Hello all I am new to the forum and was wondering if anyone might help with this ring? It is marked on the inside DRGM 800, weighs about 4 grams. I think its WW2 era possibly worn by a German Soldier? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Hello, Chris R

Do us a favor and post the pictures, not links.

Thanks

Dave

Sorry, will see if this works.

Hi Chris,,,
,,Welcome to the forum... I can tell you 100% this is a good known period pattern... This would be a very early ring. Interwar [between the wars]. I'll try and find the advert for it..

Meanwhile,,could you post a photo of the DRGM 800. And if you can a little better detailed/larger photo of the side designs - oak and laurel leafs..One nice shot of each..

If good this is a seldom seen pattern [rare].

Thanks Gaspare! Glad to be here!
The ring is on the way to me so I decided to ask around a bit on what it is exactly. I can post some better pics in a couple of days when it arrives. I have never really thought of purchasing rings like this or WW2 rings but came across this one and to me looked a lot better made than the fakes of others that I have seen. I have tried researching it online to no avail, cannot find one like it anywhere. It didn't come from a seller of War or Military items, its coming from a lady that buys and sells jewelry she gets from estate sales.
Thank you for taking a look at it, I hope to find out more and I will post those pics you requested as soon as it gets here. I have been looking forward to getting it in my hand.

hi gaspare, I thought that DRGM on a ring was a sure sign of it being a fake!. mike

Mike,, there have been GesGesh and other type of protection marks in rings.. DRGM usually is to protect a device,,a new type of pin, an enclosure ,,latch etc. OR could even be for a new way of production.. So RZM , SS runes etc are a no no. I don't yet see why the ring would be marked such which is why I really want to see the marks.. Maybe its something else..

Meanwhile heres a ring and advert -


photo credit Russian site 'Rings of War'

Wow, thanks Gaspare! That certainly looks like the same ring. Its funny you posted that from ringsofwar, I have the ring posted on another forum I am on and a guy in Russia messaged me asking if its for sale? I said no and that I am still trying to figure out what it is. He suggested posting it on ringsofwar and that he would help with what to type as its in Russian. I told him I might do that once I can take better photos on Monday. I went to the site and was looking at all the pics and found the advert you posted. I also found another pic of one and put them all together in one pic. Here it is, mine is bottom right, the other 2 are courtesy of ringsofwar.

you can post many things here.. And we have a few who can translate Russian and Ukrainian, Latvian, Italian, etc. etc.

Any Allied or Axis 3rd reich jewelry.. Cufflinks, stic pins, Fobs, tie clips,,documents for, award cases,, advertisements,, period photos, ,dies, tooling, anything remotely related,,all welcomed here.
We are friendly with all the other forums and them with us [hopefully]!, and thats how it should be.. Without international collaboration and cooperation you end up with fantasy as real, fakes being good, rumors and hearsay.. Only the crooks / counterfeiters win then ! We all try and document by any way we can to get whats right..
We are all comrades in this ring hobby of ours.

Thanks! I came across it the other day and thought it looked good, not like a lot of repros I have seen. It was 40.00 shipped so I took a chance. Now the DRGM mark has me worried but I am hopeful its good. Considering where it is coming from and how its made I am pretty confident its legit, I hope! First ring I have purchased and if good I will be excited to add it to my small collection. From what I have read online the DRGM mark was used on anything from clocks to toys and everything in between up to about 1950, not as a patent mark but more of a design mark if I interpret it correctly. I will post pics when it gets here, should be Monday.
And I know all about the crooks, left my last hobby because of them.

Just an observation, in the advert at the top it says NEUHEIT which I think means New or New to the Marketplace???? If so then is it possible that it would have a DRGM stamp? To protect against someone else copying the design? I read online that the DRGM mark had to be applied for and paid for and would be active for 3 yrs, perhaps after 3 yrs they did not reapply for the DRGM mark so only earlier versions would have the stamp? Just thinking out loud.

From the web,,,,


DRGM & DRP

The acronym D.R.G.M. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, meaning that the design or function of an item was officially registered inside all of the Germany states and not only locally registered as it was the case before the introduction of centralized registration. Note that many people quote this acronym as standing for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster, which is grammatically wrong and also ommits the letter 's' after Reich. This results in shifting the weight of pronounciation on 'Deutsches Reich' alone, but this acronym has nothing to do with the Third Reich as many sellers want to imply so to catch the attention of certain 'collectors'.

D.R.G.M. registration was introduced 1891 and if you are dating items you should hold in mind that even during Allied occupation up until 1949, registration procedures remained untouched and still used the D.R.G.M. registration documents, which of course explains why D.R.G.M. marks can be found on products actually manufactured up until 1952 as the registration itself was valid for three years. As from the end of October 1952, all registrations were definately marked with 'Deutsches Bundesgebrauchsmuster' (D.B.G.M.) or simply with 'Gebrauchsmuster' or 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz', see below.

As already noted, the D.R.G.M. registration offered a basic copyright protection for the duration of three years and included the right to indicate the item status by marking the registered items with the D.R.G.M. acronym. It was left to the registration owner to include the registration number as the D.R.G.M. marking alone was the element with legal character. The actual result of such a registration (the form of protection) was called Gebrauchsmusterschutz.

D.R.G.M. registered products were protected either for their way of intended use or design only and this did not include patent protection. Patent rights were secured by applying for a Deutsches Reichspatent (D.R.P.), so even if many people use the term 'D.R.G.M-Patent' it is factually wrong. Reason for this mix-up was that the D.R.G.M. registration in colloquial language was also known as 'kleines Reichspatent' which literally stands for 'small Imperial patent' but actually was meant as 'poor people's patent' and made fun of the fact that many manufacturers could not afford the fees needed to register a full patent. One should take into count that German patent registration fees (as was openly criticized during the year 1906) where two and a half times higher than in England - and 36 (!!!) times higher than in the US.

Chris,, Your info is correct.. We've discussed this many times in the old days here.
,,and even with all there rules/regulations It didn't work in 3rd reich Germany. Companies stole ideas from each other all the time...

Certain marks there is no discussion or debate about.. There was a time years ago Ges.Gesh. on a ring and it meant the ring was an immediate fake.. But that has been proved wrong..
German reunification,,freedom of information acts etc. etc. gave us plenty of information to go thru..

So,,this is possible,,,but one step at a time.. Let you get the ring, give it a wipe down,,and make some REALLY good photos...

All that certainly makes sense. Hopefully the marks will shed some light on it. Supposed to be here tomorrow, Monday, I will get good clear pics of it and I hope it turns out to be authentic. I am pretty excited about it but cautiously optimistic. Thanks for all the help so far!

Ok I finally got the ring today and from what I have seen I am going to say its good, based on my past experience selling jewelry and my background in antiques. That does not make me an expert at all just my opinion. I will shut up now and let you guys take a look.

Chris,, good glad you got it.. Well the marks do look stamped in.. But, is there any way you can take the same 4 shots but larger file size. We really need to see some detail for a fair, good opinion..

Jewelry can be very hard to photograph,but you have a good set up it seems. But your hardly breaking 100kb per photo , 2 are like in the 80s, other 2 at 100. I think you can post double that! The devil is in the details,,and thats what we need to see..

A few more pics.

I tried to post them earlier just as I took them but its telling me the files are too big so I am resizing them so they will post. Not sure what to do. Ugh technology.

Ok I was resizing them using picresize at 50% smaller, tried it at 25% smaller and it says the files are too big to upload. I am pretty good with computers and my tablet and have never had a problem posting pics anywhere else. This whole resizing thing is a bit awkward to say the least. Best I can do on the pics unless someone wants me to send them pics via email to look at. Not sure what else to do.

Ok Gaspare, I think these are larger, let me know if these are better. Thanks!

That?s a nice looking ring man.

Thanks Mike and thanks for telling me about this forum!

Chris,, yeah, maybe a problem,,maybe not.. Please,, I have a basic email for things like this,, Please send me really BIG photos of the rin

. They are still not big kb size,,,but for me please send to me and I will crop and resize and get them so we can see the detail we need to see.

Please use - Gtbua@aol.com

All straight on shots, try not for big angles, or just slightly..
A front, one of each side, each mark , 5 total,,get 'em big buddy!!...

Thanks, will do!

Close up of front.

Thats a keeper man. Congrats on a nice ring. Unless G says otherwise I say its legit and quite well done too.

Thanks Mike and for the help too! I also think its good and a keeper. I have been over it with a loupe and cannot find a thing wrong with it. Looking forward to hearing more input on it from G.
I have always been told I have a good eye for things so we will see if that still holds true.
I have about 25 yrs of picking and collecting antiques so I kinda know a little bit but not near enough.

the big photos did it for me and most who will see them.. When too big sometimes you just have to crop them,,some you then re size a little at a time until you get it. Takes a bit of time..
This one photo tells me its postwar.... Look at the small 1st photo from rings of war,,,them look at this..

It's a nice ring,,if you spent a fortune for it,,get your money back.. IF you didn't spend much,,its a great wearer as no Swas or SS runes..

yeah,,click on this one too.. postwar.. Nice,,probably old,,just not WW2 old...

and the last...

Thanks! Not sure which photo you mean? It looks like the 2 I saw on ringsofwar to me that I posted above in the thread even though one is a bad pic and the one with the advert does not show much of the ring. Not doubting you but I am a show me kinda guy. Its all good though, I gave 40.00 for it shipped so its really not that big of a deal.
Thanks for the help and opinions!

Chris,, I'm collecting these things for 40 years. There are a couple here doing it longer. and we even have a manufacturer here.. anyway..

These rings are made with silver and a press and a die. These photos show casting faults all over them,,background faults, casting 'dots'..
Example the background to the RoW ring even though is small [its bigger on their site] the ring background is real nice and smooth. this one ,,well just has problems..
The last photo I posted is real weird. The laurel leafs are mushy,,but a couple mm away there are sharp lines, [and a fault].
It's cast,,,its not the end of the world for $40...

*Best thing to do is look at a topic here for early pieces like the Patriotic rings. Everything nice and smooth, finished very well.. The more you look at authentic rings the more easy it is to spot something postwar..

it IS hard for people to see sometimes. And comparisons are sometimes best.. Smooth, well finished. Still able to tell the ring was a beauty even though worn..

Not doubting you I just needed more info as to why its post war. I am still not sold but I respect anyones opinion. Unless I can see exact pics with the same camera of the one on ROW and mine side by side showing front and sides I just cannot see enough to say there is a lot of difference. Not trying to be rude in any way as I said I asked for help and respect anyones opinion but I am just not sold. If its a fake I will just send it back, I don't collect repros of any kind.
Thanks for the info!

I looked at the pics and flaws Gaspare pointed out and the comparisons. He?s exactly right, and man that?s a really good copy! Fooled me for sure. But a copy nonetheless. I?ll quote our dear departed friend odal here... I learn something new here every day. Best part of any hobby is the learning. Best of luck chris with the next one...

Chris,,thats the beauty of it.. You can tell even from those photos.. Best is,,even without them you can see.. The ring is full of faults.. It's not even close.. It's cast/postwar...
As we always say to those who can't believe.,,, IF your happy with it then fine,,what the hell,,enjoy it!

Oh I am not doubting you guys at all, I can see flaws in it but I can see some of the same flaws in the 2 on ROW as well as some of the other rings on there. I wish the 2 pics on there were more clear and I could see more of the sides for comparison but I don't see any others like it on there that have good clear pics of the rings or the stamps. Thats the other thing that puzzles me, the stamps. Most every casting I have seen that has hallmarks they are muddled and not very deep. The marks on this ring are very clear and at least to me look to be stamped in and not there from a casting or from a cast stamp. And usually a cast item will have casting lines and will also have pores where air was trapped in the metal when it was cast. Anyway.
I value your expertise guys and I see what you are saying but for me I need to see a good clear example to make up my mind.
I wish you both could see it in hand and see the quality in the ring, the patina and the detail especially the soldier in the center. I know they say pics are worth a thousand words but having an item in hand at least for me is the best way to tell if something is what its supposed to be. As they say it is what it is.

Gonna email both of you guys some pics of something I noticed. Take a look and tell me what you think. Thanks!