Gents,
want to show here a comparsion of a genuine dlv knife by SMF and a high premium fake dlv knife by P.D.Lüneschloss.
Please,the first shot is recorded from a distance of 1,5 meter!
Please read the next text after your opinion about the first pic!

Here is a shot from a distance from 1 meter.

An here 0,5 meter!

Do you know now what is the fake ?
Both now out of the scabbard.

Yes,both look good furthermore.

The crossguards.

The pommels.

Comlete grips.Now on the upper you can see the fake!The leather looks as new-often seen on DLV,NSFK and Luftwaffe Daggers 1.Model.

The knife in the front is the fake.Look at the angels of the swastikas,they are rounder as the originals!

X-guard undersides.The left is the fake.

Look at the handcraft on both wings and the passage wings to swastika block.The work on the right is bad compared with the original knife on the left!

Pommel review

Again the crossguards.The right is the fake with bad handcraft wings to the center block.

Often seen PDL fake,here in very good quality,near perfect!

Bad DLV

Throats-the left is the fake.

Lower fittings.The left is the fake.Note the breadths screws heads!

The hangers.The upper is the fake.

The throats.The right is the fake.

Authentic scabbard with "stamped" DLV-logo.

This is the fake with weapon no.The DLV logo looks as engraved and not as the common genuines stamped logo.

And here is the very mystery "1936" tang marking.The marking is raised and is well known as a fake marking.
I must say the whoole dagger is very good crafted, but all dimensions are bigger as the authentics.The fake dagger is 35,5cm and the comons are 34cm - 34,5cm.
I hope this threat can protect members here about fakes !

Best Thomas-tobau-ex deutscher!

Absolute great thread!! Thanks for the info. I was just looking out for my first one and this info is just what I needed.

I was just looking at a P.weyersberg. And your thread confirms what I already felt.

Thanks,

Peter

Now that can fool a lot of people.Aside from the M/M and the size which can be seen in the first photo together and the new leather it looks very good.Thanks for the info.New people should always be on the lookout for this M/M.Know were it was used ,on what type of dagger.

Dear Thomas,

this is one of the best threads I`ve seen in the last view month´s.
Very good comparison between the fake and the original.
There is one thing you can also see at the swas
at the fake..: The upper and lower corner is not 100% in Line to the middle-axis of the dagger. -I often seen this by fake`s.

Medes

Excellent Tread! That is an excellent fake. With tarnish and attention to detail.

-wagner-

Here is another one I feel is a fake which is currently for sale. Seller even goes so far to claim one of our big american dealers has offered him 1200 euro for it??
Anyway shows exact same features as the Luneschlos.

1) Rounded screw heads
2) bad snap hook on hanger
3) Swastika not centered
4) Same crude stamps with number on scabbard throught.
5) brand new leather, slightly brighter blue that the original.

None the less a great high end copy.
Great thread!!

Excellent thread & very scary stuff. Much attention to detail, not like most of the fakes we encounter today. I wonder how many have been fooled by these already & how many will after a little age is added to the fittings?

WOW ! ! !

Indeed the FAKES are moving over into the 'nearly exact' Copy league ...... which is bad news;(

Good News ....is that their are GDC Members here who Spot them .... & share that Information with us All

Thanks for a real Education!!! Dave/dblmed

I wonder if these are really 100% fake or modified re-conditioned originals. If they are all fake they must be quite new on the market place--and they seem to be the best fakes I have ever seen. It would be most interesting to compare one with a known original with the same TM.
IMO the raised 1936 is not always a sign of a fake blade just as the cross in a box. IMO both can be found on both originals and fakes.
If you look close at these photos there seems to be what looks like some natural wear-here and there on the fittings-under what looks like new silver plate.
At any rate, in any case--not a good thing for the hobby at all. When these daggers are aged, the leather pattern and condition will be the big thing to look for. That will be very difficult if not impossible to properly age.

Houston,

Have you ever seen Tang Mark 1936 on a proven original piece?

FJS

Fred--I'm not sure what you mean by "proven" but I have seen pieces that in my opinion were original. The quality of the blades shown above is quite high as you can see. That is why I thought perhaps they had been reconditioned.
Without having these in hand it is difficult to say for sure IMO what has been done or if they are all fake.

Hello Houston,

you can be absolutely sure,the PDL is a 100% fake.When you hold the dagger in hand and do a second look,then you see the differences to the originals.For a collector with low experience is this PDL "deadly"-for sure!
In the german military magazin "IMM" in year'99 was a very good article about this fake PDL written by the french dagger expert Alain Taugourdeau .
Houston again,it's a 100% fake,but when you hold in hands,than it's easier as judging with pic's.

Best Thomas.

Thats very interesting but I am surprised I have never seen one. If they were known in 1999 there should be a lot of them around.

It is very difficult to classify a dagger only from pics, especially in this case.
I only want to state that when seeing the pics I immediately had the same thoughts like Houston.
I also have seen the RAISED "1936" (contrary to the STAMPED "1936" which indicates a fake in my opinion!) on drop forged blades (e.g. RLB-dagger) I assumed to be original after careful in hand inspection.
And beside it is highly polished the WEYERSBERG conforms to pieces of this maker which I always assumed to be period and these ones I could hold in hand had not the least red flag. Differing in details in this case might not be a red flag but manufacturer´s variant.
This might also be important for the leather graining.
As in former, old threads became obvious, there are several differences in these daggers conforming to the different makers.
E.g. one of the most prominent differences is between "K" stamped crossguards and unmarked crossguards.
I cannot make a final statement on these two certain daggers without holding them in hands, but personally I would be careful.

@tobau, what makes you so sure that the Lüneschloss is a fake?

@ Frederick, do you assume EVERY, RAISED "1936" marked blade as fake?

Regards,

Sorry gents, screwed up & can`t delete

Great thread! I agree with Houston, these are the best copies I have seen. And I have to wonder if they are original in part/s ?
Not at-all good. I managed to spot the bad one in the first pic but only just. The pommel & hanger were the first give-away that all was not right. For anyone not familiar & buying on the basis of pics from an unknown source this is very alarming & dangerous territory.

To clarify -I did mean that I have see real blades with the Raised 1936--not the stamped type.
IMO-if you find that a blade has raised tang symbols there is a VERY VERY good chance it is period. What is etched or engraved on it may or may not be period.

Again,this is not a parts dagger, no it's a complete fake.All is new produced.

Wotan,perhaps you can hold this one on a show this year in your hands and then you see clearly-and i am absolutely sure , than you are with me.
Houston,i think i know your thougts: you see this amazing dagger and you can't believe that this is a fake,but it's trueness, but for pacifier : when you hold in hands,than it is very easier as on the photos

hello this dlv dagger are 100%FAKE i have see this dagger in france in the years 1975 ,1980,but very dangerous fake in extra quality! for me all the daggers that i have see with the 1936 on the tang are 100%FAKE ,i have see ,ss33,napola,dlv,rlb, all in very good working !
best regards from france
patrick

Hello all,
I have done a bit of research into the fittings, castings, and parts used by different manufacturers of these dagger and I personally feel that the first dagger (Luneschloss) pictured is a parts piece. The blade is bad, but the scabbard and scabbard fittings are classic SMF production. The crossguard however appears to be a Wayersberg version.
The "Wayersberg" dagger pictured later is a more complete fake, especially in the area of the scabbard and it's fittings. The blade MAY be good, but the crossguard it not the type that is normally seen on Wayersberg paices, and I suspect may be a complete fake as well...
I think that both are parts pieces...
These daggers are often more difficult to "diagnose" than others because the differences in the fittings are more subtle, however, I believe that most of the "fakes" that we hear about when it comes to these daggers are in fact parts pieces, usually with a bad blade and parted out fittings.
Good hunting,
Johnny

hello jhonny i agree with you on the PDL the scabbard is certainly original and some other parts also! this is very difficult for a young collector to see this FAKE , i have buy my first dlv in the year 78 and i have buy this PDL for an original!
best regards
patrick

The scabbard is fake too.

Here are a few shot's more.Crossguard center.

1936 tang marking.

Throat.