I personally hate to see something like this up for sale as we we all know these parts will probably end of "Upgrading" either a PD Krebs or unmarked police sword.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...=224107573#224107573Jim
But if the owner doesn't want it or need it any more what are they to do with it?
Guess it's like buying a gun,it's up to the owner to do the right thing with it.
Jim. I guess I would get the runaround if I listed this handle for sale huh?
SSman
Because the blade looks like this!
SSman
A perfect parts set to make the perfect fraud. I take it by the silence here that the majority of the membership think this is OK. OK of course as long as they don't end up with the end product. Nuff said.
Jim
I made my 1st post without reading the seller's description and it seems the seller is inviting the potential buyer to take a police degen and convert it into a SS one,not ethical IMO.
That's my impression as well. This is also one of the main reasons I've curtailed my buying as there's just too much of this crap going on anymore. Too many $$$$$ involved. Someone will take this $2600 grip plus a $1000 police sword and turn it into a $6000 to $9000 SS officers sword.
If this isn't the case let the buyer identify themselves and state their intention.
Jim
Hi Jim I agree with you in theory and thought the same thing when I saw the posting...but let us also face the reality of our hobby...this restoration stuff has been going on as long as this hobby has existed...two of the biggest names in the hobby either supply restoration services or sell most parts needed to perform the work..who hasn't switched or swapped a dagger handle, blade,scabbard or fitting or added hangers or a portepee? Who hasn't replaced turned missing or buggered scabbard screws? It also happens with medals and other things as well..helmets with replaced or missing chinstraps..etc..visor caps that have been denazified as well as tunics...because the majority of them were..the vast majority have replaced adlers!!!!I think that the question is a moral/ethical one...do we or do we not tell the buyer/purchaser of the work. Hell, Atwood made up more daggers than anyone and chances are that many of the army and Lufts out there are made up pieces....I wouldn't care about purchasing one as long as it was not detectable to me or anyone else...Cars have replaced parts and have bodywork and paint and replaced interiors...watches and old radios/electronics have work performed on them..as does antique furniture and other items...again it is a moral or ethical question that one must decide upon...so agree with you to a point but say...yes...but.....cheers, Ryan
I agree with you Ryan that it's an ethics issue.
In my opinion adding a portapee or a hanger or replacing missing screws doesn't materially alter a piece. The first two were add ons to begin with and screws are a very minor part in the makeup of a dagger. I guess you've also explained why I've never bought a dagger from "two of the biggest names".
However taking a grip such as the one just sold and construction of an expensive SS sword with other parts in another matter entirely.
If my reading of the intent here if wrong fine. All the new owner has to do is identify himself and set the record straight.
Jim
Without making pointed, disparaging remarks, there can be very little doubt that these hilt parts will be used to convert a police sword. If it makes someone feel good to own an SS officer "parts" degen, I guess there is nothing that can be done about it. If the conversion is immediately sold as an SS degen only, without comment about the conversion, that is a very strong moral issue. In any case, sometime, somewhere, the degen will wind up in the market place for a very high price and without mention of the conversion. If done properly, an easy task, no one will know about the conversion. I don't doubt there are many swords and daggers that have replaced parts or have been converted that are undetectable to a collector. I would not want to convert a police sword to an SS one and keep it. It would always bother me to know it is not the real thing. But, I guess a conversion is tempting to a collector who has always wanted an SS officer degen, knowing most are beyond his means. Something else to be of concern to the collecting community. I would be very cautious about any SS degen where the hilt attaches to the tang as police swords do. More and more, the "Dachau" degens are looking better. Those and the expensive early all nickel-silver degens. A textbook" "Dachau" sword may or may not be made up of parts postwar, but it is easily identifiable as being proper in its makeup.
Jim. I have no intentions of selling the ss handle because the blade has water damage. I was just using it as an example of parts that people are selling! I was thinking of looking for a blade for this ss dagger but then I would know it was a parts dagger and that would definately bother me and I would never sell it with a replaced blade because that would also bother me!
SSman
SSman:
I believe you are an honorable person and will assemble an SS degen for you own collection and enjoyment. The problem is that we all eventually go to the collectors place in the sky and this fact that it's an assembly gets lost.
What do you intend to do to insure this doesn't happen?
Jim
For one thing Jim. I do not collect swords so I have no interest in the ss sword parts. As far as the ss dagger goes it will stay in my collection and if I do decide to get rid of it, it will have the same water damaged blade.
SSman
If it's used to convert and deceive then that will be up to the new owners conscience,
if its used to replace a damaged part on an otherwise fine piece then the damaged part should be retained and offered along with a full explanation on any future sale
And yes I believe in fairies as well
Maybe that's why the seller didn't do the upgrade himself? Ethics?
What's the problem here ???
Firstly I do not collect degens and I'm not interested in it. I would not upgrade this hilt because this is not my way of collecting. I get into possesion of this hilt and I could do two decisions. Keep it (do not knowing what for) or sell it as it is to someone who is interested in this item. For me prices of SS degens are sky high and not worth of it. With this hilt and parts (blade and scabbard) someone can become an owner of very nice piece for a reasonable price. Honestly my hilt it is a HEART of the degen the rest is just a "dressing". Is it forbidden to sell parts ??? Tell it to Mr. Jo....n or other dealers. Someone said here the truth - all of us changed in the past damaged parts - there is no saint in this hobby.... AMEN
You got that right ! Can't say it any better than that !!!
Gottlieb,
Absolutely every "wanted" ad for a dagger part will result in an upgraded dagger just as every "For Sale" part that is sold will have the same result. See our wanted and sale forums.
The ethics have been argued many times without much in the way of a conclusion.
Same thing can be said about firearms particuarly Lugers.