We're excited to announce that the 2nd Empire Auction will begin June 13th
and run through June 27th 12:00 pm Pacific Time. We've already listed over
200 quality items, and anticipate adding an additional 100 plus between now
and the start of the auction. If you haven't checked us out before, now
would be a great time!
http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/
15% buyer premium is not that exciting from my perspective
i agree,,i tend not to bid in auctions where the buyer's fee exceeds at the most,10%..
honestly there is nothing I need that much there is always great stuff out there without paying extra premiums no matter how nice rare or valuable.
some very nice and premium items in my opinion but unless you are looking and in dire need to acquire not much incentive..a true auction has no reserve or miminal or at least a starting bid below market value...this is not fine artwork as of yet..at least the auction has made some noticeable "improvements" in my opinion over the last two months, cheers and good luck!
Hi just checked out some items $525.00 for a standard Luftwaffe wrist compass. I still find these near mint and un issued on Ebay for under $100.00 and at the last SOS the Russians were selling your choice for $150.00 high priced dealers ask $250 and they sit...$1150.00 for a nice single decal M-40 Luft helemt? c'mon $12,500 for an Allgemeine SS officer's visor..$5500 for a Luft parachute..where are the deals or bargains.. market prices or well over market in my opinion but some nice collections/dealer stock..in my opinion you would do better if you were to call it Empire militaria...I would at least check it out regularly as would everyone else...so far this is only the second time...noble effort though and you are all to be applauded for taking the "chance" cheers
Don't forget to tack a 15% "Buyers Premium" on top of the near or over retail starting prices.
Jim
15% ----- That isn't a buyers premium. That is a moron tax.
Isn't this auction really nothing more than a glorified dealer' for sale' site?
C'mon guys, lots of good people and lots of good ads to buy from on our own site, and better prices too!
Hey Jason, why not throw a bone to the fellas here and place some goodies at fair prices? After all, you are advertising this 'for profit' auction for free here..
DOUG
HOW DO YOU KNOW JASON IS ADVERTISING FOR FREE HERE?
I DON'T THINK GDC WOULD LET ANY ONE ADVERTISE FOR FREE.
JASON IS A HIGH END DEALER AND A VERY NICE GUY YOU CAN LEARN A LOT FROM HIM.
HE DOE'S NOT FOOL AROUND WITH $400.00 DAGGERS . NOW HOW MANY $8000.00 FLAGS WOULD SELL ON GDC ? ( NONE )
I am sure that Doug knows who Jason is , his reputation and his high quality wares...and, knowing them both (knowing Doug personally) I can pretty much state with certainty that Doug meant nothing by his comment.....Empire Auctions was/is a noble effort..however, judging by the amount of collector angst on this site I would say that they have failed to "hit the mark" for whatever reason(s) even with all of its many faults there were still massive deals to be had at Manions, especially in the very early days...and to a lesser extent with AAG I failed to see the opportunity for any "bargain acquisitions" with what I saw at Empire..it becomes a two pronged situation...does it exist for buyer or seller satisfaction?...no one is forced to bid and no one is forced to consign....again anything that assists or helps the hobby is a welcome initiative and should be applauded....does Empire have a header in the Advertising section? If so then they obviously support this site....Empire Auctions is not a negative undertaking in my opinion...Good Luck with the auction to all concerned!!!
Evidentially "Empire Auction" is �hitting it�s mark� and is desirable to many people.
Bargains? It�s all in one's perspective.
Deutschland Erwache banner sold for $75,100. and had 73 bids.
Agreed, Manions �HAD� it�s days.
Great pic John! Jason is top shelf!
For many I quess its what you want!
The hobby needs folks like him!
If you can buy,great! But its nice to see
great stuff!
PVON
PVON
Very cool flag there, I watched this one just out of curiosity. Yes Jason is a great guy, known him for years, way before GDC ever was thought of, he's definitly top notch and top shelf stuff. I can say this about him, you can take his word for gold IMO and trustworthy! He's done very well and has his thumb on the hobby better than most.
Fritziii
Jason is one of the few in this hobby who can be trusted implicitly and without question.
I have always found him to be thinking of my best interests in the times that I have dealt or talked with him.
John
quote:
Originally posted by John Pepera:
Evidentially "Empire Auction" is �hitting it�s mark� and is desirable to many people.
Bargains? It�s all in one's perspective.
Deutschland Erwache banner sold for $75,100. and had 73 bids.
$22500 for selling a banner? hmm? Yes, I can better understand Mr. Burmeisters` excitement now.
I have discused this with John P elsewhere and I stand by my position as someone with over 40 years experience involved with auctions. 30% commissions for an operation with no real overhead such as a building,staff excetera is outrageous.
Opening lot prices that start at or near retail does NOT constitute an auction. It's a reserve sale.
Reminds me of the old rock and roll song "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"
Jim
Hi have to agree with Jim....not being a "wealthy man" I do not see myself ever in the market to acquire a $75,000 banner nor a comparable honour dagger...and since I consider myself(a collector of 27 years...most of my adult life) representative of the collecting community in general I consider those items that Empire does offer to be priced above market in most cases...some are much higher than market...a true auction has a modest reserve,if any, and allows the collecting community to establish true "market value" of an item...Manions and AAG and Steffen's followed this for the most part...now grant you some of these auctions mentioned had questionable items, especially in later years but they also offerred guarantees of originality or return policies if an item was not as represented...Empire has "no junk" or questionable items but I failed to see more than half a dozen potential "bargains" due to starting bids that were either already at market value or well beyond...there are many auction houses that deal in Hollywood and Movie memorbilia as well as historical and vintage toys that provide an estimate of value but offer a low opening bid....I am glad that Empire exists and they are a benefit to the collecting community but I fail to see how they "hit the mark" by selling less than half a dozen extremely rare and high priced collectibles to less than 0.03 of the targeted collecting community...proof will be in their longevity and I do sincerely hope that they are around for a very long time to come...cheers
Ryan:
I was out of town yesterday so didn't get a chance to look at their auction results until today. I then found this was impossible since they apparentely closed all their files as soon as the auction was over so I have no idea what sold.
Taking John to his word above that the DE banner sold for $75,100 it would have generated a $22,530 commission with both the consignor and purchaser paying 15% each. You don't have to sell a great many items to make some real money particularly when it's only split four ways.
It's purportedly still a free Country here but I wonder how long the collecting community will abide with this?
BTW and for the record: Barrett Jackson,Who I am very familiar with and which is currently the largest collector car auction company in the World start all their cars* off at whatever someone is willing to bid and the cars sell at NO RESERVE.
*Some of these cars have an estimated value in the millions.
Jim
Hi Jim certainly Empire must provide an update online or a realized price list as almost all reputable auction houses do? I would not even entertain one that didn't...as a car enthusiast myself I never miss the Barrett Jackson and you are correct in what you state..there are some really good bargains to be had, especially at entry level...also some outrageous realized prices brought on by the auction fever and the bidding frenzy..that a "no reserve" auction often generates on quality items and reputation...cheers, Ryan
The prices and items are all listed, click your mouse and you have realized prices.
You must have to be a registered bidder to see the realized prices which I will never become since it requires that you give them your credit card information even if you don't bid.
Jim
quote:
Originally posted by jim m:
I have discused this with John P elsewhere and I stand by my position as someone with over 40 years experience involved with auctions. 30% commissions for an operation with no real overhead such as a building,staff excetera is outrageous.
Opening lot prices that start at or near retail does NOT constitute an auction. It's a reserve sale.
Reminds me of the old rock and roll song "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"
Jim
..... At or near retail?
Well how would any of you guys want to buy this gem at the reserve price of $700. and then pay 15% on top?
http://www.empiremilitaryaucti...om/detail.asp?id=792 -serge-
pretty sad when you can get the entire belt in unissued condition for $2000.00...and that is the price that I paid a major dealer cheers, Ryan
there were a few nice items in that auction id like to have gotten for my collection, there were some rare nskk items that you could spend hundreds on travel and hotels to go to the big shows and not find for sale. ive been to alot of sos and max shows and not found what i came to buy. if i cant afford it well then it goes to someone else. i see nothing wrong here, good stuff always did sell at a premium..
One bargain that I did see was a very nice ground Rohm Boker SS that went for 2500.00.
I thought the prices and actual sales costs were ok, theres much higher dealers out there. The 15% charge is not good.I mean c'mon this isnt some big auction house here so why charge that. If I had the $ I would have registered. Maybe next time if something catches my eye.
I found my item in the 2nd auction that I searched since many years and I got it for my opinion for a very fair price. Just as another example RZM embroidered Thuringen title, for around 1k plus the 10% another is very cheapo. A friend of mine bought in the 1. auction a cheapo political banner. And also don't forget the European collector market where the normal fee is 20% and the currency is around 35% higher.
quote:
Originally posted by
[email protected]:
pretty sad when you can get the entire belt in unissued condition for $2000.00...and that is the price that I paid a major dealer cheers, Ryan
Ryan, I think you mean $200.00 for a whole political Belt and buckel...One that also includes the keeper! But this political buckel without belt and missing the keeper one could have been the proud owner of for $805.00 with the commission included...but don't forget postage and handling.
It didn't get a bid...perhaps next auction.
Serge:
T Wittmann have a political belt buckle on his site in "Mint" condition for $195. No ones ever accused Tom of selling items too cheaply so what does this tell you? It's Item 11 under buckles if anyone cares to look.
So $700 is a perfectly acceptable price to put on one at a dealer controlled auction? If this was on Manions there would be derisive comments all over the place. And my understanding is this was just one of many "overpricing" examples.
N.B. I just edited this post myself. I had stated exactly what I think is going on here and changed my mind. Anyone with half a brain in this "hobby" already knows this so we'll just let the conspiracy of silence continue.
Jim
quote:
DOUG
HOW DO YOU KNOW JASON IS ADVERTISING FOR FREE HERE?
DOUG HAS NOT SAID A WORD ABOUT HOW HE KNOWS THEY ARE ADVERTISING FOR FREE.
THERE WAS SOME VERY RARE STUFF UP FOR AUCTION. THAT WILL BRING THE BIG DOLLARS IN. THERE WAS ALSO SOME COMMON STUFF TO BID ON.
SOME OF THESE GUYS DOING ALL THE TALKING ARE YARD SALE BUYERS, I SEE THEM AT ALL THE SHOWS. ALL THEY GO HOME WITH IS A HANG OVER.
THE ONLY THING THEIR WORRIED ABOUT IS WERE THEIR GOING TO GET THEIR NEXT BEER AT.
IF YOU WANT THE BEST STUFF IN YOUR COLLECTION SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE TO GET IT.
I JUST BOUGHT A NAVY SWORD I PAID MORE THAN I WANTED TO BUT....
IT WAS THE BEST I'VE EVER SEEN IN TEN YEARS OF GOING TO THE MAX AND THE SOS.
quote:
DOUG
HOW DO YOU KNOW JASON IS ADVERTISING FOR FREE HERE?
Hi Bob:
I'm not Doug but I think I can handle this question.
Now lets see Burmeister has been a member of GDC since 2000. In these 9 years he's made a grand total of 46 posts and he also doesn't have a dealer banner here. That about 5 posts per year. I suspect most athiests attend church more frequently than this!
Not exactly someone who's considered a big GDC supporter. As a matter of fact only one of the 5(now 4) principals even has a banner ad. here and that principal is now gone.
Jim
In my opinion, that is not an auction at all, rather a high priced sales organization. The best thing that happened there is the disassociation of one of the founding members. I hope he still has all of the really "mega-mint" "out of the woodwork, "from my "personal collection" items. HE needed to go.
The rest are OK dealers but the pricing structure leaves a LOT to be desired.
Mark
Certainly looked like a real auction and I was watching several pieces this time around. Seemed to be some good deals there even with an all in. And some stuff was high, I think that is what happens at an auction??. Seems to be the case in every other auction I have dealt with, why would this one be different.
quote:
Originally posted by jim m:
Serge:
T Wittmann have a political belt buckle on his site in "Mint" condition for $195. No ones ever accused Tom of selling items too cheaply so what does this tell you? It's Item 11 under buckles if anyone cares to look.
So $700 is a perfectly acceptable price to put on one at a dealer controlled auction? If this was on Manions there would be derisive comments all over the place. And my understanding is this was just one of many "overpricing" examples.
N.B. I just edited this post myself. I had stated exactly what I think is going on here and changed my mind. Anyone with half a brain in this "hobby" already knows this so we'll just let the conspiracy of silence continue.
Jim
That was not just a common Political Belt buckle listed for $700, it was the Brocade PL buckle, which is about 100 times more rare.....just for the record.
The point here is this is a dealer controlled and orchistrated auction and no mention was made that I can find that's apparent about the rarety of this particular buckle.("a scarce buckle?") If it is in fact a rare item I would think this would be a prominent point made in the description. You're the guy who purportedy wrote the book on political items. Isn't this a bit of an oversight from a group of "experts" who are supposed to provide irrefutable evidence of originality with your "board of experts" ?
http://www.empiremilitaryaucti...om/detail.asp?id=792Jim
quote:
Originally posted by jim m:
The point here is this is a dealer controlled and orchistrated auction and no mention was made that I can find that's apparent about the rarety of this particular buckle.("a scarce buckle?") If it is in fact a rare item I would think this would be a prominent point made in the description. You're the guy who purportedy wrote the book on political items. Isn't this a bit of an oversight from a group of "experts" who are supposed to provide irrefutable evidence of originality with your "board of experts" ?
http://www.empiremilitaryaucti...om/detail.asp?id=792Jim
I am not even a political guy and can tell the difference between these two belt buckles, the description say's "Brocade". How much of a description do you need. The difference between the two buckles is night and day and a buyer is going to know what a brocade buckle is and if he cant tell the difference he should not be buying it in the first place. There is certainly no oversight as nothing more needed to be said.
It says "NSDAP Brocade Belt Buckle", I don't know how much clearer that needs to be? Those who collect these or have an interest would need no introduction to the worth.
The guys who run the auction describe the stuff, the "experts" don't.....if they don't do a good job, they are really only hurting themselves...so you may want to drop a suggestion in the box for them.
I agree with Bob Coleman's analysis with regards to yard sale buyer looking for his next beer and obviously just looking for things to complain about.
- thats what the 15% is for,,to help compensate all the experts for their expertise!
hey Jim be careful,,your going against the grain
Yeah:
Political stuff:An obscure area that was for the most part ignored by the mainstream collecting comunity. Please enlighten us as to what we have missed over the years. I agree that this is garage sale stuff that would mostly be bypased by the mainstream of 3rd reich collectors.
Your right Gaspare: They are bringing out any reserves they may have. They have "experts" then for what reason? Since the guys who "run the auction' describe the stuff apparently they don't need "experts' what are the experts for?.
What a pitiful response to a pitiful undertaking.
Jim
....OK, It's a
Brocade buckel missing the keeper for a start price of $700.00.
Look, collectors who have been around see what it is. Let them keep doing what they are doing and IMO they won't be around long.
Here is why...you can't survive as an business/auction with the following percentage of unsold lots. Look at the edged weapons as an example from the last auction. They had 23 lots listed...only
9 received bids.
http://www.empiremilitaryaucti...atalog.asp?catid=151 Those of you who have been attending auctions for years will know how this is perceived. Also a real auction house is not going to run the unsold lots through again anytime soon. A couple maybe but not 60% of the last auction.
If they keep putting those Big Reserve numbers up there they will continue to get these same results.
On the other hand, if they want to charge whatever fee from the buyers and sellers it's their business. But 30% of zero is still zero.
-serge-
Don't forget the Luftwaffe second pattern wrist compass for $500!!! these are extremely common and there were un issued stocks of them found by the hundreds in 1945..available on Ebay for $75 to $125 and from dealers for $150...expensive dealers ask $250.00...just saying..we should support Empire as it and any other well run reputable auction should be supported..they are certainly reputable and well run but they should also solicit input from the "meat and potato" collectors..there is absolutely nothing wrong with constructive criticism...in three years they may very well have wished that they had followed some of it...cheers
I tried to tell these 5(now 4) "auction experts in their own minds" precisely this
before they had the first auction. IMO There is a place in the hobby for a well run and legitimate auction venue with proper vetting and accurate descriptions. By this I mean a
real auction with low and or at least reasonable starting bids,no reserves and a commission structure that resembles reality inre. to actual incurred operational expenses.
Good items at auction will bring fair value as evidenced by the DE that sold. Inflated starting bids have No place in a real auction. I've never noticed Barrett Jackson giving away nicely restored 63 Corvettes! Why? Because they don't have to
Jim
Jim, this could be a great opportunity for you and a niche that may need filled, as we have discussed here. Empire is obviously not filling it due in large part because they did not listen to you.
Start your own auction house. You wont need a board of experts because you already know it all. No need to worry about descriptions as you have an eye for picking these apart now, so doing it right yourself will be easy.
Jim, become the Barrett Jackson auction house this hobby cries out for!
Naw:
It's much more fun watching you guys bumble & stumble your way along.
Jim
and the buyer will spend his money for this he wants.
One items was not to long ago offered in Germany for 3500 Euro and was sold in the auction for $3000, I would say a good chance.
Jason was advertising for free In this section of the Forum by starting this thread to announce the auction without a premium membership there you go Jim W the RAT strikes again
Empire do Banner advertise for which they pay.I believe what Jason did here is whats known as trolling to some of you and it normally gets pulled pretty quick
Empire Military Auctions has a paid banner on GDC. As a courtesy, those who pay for a banner ad can have a free Premium Membership for the asking. Most never bother to ask as their banner is a link to their web site and they sell from there, not from our For Sale area. To me, that says that the post was correct.
Let me add that even if EMA did not have a banner ad, the post would have been allowed as a new militaria auction site is a good thing for the hobby. This is the same reasoning as to why GDC allows new books for the hobby, like the recent SA dagger book, to be publicized without paying a fee.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...93573/m/57610838/p/1Dave
To clarify Ralf's excellent book was publicised by Wotan who is a moderator and allowed to advertise without a premium membership are you saying if Ralf (Mikatim)had posted announcing his book himself it would not have been pulled?
Dave and Vern you might want to review and update the section on advertising thats linked to from the home page you say there would only be 15 banner ads at anyone time but currently show twenty and Empire aint one of them.Also theres mention of a newsletter?Also no mention of the courtesy premium membership for banner advertisers you elude to above.I enjoy this forum but there can be inconsistency at times.If I have offended anyone please accept my appologies think I will keep quiet for awhile
You are correct. If the author of a new hobby related book cares to announce its availability, including pricing and ordering details, that post will stay. The same applies to notices about new forums, new shows, and new auctions. More books, auctions, forums and shows can do nothing but help the hobby and that is why we are all here.
As for inconsistencies, we'll work through those.
Dave
you will find this and that over all the years, I bought once a VT know for $68 from a dealer who normally will ask $700 for it. Many stuff is over expensive, some other stuff is balanced, some other stuff people consider as good priced ... who cares anyhow as the person who spends the money must know what he wants.
Bob,I was referring to the fact that he's plugging a for profit auction whilst his tab is blue..regardless of the fact his group contributes to the site.If that's the case, how many people in the consortium can post feeler posts that allow them to access a ready made customer base with so little input?
Why NOT throw a bone to the members here who do not have the big bucks (for a DE standard for eg..!!) and direct sell to the people that he and others target for their sales?
Is that so much to ask?
Doug,
Yes it is. If you want to sell, buy a premium membership or pay for a banner ad.
EMA paid for a banner ad and has not asked for a premium membership for any of its members. Since only Jason belongs to GDC as far as I know, he can have one for the asking.
As I said above "Let me add that even if EMA did not have a banner ad, the post would have been allowed as a new militaria auction site is a good thing for the hobby. This is the same reasoning as to why GDC allows new books for the hobby, like the recent SA dagger book, to be publicized without paying a fee."
I thought that was pretty clear, but maybe not.
Dave
Simply put, I would like to see more of a contribution from those who stand to profit from our site.Being 1/9 of a consortium that contributes a banner is all well and good, but if you don't contribute, don't ask for your premium membership and hardly post (except to advertise) it does leave a bad taste in some members mouths..
There are many full time and part time dealers here who contribute knowledge and items at lower than retail , for the benefit of our members.
Surely some of the largest dealers who stand to benefit from A) the knowledge of our base) and B) the purchase power of our membership could contribute in a more meaningful way...
Why does this have to be underscored?
Doug,
You seem to be asking why do some banner ad holders contribute by posting and others do not? I have no answer for that one, but I am thankful that they support us by buying an ad which helps keep GDC, including the ability to upload picture, free.
Same applies to Premium Members. Do they have to post in order to sell? Absolutely not ! Look at Bob Grant - Bygone Relics - who rarely contributes but continues to give GDC members first shot at a fantastic variety of "vet p/u" artifacts. Good for him.
Dave
I agree Dave, Bob is the type of dealer i like to see here with very favourable prices on his items.I have no problem with that..possibly I would just like to see a little more altruism from others , but that's just me!
Empire Military Auctions is live with their third auction.
http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/Dave
PS: Our policy is that as a service to collectors, GDC will allow announcements of militaria shows, hobby publications, new websites, auctions, or any other event that increases interest in militaria.
I've been waiting for days now for a verification code so I can bid on something, anybody know who to contact, I have sent E-Mails to them already.
Gary
Try Jason Burmeister
[email protected]
looks like it was a slow auction in regards to sales.
I just spent the last 2 days at the Crossroads of the West and Small Arms Review shows(about 2000 tables total) which are held concurrently in Phoenix this time each year. From what I could seen and in talking to the many dealers I know sales were slow. The place was crowded but many of the people walking around had guns of their own they were trying to sell. You were able to walk right up to the ammunition dealers tables for the first time in months and I guess the panic buying is over for the most part.
Bottom line I expect is until the economy REALLY improves and the job market recovers is guns and militaria sales will remain slow.
Jim
Yes, Jim it's a tough time out there to sell for "Big Ticket" now.
Especially when you just started a business with partners and you have to split your profits four ways. Darn tough.
-serge-
Serge:
I promised a friend in this hobby that I would "lay off" Empire Auctions for now. I think their numbers and their practices speak for themselves. Enough said.
Jim
quote:
Originally posted by jim m:
I just spent the last 2 days at the Crossroads of the West and Small Arms Review shows(about 2000 tables total) which are held concurrently in Phoenix this time each year. From what I could seen and in talking to the many dealers I know sales were slow. The place was crowded but many of the people walking around had guns of their own they were trying to sell. You were able to walk right up to the ammunition dealers tables for the first time in months and I guess the panic buying is over for the most part.
Bottom line I expect is until the economy REALLY improves and the job market recovers is guns and militaria sales will remain slow.
Jim
Jim, I really don`t think that there will be any improvement.
The only way that any country can improve it`s economy is by manufacturing export. Given that here in Europe & the U.S. & pretty much everywhere else I travel everything is made in China the situation is extremely bad. You can`t even hope for government intervention to curb imports while they are still borrowing money from the yellow peril lest the debt is called in. Supplying our own domestic markets would be an excercise in damage limitation but I`m afraid to say that this is now very unlikely in a global market.
A wise man once said that international finance would be a destroyer of nations. How right he was!
