The German Military Fundforum is a great military collecting sites for those that speak/understand German.. I go on occasionally. They have a nice sized Ring / jewelry forum!

You've seen this before from me and here it is again.. I like Honor Rings.. When I was 11 years old I had one for about 2 weeks!,,anyway.. - I like the variety of PP rings.

By no means am I a 'expert' on the HR,,I'm not even a very big enthusiast on them... So I do my reading on them when new material comes out etc. and continue to admire them and how cool they are !!

- So recently this ring goes on the Fundforum.. Came with a box,,a bunch of documents,,and a bunch of postwar [57] reissued medals to him..
- Looks in great shape.. At first I didn't like the 'engraving' Looked like it was scratched in. The infamous 'die' or mold flaw looked a little weird to me also. But what do I know?!

You enthusiasts,,guys that collect,,guys that study,,,am I just being to strict? to cautious? Does this look good :

Some of the outer photos:

Here are some photos of the inner band...........................

- What you guys think? A fine great condition piece?,,or something that needs to be looked into,, be suspicious?

G
For me, it just seems something is "off" on it. I think it may be one of the rings that needs a hands on inspection. The engraving does not look well executed based on the exterior features.
Just my opinion.

it looks more like a copy, there are no traces of manual processing from the outside of the ring, and these moments are on all the rings, the photos are so bad that it arouses suspicion, it’s the 21st century on the street, the cameras on the phones are good everywhere, but the pictures seem to be taken 20 years ago...
I don't like this ring.
don't like the skull either and his detailes.
Photo engravings are very bad to understand something

I'm not a specialist with the Honor ring. My thing is Private Purchase.. BUT,,this looked funky to me when I first saw it.. SO, so far you guys are not liking it either.. Wouldn't be the first time a counterfit got put in with a bunch of wartime stuff and documentation... OR maybe I'm reading it wrong as my German is non existent! and they know its not good [?].

Any other opinions?? I'm going to post this/our link over there and see what comments we get! Link below,,have a look!!



https://www.militaria-fundforum.de/forum/index.php?thread/1009519-totenkopfring-nachlass-ritterkreuztr%C3%A4ger/

https://www.militaria-fundforum.de/forum/index.php?thread/1009519-totenkopfring-nachlass-ritterkreuztr%C3%A4ger/&pageNo=2#post5344115

Looks like the real deal in the photos provided here.
Is there a photo of the other side of the ring, Gaspare?

I stay with JR and I wouldn't discharge it so fast like a copy.

That said, better pics would help to definitely judge.

Rico

- JR / Ric,,,,,thats why I posted it here... I had a email from a member of Fundforum and said I like HRs but by no means a specialist in them so I posted here...


- - - - its a pain to resize etc.the photos to get them to fit here properly... - * Copy and paste either of those links above and you'll see all the photos,,documents,,his 57 Knights Cross etc.

I can't see anything in those links. All I see is in german but pics aren't showing. Is there something else to do to see pics on that site?

I will try resizing tonight,,,it will take a bit..

Here's a few more I cleaned up a bit ,cropped to fit etc.. Hopefully these will help. :

The engraving looks real scratchy / low quality...

I still stand behind my initial post. Something just doesn't look right and the last pic of the engraving causes me more concern.

,,, I agree, it looks scratchy.. The number '3' above post is interesting too!

It's the real deal. Period SSTK

And why do you say that? Any backup? With all the "flags", scratchy engraving, funny looking numbers, off center joiner line that looks terrible. How many period HR have you seen like that?

All of the above is how you see the ring. The "flags" are your impressions, while on the other hand the ring is exceptional in my eyes.

That I can understand and agree with.

2 JR
Not one argument FOR, just opinions that it's good.
Not serious.

G,

thanks for the additional pics. I agree it's a good ring.

I like the ring too.

With the additional photos, it is a one looker for those know what to look for in regard to a period example. And about as mint as they come. Gorgeous SSTK !

I have never seen scratchy/uneven engraving like that nor the style of numbering. How can those be explained? What are others seeing to determine this as a "one looker"?
It could be real or not, but definitely would need to be looked at more closely.

Outside of the ring looks great. What do we know about the engraving (or the man to which it has been made for) thus far?

Mike what do you think of the inside and the areas I mentioned?

I’m seeing what you do, Ron- but I don’t know of any explanation for it myself. It’s almost like the engraver was unable to keep his hand steady at best. I don’t know of any other period explanation other than it was a bad engraving. As to the likelihood of that I haven’t a clue, except to recall various discussions over the years about Gahr master engravers and jewelers being very good at what they did as well as discussions over the SS being exacting in details as well. That of course doesn’t mean that didn’t happen one time or the other; a re-engraving? A later engraving done by an elder jeweler? Or maybe it’s late war and old Wilhelm who is awesome is also dead and plus doesn’t work on Tuesdays, so quality is down. Who knows?

A tough weekend with too many beers:)

Now that I can relate to :))

I see what many see,, scratching , almost unprofessionally engraving,,Eyes weird,,crossbones a bit weird,, left side rune flaw looks off.... But I'm no specialist as mentioned,, -
- send me a nice SA,, skull,, patriotic ring, anyday over one of them! Well I'm glad some of you like it and feel confident in your assessment.. Thank you...

I don’t understand how it is possible to discuss the originality of the ring from such angles and bad photos, the appearance of the ring is not shown: there are many very important places there, including traces of manual processing.
There is no photo of the skull, it also has traces of manual refinement.
Bad photos (not informative) on engraving.
And still, there are people who say that the ring is good.
There are no normal photos, how can you say something definite from such photos?
Or someone does not understand the issue of these rings, or simply makes unconsidered statements ...

I agree 100%

Looking at that engraving, features suggest an engraving made with ring already seamed.....while typical Gahr engraving suggest they usually made it on ring still open and flat.


Conseguently we can have 3 assumptions :


1) the ring is a super fake by casting , so they had no chance than to engrave it that way


2) the ring is original, but for some reason it was re-engraved........postwar ?


3) Gahr engraver had a very bad day.....


Ric

2Ric
I think that the original rings were not made with a plate and then twisted, the blanks are quite thick and it is very difficult to bend them. I am sure that at least all the rings of the 40s were already cast in the form of a large ring, which was then adjusted to the desired size by cutting off excess leaves.
It’s easier to manufacture than twisting a ring - firstly and secondly, it’s difficult to straighten even a twisted workpiece into an even circle, you can’t do it with your hands, you need to use a hammer or something like that, but then dents remain, so the 40x rings were definitely not made in the form of a strip.
Look how much my production practice gives me, you can see what was done and how, there is nothing to invent

P.S, more then, I now engrave assembled rings, I assure you, the rings were engraved assembled, do not see the old and unreliable bikes.

Has anyone actually seen this ring in person? Would be interesting to hear their assessment.

We don't know how gahr did the engraving [open or closed]. But he did know who the ring was going to so they very well could have engraved when open..


I don't know what happened to this ring Tanker. Its on the German forum and I have my hands full with English!

Really,,, for me it looks weird. Eye sockets and other thing. Some tings look ok.. But more bad then good for me..

just checked.

They all seem to love it.. For those that can read German have a look even if you can't see photos..

Its a safe free to join site so maybe join and look around!

I am not fluent in German. I think there is something about a 'restoration' on the box.. So that too would probably would need a in hand check[?]


https://www.militaria-fundforum.de/forum/index.php?thread/1009519-totenkopfring-nachlass-ritterkreuztr%C3%A4ger/&pageNo=4

Thanks G
Appreciate the update. Ron

G,

Is it for sale/ The link isn't working. Thanks

According to the thread: No.

Wotan,,, from the photos there what do you think of the ring?

I would not have made a statement if you would not have asked, I don´t want be involved in endless, useless debates. For me this ring (and it´s box) is a one-looker original one. I do own several rings and boxes and have between 300 to 400 rings in my files. Collectors often forget or neglect that these rings have been produced through several years, years of peace, years of war and late war and by different workers/artists. You can see that on certain periods the quality of rings or the quality of engravings (or both) lacks and gets better again lateron. My assumtion is that in these periods workers at Gahr have been called up and an unexperienced, unskilled worker took over and did improve during his time.
Even if my assumption is wrong it is a fact that I have several rings in my files which are doubtless original and have such kind of shallow engraving. Also if you enlarge such pics you can see that these engravings are exactly done (recession, shaddow, beginning stroke, endstroke) like all the other well known and appeciated engravings but only a little shallow (or let us say better: fine).
We also might not forget that these engravings and the enhancing of the outside of the rings was done per hand and each artist might have better and not so good days.
Also the box is a doubtless original only missing one certain feature (a black band on the upper part). It is slightly restored (the later attached adhesive tape has been removed, perhaps color is also restored on some small parts) and is still collectible and rare as a hen´s teeth.

Just my 2ct.

Regards,


PS.: The rings were engraved in closed state, this is prooved by all engravers I have spoken with and can also be seen in the engraving itselve if you do study it carefully.

wotan,

You are the man! I agree with absolutely everything. Yeap good and bad engravers/ using apprentice engravers if I might add.

Thank you Mikee. I might add and emphasize that I do not want to make a fake inscription as original acceptable in any way! I hate fakes! You really have to examine an inscription and a death head ring VERY carefully! You have to study each ring you can see in real or pics (unfortunately often rings come in bad photographs). Fortunately in recent past we have gotten some good books in which a lot of rings are photographed in excellent details anway in which language the book is written or how the author thinks the rings have been manufactured. You have to do your homework, perhaps on these rings even more than on other items because of the many different quality fakes and crooks who want to sell you fakes as originals for horrendous prices.
Regards,

Yes, the Russian pumping out fakes left and right, all the while trying to confuse collectors by calling good rings bad, on both this site as well as the Relics site.

I thank all who posted here..
I don't think this was a endless, useless debate... This IS a forum...

Everyone see's something different and have different levels of experience with them..Many come here to learn and the debate is the way they can learn.. The rings does show some funkyness,,,but it is authentic.. Thats the good news..

Again I thank all that have posted,, In this day and age,its more important than most think!