Hello all,
I have a bayonet which looks a bit like the 71/84, made by Simson & Co with leather scabbard. However, it looks like the muzzle ring is too far from the base, compared with a picture I have. Is this a sort of modification ?
Thanks for yr help
Ben
detail
marking2
Hi Ben,
Your bayonet was made for the M1893 Mauser rifle.Spain was the largest purchaser of the M93 but your bayonet doesn't seem to have the requisite Spanish markings on the cross guard.I believe M93 variants were also sold to Brazil and small quantities to some of the lesser So.American nations.Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Len
Thanks Len.
The M1893 was not used by the German army ?
How would the designtaion of this bayonet be ?
Many thanks
Johan
I was wondeing if the bayonet would also have been used with the M1893 Carbine ?
Ben38:
You will notice the height of the M-1893 muz.ring from the back of the bl. in comparison to the German M-1871/84...which is closer to the bl.
The maker "Simson" was a German blade maker that did quite a bit of exporting.
Also, the German Army never used the M-1893.
They jumped from the M-1888 Commission model straight to the M-1898.
The M-1893 was a Mauser-made rifle done for the Spanish Military.
Most carbines were never made for the attachment of bayonets, and never by the Cavalry.
Some carbines made for the Artillery did have bayonet attachments.
Jax
Hi All,
Many thanks for all your help ,
Best wishes !!
This example was re-gripped; the original grips were riveted.
Ben38,
I happened to have a pic of the 71/84 and Spansih M1893 in my file, you can see the different height of the muzzle ring as Swordz mentioned.
What appears to be the same bayonet can be found marked OEWG. These were made by Steyr for the Romanian M-93 Mannlicher.
These can also be found as Turk conversions, having a high muzzle ring mounted! Although they will fit the M-93 Mauser, they were intended for the Turk export-type Mausers.
And A LOT of these were found in mainland China too. I don't know what rifles do these fit, but they do not look like local made, very possible imported to China before WWII by the Nationalist Army.
Keith
Be interesting to see pics. The Chinese imported pretty much every make of weapon known to man.
There is yet another OEWG 71/84 clone, this with a 17.5mm MRD. The gun is not known, but is presumed to be a black powder export rifle of some sort.
Pete,
Here is a small collection from mainland China. The top one is the OEWG 71/84. The 3rd one is a German. Unfortunately there is no close up of these bayonets.
Regards,
Keith
Here's one from another collector. Maker unknown. Note the round fuller.
Another Chinese-made?
Note if the MRD is 14.5mm it's for the Romanian Mannlicher M-93.
Hi Pete,
No, not China made. All bayonets you see above were imports.
Thank you for the information on the Romanian, I'll check with the owners.
Best regards,
Keith
Markings on the one with rounded fuller?
Pete,
Apologise for delay in response. The owner finally replied. The bayonet was unmarked at the ricasso.
Do you think that its a Romanian ?
Best,
Keith
The Muzzle Ring Diameter will tell you. (see above).
No doubt its for the Spanish 1893 long Mauser rifle.
Just after the adoption of the Rifle by the Gvmt, still factory tools were not finished, and we need the Rifles and the bayonets. We had any litle problems in Cuba, and Phillipines...So Rifles were made by LOEWE and bayonets by Simsom.
No spanish marks at all in both.
I`ve seem many EXTRA German 71/84 made with this Spansih bayo...