Fellow collectors, I have over 30 Pack etched bayonets and would like to start a thread to share them with you.
I intend to show them in the following order:
By Pack catalogue etch number.
Ovals
Non-listed etches.
In some cases, I will have the same unit dedication on two different etch patterns and will devote some time at the end to show them together.
I hope that you will be interested in this. It will take me several days or more to do this properly. I will also, as much as possible, be indicating where this etch is pictured in Wayne Techet's great book, and my etched bayo bible, German Etched Dress Bayonets. I cannot recommend this book highly enough for anyone who wishes to collect etched bayonets.
John
John, I always thought that you specialize on Eickhorns
Your collection is unbelievable.
Thanks for showing to us.
Regards
Stingray
Very Nice.....Thanks for the show!
This etch is only pictured in Wayne's book as part of the catalogue from Pack on page 142.
I cannot show you this etch since this is the one numbered pattern that I do not (yet) have in my collection.
Wish me well on my hunt.
John
The last of the numbered etches in the Pack catalog is the No 14 small anti tank gun etch. Examples of the large one, the No 2 etch, can be relatively easily found vs this one.
The small versions of the etches probably did not sell well which means that there were fewer of them around to begin with.
This etch is on a long, spanner bolted bayonet with the small TM and is a single etch version.
Have you noticed that all of the small picture etches (the Nos 7, 8, 10, 12 and this one) all have the small Pack TM?
Now, that's it for the numbered etches from the Pack catalogue (I sure wish that I had a No 9 Small Panzer to show, but c'est la vie as they say in La Belle Provence).
Later, I will be starting back up with the unnumbered etches and ending with the Ovals.
I hope that you are enjoying this thread.
John
Three of the biggest makers of etch pattern bayonets did not sell their etches to other blade makers. The three are Eickhorn, Puma and Pack. Holler and Klaas, the other big etch makers did sell certain of their etch patterns in pretty defined business relationships. To learn more about this, read Wayne's book.
So, one of the 'tells' when you look at etched bayonets is to see if the etch pattern and the blade manufacturer make sense. You will never find an Eickhorn etch on a Pack TM bayonet, for example. This is pretty easy for the big three, not so obvious for the others.
However, like any rule, there has to be an exception. In this case, it is the Pack Unnumbered Neutral etch that we just looked at, but it is on a Josef Hack marked blade. Can this be wrong? Not if you have Wayne's book. Look on page 194 and you will see this exact etch pattern but on a Hack-Werk Steyr marked bayonet.
This is a short, single etched, riveted bayonet. Note, however, that the rivets are offset as though they were on Packs, but using rivets instead of the spanner bolts.
Also note the neat Hack fish TM.
John,
Your collection is always outstanding. And it's been a pleasure to watch it grow. I've been to Canada three or four times in my life. Vancouver, twice, east coast, once if I remember right. How about we do the SOS next year, if I can make it. And we'll see if we can get some other guys to go along with. I'll make it a point to get up to your neck of the woods to see your collection some day. Houston has a collection I'd love to see. I've got a thing for the honor bayonettes. Unfortunately, I only have one. It's a first war and doesn't bring the cash like a second war would.
Thanks for some of the previews I've been able to see. I can't wait to see your collection.
Steve
Steven:
I would love to have you visit and share my collection with you.
I typically try to do the shows. Right now, I have booked the MAX in Sept, haven't yet booked the SOS next year. It would be great to see you and the rest of the bayo guys at any time in any place.
And, thank you for your kind words on my collection.
I only have a few Packs left to show.
John
The Oval Panzer etch is one of the hardest etch patterns to find.
The pattern itself is pictured in Wayne's book on page 155.
The actual bayonet that I am showing here is pictured in the book, German Clamshells and Other Bayonets, by Gary Walker and Ron Weinand on pages 62-63.
This bayonet is on a short blade, is double etched, has the usual spanner bolts and sports the small Pack TM.
The reverse dedication is to the name 'Hermann Weiser' and the lettering to this is in gold.
This, too, came from Ron Weinand. I think that the mortgage I needed to take out to buy this is almost paid off now
It is a real beauty and surely a one-of-a-kind. BTW, the Oval Panzer is my avatar that I have used on GDC for the past year.
John,i think you've the best Pack collection in the world.
Thanks for showing to us.
Stingray
I also have a double etched version of the C31 Oval.
This is pictured in Wayne's book on page 66.
The one pictured and the one I have are the same. It came from Ron Weinand as well.
And, it is on a long blade, is double etched, stag gripped, spanner bolted with the small Pack TM.
The reverse dedication is to a 'Willy Langenberg' and is gold filled.
When you compare the two C31 Ovals, see the difference? The double etched piece does not have the C31 markings that the single etched one does.
Neat stuff.
The very last, for now, etch that I have to show is a double etched Oval Pioniere.
This is a very interesting etch. On the obverse, it has the Neutral No 11 etch dedication to Inf Regt 3. On the reverse, it has the Oval Pioniere unit by itself.
It is a long blade, double etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.
I picked this little baby up from my favourite Canadian dealer, Paul Hogle.
That's it, boys and girls. Until I get more Packs, I have shown you everything that I have.
I hope that you are enjoying this as much as I have enjoyed showing them to you.
Keep well, my friends,
John
I owned this etch for a short while last year.
Originally from Paul Hogle, it is a long blade, single etched, spanner riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.
It also exhibits no markings on the fuselage, like my double etched C31. It is dedicated to Fliegerhorst Stade.
Now Wayne does show a Fliegerhorst Stade etch in his book on page 60, but that one is an Eickhorn etch. In fact, until I got this one, I didn't even know that Pack made this particular etch.
What happened with this one is that when I showed it to some friends (most of them here on GDC), I immediately got offers to move it. It turns out that the offers all came from one source, a big time collector, who absolutely wanted to have this pattern to complete a small grouping that he was working on. As an avid, some may say obsessive, collector, I know what it is like to be very close to completing a grouping and how important that is. And, since Packs are my second most favourite maker (I like Eick), I gave in and exchanged this item for a rare Eick etch, and a whole lot of good karma, I hope.
So, while no longer on the JohnZ wall, it was for a short while and it was pretty neat, you betcha!
John
When I decided to give up on trying to find all the Pack Ovals, I knew John had a start and only needed a few of the really rare ones (I had a few), so I elected to sell them to him so that SOMEONE could be close to finally having a complete set. I had tried, since my first work on bayonets, to assemble this set. I found it impossible and hoped that, with my additions, John would be able to accomplish this. It appears that he has the best shot in the hobby. As I told John at the time, that is the only reason I would part with the Weiser and the Langenberg Pack Oval pieces.
I was pretty surprised Ron sold the Weiser & Langenberg Packs myself but can see his reasoning. It's nice they're in John's collection now along with plenty of good company. I agree with Ray too, this is probably the best Pack (& Eick?) collection in the world. Unless there's some hermit hiding out somewhere?
Ron and Billy:
Thank you.
Outside of the Oval C31 Stade Pack etch that I owned for about 2 weeks, is there any other Pack Oval pattern that you know of out there?
John
absolutely wonderful Pack collection John. As an item of interest I have a Pack # 6 etch pioneer with Inf. Regt 124 Braunsberg Ost/pr etched on the ricasso. This and yours to Art Regt 57 represent 2 of about 5 or so Pioneer patterns I've seen to non Pioneer outfits from Braunsberg. Apparently many of them preferred the pioneer pattern.
John,that's absolutely amazing what did you found,congrats
Regards
Stingray
Also of note is that my two etches to MG Batl 9 out of Heiligenbeil, one on a No 6 and one on a No 11, are both Pioniere hilted.
John
Barry,
I've noticed the same thing regarding unit marked Pioneer hilt bayonets & Braunsberg/Ostprussia. The one example I had (now with John's stellar collection) was such a piece.
John,
As always, it's a pleasure to see the length & width of your Pack collection. It never gets dull for me whatsoever.
It`s just getting tough to find new Eicks and Packs to add to what I have... I know they are out there, but they keep hiding from me.
John
Hi John,
Persistence has always paid off for me & undoubtedly it will for you. The real problem you face is when you do get them all, what's next?
Billy:
You can never get them all.
I have 36 different Pack etches, over a dozen of which are variations not listed in the Pack catalogue. I know of at least two variation etches out there waiting for me to find them, one of which is in the catalogue (the small Panzer).
And, then there are the unit dedications and the stag grip variations and the Pioniere hilted variations. I think that I am scaring myself here that this search will never end.
John
John,
That's an amazing collection already. Best of luck in finding the rest. Congratulations!
There is an etch pattern shown on page 135 of Wayne`s book that is on a Horster marked bayonet and looks a lot like the Pack No 11 Neutral etch. But, there are several differences. I have this etch pattern on an unmarked blade and dedicated to Gebirg Jager Regt 99.
The etch that I just received and that I show above is another version of this Horster pattern etch, but it is on a Pack marked blade.
This makes me think that Pack was the maker for both the Horster and the unmarked etches. It also makes me believe that Horster bought their etches from both Holler and from Pack, as you can see on Page 125.
Here are pictures of the three etches, from top to bottom, they are:
-unmarked blade, Horster etch as seen on page 135, Geb Jager 99
- Pack marked blade, Horster etch variation, IR 3
- Pack marked blade, No 11 etch MG Batt. 9
Note that the Pack No 11 etch is a short etch even though it is on the same long blade as the other two.
As Rowan and Martin`s Laugh In says, `Very Interesting`.
John
A little late to the show here but what a magnificent,superlative collection of E Packs you have John...thank you for sharing these beauties!
In my humble opinion the best Etch producer of them all and my personal favourite being the number 12 Mountaineering example...how rare is that!
Just great to see.
Thanks, Darren.
I like the No 12 Mountain Troop etch as well, although I also like their various Ovals.
But, frankly, my first love is Eickhorn.
John
Here is a unique Pack double etch that has some great features and a couple of questions.
First of all, there is a gold inlaid dedication to service in the war years of 1939/40.
Second, the other etch shows a fighting motif of cavalry against infantry and a machine gun.
Both etches are really neat and show great detail.
The questions are:
Why is the large Siegfried (the correct mark for this era, by the way) on the obverse rather than the reverse?
Shouldn't the etches be reversed with the fight motif on the obverse and the dedication on the reverse?
Why the unique bookend and the unique motif, both of which are brand new to Pack?
Enjoy,
John
I suspect the obverse logo is the result of Pack not wanting to overlap with the reverse etch, which seems to take up a lot of blade space. I've seen this on special order presentation daggers so I suspect the same could be true on a special order bayonet.
I too have the same question about why they would have a cavalry charge against a machine gun emplacement. Initially I thought it might be some sort of battle recreation with the Polish since I remember reading about Polish charges like that, except the horsemen clearly are wearing German stahlhelms. The detail is excellent & you can even see the decals on the helmets so they're definitely German soldiers on both sides. Really cool piece.
Beautiful & rare bayonet John, congrats brother.
Wow Johny,i think you found something rare.
It could be one of kind.
I have similar etch on my Pack sword
pic.
Thanks for showing, Ivan. This confirms that Pack did do a cavalry etch.
J
Superb Pack collection John. I've owned a few but only retain 1 now. A pioneer infantry etch with ricasso marked to Inf Regt 24, braunsberg ostp. Yours are the best. Barry
Indeed a one of a kind piece here. I held it at the MAX SHOW. Just a one looker!! Correct in EVERY way. Billy G. is correct about the makers mark placement. This example has got to make your TOP 5 of rarest etched bayonets in your collection. Congrats on this John!!
Great reference thread!!!
Machine Gun Batl 9 seems to have been a lucrative unit for a Pack etched bayonet salesman.
I have in my collection 5 versions of this unit dedication:
-on a Neutral #11 etch with a Pi hilt
-on a No Oak #6 Infantry etch with block lettering on reverse Pi hilt
-on a No Oak #6 Infantry etch with script lettering on reverse Pi hilt
-on an Oak #6 Infantry etch with block lettering on reverse and Pi hilt
-on an Oak #6 Infantry etch with script lettering on the obverse inside the #6 etch
What a great hobby, eh?
John
Once again John thank you for sharing your collection...super duper!
Your collection could probably fill a couple of volumes if you ever did a book on the subject.
By far my favorite bayonets. Thank you for always sharing.
I'll second that Mikee...the subject variety of Pack Etchings is unmatched imo.
Beautiful John,thanks for sharing
Sharing is what makes this hobby so great.
Too bad that I cannot edit the thread title... I cringe every time I see 'Eyched', but I guess it is better than 'Itched'.
John
I fixed it for you, John.
Dave
You find the greatest stuff, John.
Thanks for showing.
Dave
Dave, I have a lot of good friends who help me out all the time. They point me to many a good item.
I am blessed.
John