, good luck on finding a small knife for it, the sheath is a rare type without any decoration on it but it does have the "v" shape on the top of the pocket for the small knife, the scabbard does looks to be very similar to the one I show, only the 2nd one without the buttonhole I've ever seen.

Congrats on finding an original example.

Gary

Thank you, very kindly Gary,

I did notice the V-shape notched Nicker pouch but did not mention it, I should have.

I don't expect to find the matching Nicker but who knows as I never thought I would find an F. Dula or one I could afford.

Here are close-up pictures of the V-shape notched Nicker pouch and the F. Dula maker's mark.

C. Wetzel-20609

Looks like a great find to me, so, no nicker, but a super find at less than $450.
Wish I could find one.
Ed

Gary noted "the blade looks to have been reground" he is correct.

It would appear that this knife had at one time some rust and light surface pitting, and someone removed the rust with a fine belt grinder.

Then someone using a medium-course belt grinder tried to sharpen the blade. The result is a collector's nightmare with deep scratches that go over the center ridge line.

Tiny pitting marks are still evident on the top of the blade.

The pictures of the knife for sale were not very clear but I could tell it was messed with. I still put in a bid over $600.00 to win this rare knife.

And Ed, keep looking and maybe someday you will find a nicer F. Dula, and your wish will come true.

C. Wetzel-20609.

I found this undated image of a German Waidblatt with sheath and small skinning knife by E. & F. Horster. I found this image on the Hubertus products site.

The Hubertus Waidblatt set was made in cooperation with Carl Eickhorn, and both the Hubertus and Carl Eickhorn Waidblatt have a spacer between the stag handle and the guard.

It would appear that the prototype by Frevert shown in the July 1935 book posted by Gary, also had this spacer but is missing on the F. Dula marked Waidblatt.

Waidblatt, F. Dula, Marburg (Lahn) advertisement placed in the 23 Dec. 1938 issue of "Deutsches Waidwerk".

Nice!! this is some topic too! Gets better all the time..


I nominate Baz and C. W. 20609 for one of those 'Good Topic badges" !!

Please give Baz (Gary) all the credit for this thread. He is the teacher, and I am his student.

I first learned about the F. Dula, Waidblatt from the site of T. T. Wittmann (UNMARKED F. DULA), about two years ago.

However, after I read about this "F Dula with a twist" thread on German Daggers.com and bought an F. Dula for myself, I learned from Gary's information here that the "UNMARKED F. DULA" offered by T.T. Wittmann is actually probably an unmarked or marker's mark removed, Eickhorn product.

I informed T. T. Wittmann who said he would remove the Waidblatt from his site on 26 May 2023. However, Wittmann's # 39820, "UNMARKED F. DULA" is still listed on his site for $3,250.00. I still have the utmost respect for the knowledge of T. T. Wittmann. We all have made mistakes because "research is subject to change".

Reply of May 26, 2023, from T. T. Wittmann:

"Dear Mr. Wetzel,

Well, I guess I am pleased to receive your email concerning the F. Dula
that I thought was period. With the research you have sent, I have no doubt
that my example is post-war, which explains its differences from the period
pieces. Well, there goes $3000 out the window - damn. No matter how long
we are in this hobby, no one always knows everything and I don't think a day
goes by that I don't learn something new in this interesting and somewhat
difficult hobby.

Well, thanks for letting me know. I'll take the Dula down from our website.

Best,

Thomas T. Wittmann"

Hi, I've 2 of these made by Eickhorn after war. More rare than the Puma waidblatt version.
I can post photos if it can have an interest in this thread.

JC

Back in March 2015 on this "F Dula with a twist" thread someone stated: "I'm curious about the current price of such a knife". The reply was "Tom Wittmann has one for $1995.00".

So, I did some research on the F. Dula sales in the past.

On 9/22/2009 a good used set sold for the Buy it Now price of $1164.49 on the popular auction site. The set came from the son of a WWII Veteran and can be seen on the Worthpoint site also.

On 2010-07-01 another used set sold for $610.00.

As noted, in 2015 Tom Wittmann's # 37099 set was listed for $1995.00 with a Waidmesser in poor condition, and a damaged sheath that was cut short and modified.

About Jan 2023, an F. Dula Waidblatt with Waidmesser pocket removed from the sheath and missing Waidmesser sold for 11,000 CZK ($483.45).

In May 2023 my F. Dula Waidblatt with a rare "no-button hole" sheath, but a grinded, damaged blade, and missing Waidmesser sold to me for $441.99.

And now there is the single F. Dula Waidblatt like Gary's that never had the pocket for the Waidmesser on the sheath listed for 3,250 Euros ($3,487.57).

The best examples posted on this "F Dula with a twist" thread are probably in the $4000.00-$6000.00 & up range, but this is only my guess.

PS I have also seen an image of an F. Dula set that sold (no price listed) as a PUMA Waidbesteck set. Did the person really know what they bought was a rare, F. Dula set or where they disappointed that it was not a PUMA set?


C. Wetzel-20609

Correction:

The Tom Wittmann #37099 F. Dula sheath was not cut short. The metal ring is missing from the sheath.

DULA family grave site from the Find A Grave web site. I would believe that Oberstleutnant a.D. Hans Friedrich Dula (1913-1992), was Otto Dula's son?

Otto Dula
BIRTH
unknown
DEATH
unknown
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany

Marie Dula
BIRTH
unknown
DEATH
unknown
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany
Inscription
ZUM GEDENKEN AN
OTTO UND MARIE
DULA


Oberstleutnant a.D. Hans Friedrich Dula
BIRTH
18 Apr 1913
DEATH
23 Nov 1992 (aged 79)
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany

Alwine von der Heyde Dula
BIRTH
9 May 1917
DEATH
10 Mar 2011 (aged 93)
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany



C. Wetzel-20609, contributor on the Find A Grave web site.

Hello all ,

please have a look on my DULA recently entered in my collection of hunting knives :

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7301/9Kd0Vr.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3618/M2vYrW.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/931/lOq443.jpg

after a Waidbesteck , a simple Waidblatt would be fully appreciated = S+

Seppi
It looks nice, it would be better if you could post these pictures and anymore that you care to add directly on the forum.

Try this for a resizer if you need it. http://www.picresize.com/

Gary

Hello Seppi, Baz69 is qite right, there are also forum directions which do request the direct integration of pics to the forum because once the pics are gone from a link any thread is worthless.
So or one I did integrate your pics here directly.
Btw very nice DULA with attached Knicker! congratlations to your rare find.
Regards,

Seppi, congratulations on a rare find.

To quote Baz69 (Gary), "The sheath is a rare type without any decoration on it, but it does have the "v" shape on the top of the pocket for the small knife".

My question to you Seppi is, does the sheath have the buttonhole on the back of the sheath loop?


Best regards, C. Wetzel-20609

Hello C.Wetzel ,

Very sorry to have missed your question about my DULA .

No hole on the back of the sheath but only the ring to wear the knife by mean of the hook .

Being a newbee I do not know how to insert a picture in spite of the councils given to new forumers .

Thanks also to Wotan for having included larger pictures .

Best regards = Seppi +

Hi again ,

a picture more to answer to C.Wetzel ... again with imageshack : sorry !

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2882/oOWwvk.jpg

Seppi +

Thank you Seppi, "No hole on the back of the sheath".

I thought that it might not have the buttonhole because it is plain, with no decoration on the front of the sheath, like mine.

That makes 3 known F. DULA sheaths without the buttonhole.

C. Wetzel-20609

Here is the picture from Seppi on 01/09/2024. I used "Web capture" and "Microsoft picture manager" to post this image.

This is an enjoyable and praiseworthy thread.

--dj--Joe

Seppi. Try this.
Photo posting procedure.
Under the reply or post window, you will see "File Manager". Click it to open a window that lets you browse your computer for photos. When you find one, double click it to get the name in the box, and click "Add File". Repeat as needed, then click "Done Adding Files". When you click the "Submit" button, the files will be loaded to the forum. Users can load up to 5 photos at a time, Premium Members and moderators can add up to 10 photos at a time. This is not available in the "Quick Reply" window at the bottom of a thread.

Many thanks *derjager* for helping me but my problem is that the mention "File Manager" does not appear on my screen , I tried many times and no result unfortunately ... I think then that it's a software bug ?

Szppi+
<

For C.Wetzel ,

Hello , ref your last question :



with my kind regards and to test a new mean of inserting pics = Seppi +

Seppi,
It works best IMO when you click on, Use Full Editor. (Below the quick reply box).

Thank you Seppi,

your photo showing the back of the F. DULA sheath, does confirm, "No buttonhole on sheath loop".


C. Wetzel-20609

It's the "Attachment Manager" and only appears on the "Use Full Editor" screen.

Who wants an F. DULA with nuts? (note Waidblatt handle decorated with oak leaves and acorns).

This example was listed as a WW2 Third Reich Bowie and is from an auction in 2019.

They note the skinner knife is not original to the set in their opinion.

On May 28, 2023, Baz69 (Gary) posted: "good luck on finding a small knife for it." Well, today I had some good luck.

The F. DULA Waidmesser I have been longing for should arrive by March 7, 2024. The knife was found on the popular auction site for the "buy-it-now" price of $349.95 with free S+H.

The knife is used and rusted but I don't care, it is good enough for me. A good cleaning is overdue for this rare knife. Maker's mark on tang is F. DULA with D. R. G. M. on the other side of tang.

The seller noted the knife comes with the original sheath. Well, we will have to see about that, the sheath does look to be German and has some marks on the outside edge of the snap button stud.

Happy regards, C. Wetzel-20609

SWEET, I love it when a plan comes together.
Congrats,
Ed
PS, be sure to show us that knife when you get it.

Wetzel,

Congratulations!

What a great find, personally I would not dismiss this sheath as being original, we do not know what occured during the period, they could have sold a few skinning knives seperately though I have never seen nor heard of one.

Gary

After some research on the snap fastener stud design, on the sheath sold with the F. DULA Waidmesser, I now believe the design is known as "Meander" (or Greek Key), a decorative border design.

This type of snap fastener stud design is found on some probably 1950's to 1960's American brand knives such as WESTERN, IMPERIAL & SHAPLEIGH sheath knives.

Although 1950's to 1960's OLSEN sheath knives (imported from Solingen) used the type of leather sheath shown with the F. DULA Waidmesser, the snap fastener stud has no design.

The snap fastener was invented by a German in 1885. An early German snap fastener stud design is the 4-pointed star (also known as a "snowflake") used from at least 1915 to late 1930's. The Germans also used a plain brown snap fastener stud on WW1 knives and a plain snap fastener stud was used on the Hitler youth knives. Some photos of the Hitler youth on German Daggers.com shows that some members also used leather sheaths.

The F. DULA Waidmesser probably did not come originally with the sheath as claimed by the seller, but I do have a nice original leather sheath for that F. DULA Waidmesser with an F. DULA Waidblatt to complete the set.

My thanks to ed773, Mikee and Baz69 (Gary) for the kind words. I will be counting the days until I get to remove the rust on that blade.

C. Wetzel

Wetzel,

Awesome, Please show us some pictures when done.

Wetzel,

Awesome, Please show us some pictures when done.

The F. DULA Waidmesser arrived 6 March 2024 from Rome, New York at about 12:30 PM.

The F. DULA Waidmesser (Hunter's knife) cleaned up after about two hours of work on the blade with HOPPES Gun Oil (the original with no additives), very fine steel wool, fine stone, PUMA polish and Ren. wax. Blade now has some dark spots but no live red rust.

Issues: blade has dark spots with some minor tiny pitting, top of pommel is damaged from being used as a hammer and a very tiny 2 mm piece of stag handle is missing near the guard (F. DULA marked side).

Some collectors have given names to their knives, swords and daggers. Since the Waidblatt was buffed and the Waidmesser was rusty when they came to me, I will name the pair "Buffy & Rusty".

"Buffy & Rusty" may be the worst set of F. DULA knives known because of the abuse they have received. It is a thrill to handle these RARE, well-made knives.

As Baz69 (Gary) has noted " you got to get whatever you can with these knives, they are so rare."

The sheath sold with this F. DULA Waidmesser is for a WESTERN Nr. L48A knife.

C. Wetzel-20609

UPDATE: The single F. Dula Waidblatt like Gary's that never had the pocket for the Waidmesser on the sheath listed for 3,250 Euros ($3,487.57) has been sold.

The 2023 listing for this single F. DULA Waidblatt noted "less than 50 made" and on another site the "Saufaengerkid" aka Baz69 (Gary) thought that number (50) was too low and no known source to verify the number made. The "Saufaengerkid" said he has 14 and knows of another 20. The "Saufaengerkid" guessed the true number of F. Dula Waidblatt knives made, as being in the hundreds.

However maybe the number of F. DULA knives sold with the single sheath is less than 50 because I have only seen two shown.

C. Wetzel-20609

This Waidblatt was once in my collection, i have owned 12 sets in the past.

Ger

Thanks for the information Gerrit1963. I found your 2019 post and photos of the F. DULA Waidblatt and rare single sheath you owned on the War Relics Forum.

Your 2019 post also mentioned the F. DULA Waidblatt was marked with D. R. G. M. and photos show original securing strap on the front of the sheath and on the back of the sheath, buttonhole on sheath loop.


C. Wetzel-20609

Hello all ,

The DULA recently shown by C-Wetzel is since 2 weeks blocked up by the french Customs without any reasons ... and this in spite of a claim from the previous owner located in Belgium and of course many phone calls from my side !

No responsible postman or customer are able to explain what is the misfit 😢

Bad situation not comfortable at all , I will keep you informed on the final solution = S+

From what I have read, Customs in certain countries can delay, confiscate or even destroy an object such as Thomas T. Wittmann's SS overcoat in Australia.

Another story in Canada had a happy ending after several months of waiting.

I found this about the seller's site: "Proantic is a website dedicated to professional antique dealers, created in November 2009." " Proantic the first French antique website."

Seppi, I hope this story has a happy ending for you, good luck.

Hi JL, I hope you'll receive your nice knife very rapidly now.
The seller is serious and there isn't any reason that the custom confiscate it...any Hakenkreuz on this knife or something that can explain a custom problem.
Bon courage!

JC

Hello Sirs ,

I appreciate your comments and wishes for an happy end for this poor knife ...

As far as I know no prohibited sign as a swaz is engraved on this kind of Waidblatt then nothing can explain such a delay excepted a lazzy postal dpt .

S+

Post WW2 Waidblatt sets sold by Eickhorn, Hubertus and Puma have leather sheaths sewn with green thread.

Thomas T. Wittmann's, # 39820 Deluxe Hunting Cutlass with Skinner - F. Dula (Unmarked) is clearly an Eickhorn / Hubertus product, still listed for sale and also has an Eickhorn / Hubertus leather sheath sewn with green thread.

The F. Dula set shown by Baz69 (Gary) on 11/30/2014 "F. Dula with a twist" page 2, Gary's 10th set, is noted as from a "German gun dealers' site, never used" and appears to have a genuine F. Dula leather sheath sewn with green thread.

Gary is the mint condition F. Dula leather sheath from the German gun dealer sewn with green thread and is it the only one?

Yes the one that is listed on TW website is an Eickhorn after war production.
I've one for sale. More rare than the waidblatt made by Puma.

I for one, and I'm sure all, would like to see the one for sale, and know the asking price.

3250USD here:
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/39820.htm

Mine is cheaper

The F. Dula set shown by Baz69 (Gary) on 11/30/2014 "F. Dula with a twist" page 2, Gary's 10th set, is noted as from a "German gun dealer's site, never used" and appears to have a genuine F. Dula leather sheath sewn with green thread.

Gary, please tell us, is the mint condition F. Dula leather sheath from the German gun dealer sewn with green thread and is it the only one?


C. Wetzel-20609

- * That really is some nice looking and functional knife set especially like this!

Hey G,

Very nice! How are the blades?

Blade

I believe the serrations on the small Eickhorn Jagdnicker blade in the photo above is a variation of the "Original Eickhorn" Jagdnicker blade.

Gents this post is about F.Dula's, would be nice to keep it that way.
I think these post war Waidbestecke do not do justice to the beauties Gary posted.
My suggestion would be to start a separate post for these post war knives.

Best
Ger

I agree with Gerrit1963, let's get back to the topic of this thread.

Gerriit1963, you have owned 12 of these F. DULA Waidblatts, please tell us, of the F. Dula leather sheaths you owned were any sewn with green thread?

C. Wetzel-20609

Yes, they did use green thread and green dyed leather, sun and use bleaches it to the original brown leather colour.
Here you see the back is still greenish with green thread while its front has no green left at all after years of use/sunlight.

Cheers,
Ger

Hi all ,

two lines to tell you that after 21 days of punishment within the french customs I received the Dula Waidblatt in perfect condition.

Thanks to you for your kind support during my 3 weeks of stress . 😊 = S+

On page 4 of this thread, I posted:

"F. DULA with nuts? (note Waidblatt handle decorated with oak leaves and acorns)." "This example was listed as a WW2 Third Reich Bowie and is from an auction in 2019."

This example also has the sun / weather faded thread color and brown leather color on the front of the sheath and the dark green leather color with green colored thread on the back of the sheath.

Thanks again to Gerrit1963 who explained the reason (sun and weather) for this leather and thread color difference.

C. Wetzel-20609