I'm new here. I've been a collector off and on for 30 years. Just got this SS Honor Ring. I'm not an expert on SS items, especially these rings. The inside says "S.lb. Hahn 21.6.44 H Himmler" I plan on having Don Boyle authenticate it so I can sell it. Here are some images;



















So the ring, it looks good to me. I've contacted Don and waiting to hear back... perhaps he can do a COA but he asks a lot to do that.

I teach radio production and performance and one of my students mentioned he had a "nazi ring with a skull on it". It peaked my interest and asked him to bring it in but he never did. Weeks go by and he contacted me via email and reminded me of the ring and said he wanted to sell it. I asked him to text me a few photos so I could do some research first. Things looked good except for the story I was getting. I was told his grandfather was in the war, and gave it to him. He said his grandfather got it off a dead German (shocker) in Africa. Suspiciously, I asked if he was sure about that because there were no SS in Africa (except the SD in Tunis), so who knows.

I showed the same images I first got from the seller to Craig Gotlieb and he said;

Photos are bad, but the ring appears to be original. Here is some information on your ring:

1) Where the veteran got it is of no concern to the value.
2) 1944 dates are not uncommon.

I would be interested, but the ring market has all but collapsed. I still have a few rings on my website that I cannot move without losing money. Reason for the collapse: not only the economy, but rings experienced a "bubble" of sorts and increased in price, over the past 10 years, by about 1000%. Also, the prevalence of fakes in the past few years has shaken market confidence.


Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

Matt

Matt, I have no experience or knowledge on these 'upper class' rings, I only own replicas.

But I will say good luck!, and I only dream of encountering an offer likes yours!, it pays to share your interest incase friends or contacts have hidden treasures.

All the best, the guys here will give you all the help you need along with Don and Craig.

Thank you Svenga

Hi I purchased an "investment grade" ring from Craig 2 years ago for $10,995.00 and added a $3000 SS ring box for a total investment of $13,995.00....I purchased Craig's SS ring book at the time of purchase as well...I was forced to sell the ring due to personal issues.Craig was advocating that rings were a terrific investment and his book supported this...less than 4 months after buying the ring from Craig he re-purchased for $6000!!!!!!!! I lost $8000 in 4 months on what was touted as being a great investment.....be careful cautious and always get a second and third opinion or offer...DO NOT SELL CHEAP!!!!!! cheers, Ryan

P.S. The ring appears period and authentic....cheers, Ryan rsellick@rogers.com

Hello Matt,

I like what pics are showing.

Ric

Thank you Ryan and Ric.

Ryan:

I hear you.

It's like buying a car.. if you sell it back shortly after buying, you lose your shirt. If you wait 40 years for it to become a 'classic', you may do well.

I have done the same as you on some items, and I just shake my head and try to move on.

But, getting back to the ring, I think that Don Boyle is the go-to-guy on getting this authenticated and, perhaps, appraised.

John

so consensus is to have Don look at it and I will... I've already been in touch with Don.

I was doing some research on the recipient. I wonder if this IS the "Hahn" the ring is named to. If so, he was one evil bastard. Hahn is a common surname though.
http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206349.pdf

more info...
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=115644

Ryan, could you not have sold for more here on the classifieds? 6000 for a nice ring and box is a bargain!!!

Nice ring by the way.

Hi Jon, perhaps but I needed cash quick as I had money down on a new car purchase and was in a bind...and the ring was sent off to as "sold" very complicated story....in hind sight should have split ring and box up...box was beautiful ring authenticated by Don with research...cheers, Ryan

If you think the ring depreciated, what about that car! Ron

I think if the thread is read you will understand. Ethics and opinion

car wasn't purcahsed for "investment potential" it was purchased to drive. Ring touted as being a solid investment...4 months later it turned out to be not a very good investment...I was not looking to make money or even to break even but I was not prepared for the ____ kicking that I took...cheers P.S love the car...Saab 9 3 Turbo special sports addition Aero Sedan

Sounds good. Just trying to find a little humor in it. Sorry, didn't mean it to sound sarcastic.
Ron

The Honor ring market right now is bad period.. Just like everything else.Anyone selling now won't get what they've been told they'd get a few years ago.
Main problem is the price had gotten way over inflated some years ago ,,stagnated a couple years, ,then the market tanked..

Sure from the photos the ring looks o.k. But so does a good copy thats been aged.
The ring IF good is worth several thousand,,a few hundred for a CoA from Don isn't much when compared... Follow Dons instructions for sending and you won't have a problem..
Good luck,,let us know his findings..

Thanks Gaspare. If it turns out to be a copy (I don't think it will) then it will still be worth more than what I paid.

Thats you in the Avatar?!, ,please tell us more!!

Oh Mike, I missed that, was I asleep for a few months!!?

indeed it is. its from my reenacting days. what would you like know more about?

I understand because it's easy to miss a few. I guess I'm a sleep as well, because I'm always missing threads myself these days. I guess it was easier for me to keep up with posts before the upgrade.

Hi Ron, that's ok...I know what you meant and I saw the humour in it...its all good! cheers, Ryan

reenacting,,Oh.. Thought maybe a period photo!
Hey what do you guys do with all that equipment after its all worn and torn? , do guys wear rings as part of their 'ensemble'?

Turns out the ring is a copy... so says Don Boyle. I am getting a second opinion.

WOW a copy...I would say if Don says it's a copy..then it's a copy...to bad, you say you did not pay much for it so maybe you did not get hurt to bad. Who else might you try to ask, for a second opinion? Let us know what else you hear..take care

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

One of the better copy's if most on here were positive about the images alone.

If it turns out fake and you want a reasonable sale pm me, I could do with another daily wearer.

Hi if Craig likes it, thinks it okay and made you an offer...sell it to him...lol cheers

He will say it is 100% just because Don says its a copy...

Sepp

.......the market has the last word

Ric

Meaning what??

Sepp

Try to offer an SSHr deemed as repro by Don and blessed by Craig.......an history already seen few years ago (2009 SSHr de-named) !

Ric

HAHA.... i'm thinking I might just destroy the ring, i dunno. I didnt pay much for it. we'll see what CG says after. I'm only curious what he says.

I bet he says it is 100% please post what he says Thanks

Sepp

Yes, but 100% what?
Ron

take a look at WAF post 35 thru 38.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626265&page=3

100% ORIGINAL

Craig just got back to me... he agrees with Don Boyle.

Well, significant money was not paid for it, and as long as it never gets sold as an original, then no big deal right?

I spent very little for it from someone who believed it was real. i took a chance. . I don't have much money which is why I was reluctant to get a DB COA, (250 is a lot of money to me right now) but... it had to be done, for the sake of the collecting community.

the ring is pending sale AS A COPY! As far as I'm concerned, my posting of this ring makes it well documented and will never be sold as original. i was hoping it was original because it would helped me a lot financially had it been authentic.

This post to be slanderous and untrue. If memory serves, Mr. Sellick sold the ring and box in a divorce-induced panic to another dealer after I declined to buy it back. Fire sales NEVER make for a good investment return.

Craig,

I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that this statement is as you stated, slanderous and untrue? Did you not sell for the amount stated and did you not purchase for the amount stated? How does his falling on hard times slander you? Are you stating that you didn't profit nor had anything to do with this deal? Just wondering!

For the record, I did not sell in a divorce panic...I remain married to this day. I purchased an automobile and put $10,000 down based on the fact that you Craig told me that " Steve Wolfe would buy the ring for the price you quoted me, sight unseen. No need to even send pictures, just mail it directly to him. 4 weeks later I am waiting for my payment to arrive. I do not hear anything, even the benefit of an email. I call you and you say that Steve passed on it as it was not "mint" enough for him. I say, "Craig it was your ring, you owned it and sold it. You, better than anyone knew the condition." You say that you will re-purchase from me for $1000 less than Steve's offer and you state, " I raped you" your words....!!! not mine. Craig you are wealthy, set up a lie detector test with all of your contacts on TV...I will gladly take it with you.....I owed $6500 on the car...you had me over a barrell...I agree with your statement that you "raped me" only you screwed me as well...even in your attempts to make it better...I am not responsible for your less than steller reputation, you are...we did good business in the past. I sold you good, qaulity items...more than once..you paid no issue...why would you take advantage of a decent relationship? Sorry that I did not make you rich

P.S. Craig, your memory does not serve you correctly...I sold it to you and not to another dealer...if one is going to mislead it pays to remember what one has said previously and also to remember one's actions....

I don't think sellick8302 has any reason for not telling the truth. He has been straight forward on all his explanations. I do believe a dealer is going to try every angle to get a cheap price.
CG's mistatements don't help CG's cause. Ron

Since I became a member of GDC, IMO the greatest forum on the web by the way, I've always read nothing but great things about Don Boyle. And it seems to me that every time someone asks who they should send their ring to for authentication, just like the ring here for discussion, Don Boyle's name is given time and time again. He has literally become "the stamp of approval". And IMO a great service to all us that collect. Am I out of line in believing any different? I don't think I've read or heard of any other person on this forum that provides this type of service, but I could be wrong. Some may not need a DB certification, but I believe more would rather have one then not.

The reason I state the above is because I recently took a peek at some dealer sites that sell SS rings, to see if in fact SS Honor ring prices have gone down the tube like reported, but in the process I found a curious but interesting statement. And since SS ring certification has been brought up so many times, I thought I'd ask the collecting community what the consensus is on whether or not this statement I recently read has any factual basis, evidence or merit to it.

The statement basically concluded without explanation, that Don Boyle's certifications are "increasingly-irrelevant"... Tell me it isn't so, because I'm certainly dumbfounded by such a statement which gives no explanation. So I must ask, irrelevant to whom and what does this statement mean and is it true? Does the collecting community believe that Don Boyle's certifications are "increasingly-irrelevant"? Why and or for what reasons has or will this happen? Thank you all.

I personally think just the opposite !

With repro getting better and better, collectors need a "go to" guy, worldwide accepted as expert, to defend their investment.

Ric

Don Boyle is an outstanding individual...always willing to help.He provides a great service. I have taken advantage of it. I have yet to hear of an "un satisfied" customer. With one exception I have not heard a bad word directed towards him. I whole heartedly agree with Ric's post...just my opinion though. I believe that he has done more to further Honor rings than all others combined cheers, Ryan

agreed about Don. FOR THE RECORD... I and not connected with Craig or Don in anyway, shape or form. Ric purchased the ring from me for 200.00. Don's COA accompanies the copy/ring.

Take a look here: http://wcstumpmilitaria.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-ludwig-hahn-ss-totenkopfring.html

Quite the saga...in the end I would have to accept Don's opinion and fee....certifications are like appraisals...an art dealer does not refund their fee if a painting is found to be a copy...you are paying for their expertise, good or bad.....sure the ring market has taken a nose dive...just as the Rohm dagger market is now doing....I would like my name and comments removed from that website. I never gave permission to be quoted publically...my posts and opinions are on GDC for everyone to see....regards, Ryan

i totally agree. it was a learning experience for me and i'm not bitter about it in the end. by me getting a COA from Don, the ring will never be touted as original. I sleep well at night knowing that even if it meant taking one for the team

Indeed, Hahn's ring now belongs to my collection and paid for it that amount (plus fees).

Ric

Thank you Ric. I hope you enjoy the ring for you case studies on copies. It looks like Prosper has taken down his bulls**t story about me. He then sent me another private email explaining it all (there's been a litany of them that I pull from the trash). I'm so tempted to share it.

the article is back up again... prosper is a fool. everyone has the same access as he does. a normal person can see there is no story. Poor Prosper has everything so twisted it literally squeezes every drop of truth from his article. i have him so confused with the facts that he can't tell what is right and what isn't.

May I ask please, what exactly this guy has been saying about you
??I cannot open link, but it seems with your posts on this and WA forum a little over the top considering..
Fraser

PK came to his senses and removed the article.

and i mean it respectfully... he showed me that he actually can be reasonable. The poor guy was dragged into it all and terribly mislead by Royster/Stalh whoever who spends too much time jumping to conclusions. Royster simply pitted the two of us. I tried to make amends with him too but he won't see the light. oh well. moving on.

your obviously not moving on
as your continuing to post on here and WA forum
the same thing..seems like you posted this ring for comments
on originality, but its now obvious there is another agenda concerning you and these other guys..
please elaborate what gripe there is..
fraser

Was moving on until you posted your comment... and here I am. Thanks Fraser. Your concern is a little peculiar to me. I posted here and WAF and WRF for opinions, yes. Unfortunately there are people who lurk on these forums who've turned this into a nasty smear campaign and its important that I keep the record straight and honest.

your emails to don are a little peculiar
it seems threads on WA and WRF are more revealing than this one on this forum..
fraser

whats your point?

Mclenrd...I would not even bother...like opening a box of....


Sepp