Hello collectors.
Do someone know the price for a MINT Postal protection Police (Postschutz) in Us $
Are they in the price range of 4500 too 5500 ?
Regards Lh 600
Many thanks Tiep
LH600,
If your going to get one...
Find an early one.
The early ones are serial numbered.
Also some come with unmarked blades. Try to find one that is maker marked. Only Weyersberg is the accepted "textbook" maker.
And since the grip emblem is on top or partially in the grip, and due to the style are easily damaged.
You may already know all this but just in case you didn't...here it is.
Regards,
-serge-
A dagger that has sat for a long time not increasing in value.Most forget the Postal Service was under the SS control.The daggers should be taken for there "Art Deco" value as well.When held in hand hard not to buy.
Yes, they are elegant and under valued.
vesuvio, I dont know about undervalued...curious why you should say so...If anyone out there knows some prospects on buying some Please let me know. The only ones I see around are basically $5000 there abouts. T
Tiep - its like Teno daggers, both officers and Hewers, when you compare the smallish production numbers they command (population based) far less than say SS daggers. Not to say that they cheap at all, meerley when comapred to more mass produced daggers appear not to appreciate in value as quick. IMO
It's all in the Mistique fellows! I too like the Postal Daggers form, but a dagger that was the property of some Hard Charging Waffen SS trooper just draws alot bigger crowd than one owned by the "mail man"!! The ghost of the Nazi propaganda machine rolls on.
Kevin
I've had my Postal for 10+ yrs,it cost me 3K at the time.I would have been better off buying an SS or two at the time or a chained SS.With the inflation rate and dollar drop there worth about the same 3K.I'm not sorry i bought it and would not sell it for 3K
The Postal dagger being a later production run edged weapon in the much smaller numbers produced than the SS, has always been the scarcer dagger to find.
Had the Germans given it a NSKK/SS type chain on it IMO it would have truly an stunning looking piece. The quality and design of the daggers "Art Deco" look is very apparent in this model.
Clearly a "must have" in any dagger collection.
-serge-
Someone needs to do an indepth article or chapter in a Johnson book on these daggers. There are some variations that need to be described and their purpose needs to be reviewed.
The variations that come up are the unnumbered shorter Officer version and the so called "enlisted man's version".
Also, there are differences in the knots that were issued with SOME of the officer daggers.
All in all, a good project for someone.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
@Ronald Weinand
what do You meen with "the so called EM version"?
I think the first version (scabbard with single hanger) was also for officers not for EM.
As I know all of them had been changed to the chained Modell as it was established.
What do You think about?
best
Medes
medes I think your getting your RLBs mixed up in here..T
There exists a couple of shorter, DLV size bladed knives that look similar to the officer Postschutz but with a different scabbard that resembles the DLV Flyer's Knife that has been attributed to enlisted personnel of the Postschutz initially (see Angolia's work).
I have since discovered that this particular dagger was introduced PRIOR to the Officer Postschutz and was worn by teachers at the Postschutz School in 1936, well before the introduction of the Officer dagger and this has been substantiated in photographic proof that is dated.
So, there is indeed another version of the Postschutz Dagger that was somewhat unknown to the collecting community.
Ron Weinand
No tiep, I talk about Postschutz-Daggers.
I know some photos with Postschutz-Daggers with
an scabbard without the middle fitting and only an single leather hanger (like RLB-EM) -but Postschutz. But these daggers are not known in hands of an collector. As I know all of the first (early) postschutz daggers were changed to the standard chained modell by replacing the scabbard. Thats why today the Version with the single-hanger scabbard does not exist. But what I wont to say at first is, that only PS-officers wear these daggers not EM.
Best
Medes
@ R. W.
My answer has crossed Yours...
I think we both speak about the same dagger.
But I havn`t know that these scabbards (and so also the daggers) should have an shorter blade.
At the photos I can`t see that. But maybe.
It is a fact that these daggers were worn prior the known Postschutz -Leaders dagger.
But I think these daggers are also Leaders daggers -but an early version who were changed later to the known chained model.
I think there are no PS-EM daggers.
Best
medes
These are what we are speaking about, but were worn as a single suspended, teacher's dagger. The man is wearing the rectangular Postschutz buckle that is attributed to an enlisted man, but with officer insignia on the collar.
I know he was a teacher in November, 1936, so the dagger was the forerunner to the Postschutz Officer and was an official dagger as you can clearly see the Postschutz insignia on the grip and the Postschutz style crossguard that was on the later officer version.
The scabbard resembles the EM RLB style that was issued at that time, so the size might be slightly larger than the DLV Knife.
The scabbard definately appears to be painted black and not leather covered, so the RLB EM style might be was was issued with the Postal.
The one in Angolia's book and others that I have seen over the years was the DLV Knife size and not original in my opinion.
The Dagger being worn in the original picture is too short to have been converted later to the Officer lenght, so these daggers in the RLB size was produced. Where are they today??
Ron Weinand
Man I cant imagine how $$$$$ they would be...I think this was discussed before with the photos, I stand corrected. Sure would be an incredible find to see one. T
I do remember reading (TJ ??) PS daggers were made of a combo of original and RBL (scabbard ) parts.Could this be the reason for early ones with the single hanger??
In the original 1936 dated photo, you can definately see the grip insignia for Postschutz and the Postschutz crossguard in good detail, so I believe that this dagger was not a parts piece, but an original issue piece for the Postschutz School.
Ron Weinand
"Where are they today?"
Yes thats the correct question.
And thats why I believe that those daggers all were changed in the later model. And If the blade of the early ones was shorter, It can be that the scabbard AND the blade were replaced.
Best
Medes
I thought you have/had one Ron?
Ron, do you think the types of knots/colors were rank or area? or ?? And were many knots converted to wha is encountered after the SS came into play? I have seen few with the orange but more it seems just plain silver(if you can call them plain) while yours may only be a guess I am eager to know what you think. And yes these are under rated daggers even the RLB officers early and converted style. And you know I ran through TJ's photo ref wearing the edged weapons (from 1975 i think was the print date, kinda old school now!! Even have his old bus. card in it)no section on postal man i overlooked that for god knows how long.
Oh damn! and I remember when the forum 1st fired up someone was tracking DRP numbers(and even Teno then) but did that ever come to a head??? BTW that was when many members cared about the site long B4 the pizzy stage were are at now.
Bret Van Sant
I don't know about the knots and have only come upon the photo of the Postschutz man wearing this dagger in the past couple of years. It came from a collector of belt buckles in Germany and the detail is super. I tried to buy the original photo, but no sale so I got a rather good copy.
It is unpublished, so you didn't miss seeing it in any book.
I have always hoped someone would come across the listing of numbers for the organizations. This COULD be possible as the TeNo origanization still exists in Germany today and someone may find some original paperwork at some point as I don't believe everything is destroyed, but don't know about the Postschutz numbers, especially since many of the daggers are not numbered and were issued later IMO.
Ron Weinand
quote:
Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
LH600,
If your going to get one...
Find an early one.
Hi Serge.
Very nice dagger you show pics of. A real stunning knife with numbered crossguard
I like this dagger a lot. Perfect German quality
Some days i have to buy me a Postal protection Police Postschutz knife for my collection.
I find a really nice one some weeks ago....but sold sorry. ( with number )
Thanks for all replys & great info in this tread . Many thanks.
Ed Martin wrote : A dagger that has sat for a long time not increasing in value.Most forget the Postal Service was under the SS control.
SS control
Best Regards LH
I am sorry but here are mixed up some very important facts.
First this certain dagger was not scheduled for "the mail man" but for a secret service like organisation, the postal protection service. There is not much documentaion about them but eg. they did protect secret projects of leading bombs per radio beams.
Second, to my best knowldge there is not the least documentation for an NCO or EM�s dagger of the postal protection service, those with the shorter blade and the RLB-EM/NCO dagger scabbard. There is no proof that they aren�t simply postwar put together parts daggers. EMs and NCOs did wear the well known (to experienced collectors) bayonet.
Third it is simply misunderstanding or mistake to think of and to mention a special "school�s dagger" for the postal protection service.
The certain photograph Ron concerns was found LOOSE in a pile of other LOOSE photographs only related to the postal protection service and this pile ALSO contained an album with photographs in relation of a postal protection service school or even better trainings course.
The CERTAIN photograph has NOT THE LEAST prooved relation to any postal protection SCHOOL. The certain photograph does show totally clear and detailed a postal protection dagger worn in a scabbard SIMMILAR to the RLB-1.mod LEADERS dagger with top and lower scabbard fitting, and single hanger ring. The only difference of the scabbard is that the RLB 1.mod leader�s scabbard was leathered, the one of the certain postal protection scabbard was laquered which is also clearly (!) to see.
Third, this certain photograph is NOT dated! A dedication on the reverse is dated (xx.xx.36) and also contains the reason for the dedication (again NO prooved relation to any school) and the name of the person and the person to whom the photograph is dedicated. But this date of the dedication does say NOTHING WHEN this certain photograph has been taken but for sure it was taken BEFORE 1936.
This all I have to know for sure as I am the owner of the certain, original studio quality photograph. Sorry, no I do not intend to publish it any more.
I am aware of at least one other photograph of this certain dagger beeing worn by two (or three) other officers of the early postal protection service.
There was no knot worn with this early leader�s dagger (at least in all of the by me own/known photographs).
I do own another photograph of a (later) postal protection service officer who clearly has a speckled knot attached to his later chained leader�s dagger. Sorry I also do not intend to publis this certain photograph.
These are facts, all other things might be pure speculations which I do have also some for my own
.
Regards,
It also should be mentioned that all Postschutz personnel were made MEMBERS of the SS-- they were just not under SS control. It then was known as the SS Postschutz.
IMO this mail man crapola, funeral dagger, and all other improper ficticious term crapola talk should be eliminated from the vocabulary of all serious collectors as it is a distortion of history and just plain old misinformation. Its just like saying there are only 200 Himmler daggers. Old, outdated ,improper, incorrect, but still used OFTEN by those who know better. Please STOP.
Amen Houston ,I think it's call "frazology" someone makes a word or statement and it becomes fact
Wotan & Houston
Many thanks for replyes and great info about this type of dagger.
Regards LH
I for one never ask that the image be posted or published I just made a note that in the years I have had the one TJ reference of wearing the edged weapons I never noticed that the postal dagger was not included in that reference till I looked again last night, my bad really. Wotan, maybe you can guess at the knots on the later daggers then? One thing is for sure we will never know all the facts or see all the variants of all this stuff.Bret Van Sant
cog-hammer, just for clearance, my remarks concerning not intending to publish these photographs here was not in your direction, no offence, just a general remark because I am sure some members here would like to see these certain photograph(s).
The "Wearing The Edged Weapons...." by TMJ has 3 volumes. In vol II/pg 70 there is a photograph of a postal protection service leader wearing his dagger with what is looking like a speckled cord portepee. As written, my photograph of the later dagger wearer dos show also this speckled cord portepee.
Regards,
Another addition is that sometimes the POSTSCHUTZ dagger can be found untampered with--with the regular Heer type Officer knot.
It could be that after the unit was absorbed by the SS the old Postschutz silver and orange speckled cord knot was no longer worn in favor of the all silver knot as worn by the Waffen SS and other SS units. OR-it could also be that the wearer in some cases had Officer membership in the WH reserves. In this case it would be also proper to wear the Heer type knot.
In any case IMO either knot is proper- and collectors can easily and correctly complete their dagger.
Of course we would all like to own the Postschutz Officer knot but they are very rare and very expensive especially in good condition.
I have owned only one in over 50 years of looking.
ALSO--I did NOT edit Wotan's above post in any way-some computer glitch.
What R. W. had sayed:
There is a lot to research about the postschutz dagger and of corse of the forerunner.
I know both photos who wotan is talking about.
And fact is: they show en early PS-Dagger with single hanger. And fact is too ,today they are not to find! All the early PS-Dagger bearing a number, so the Postschutz had full control to demand them back.
Best
Medes
Here is the Postschutz School Dagger in wear in November of 1936. Note the grip insignia, Postal crossguard and RLB EM style scabbard. I am posting this picture against my better judgement at the request of others to satisfy those who need to see the proof.
Ron, as stated, please read my post, there is not the least proof that the wearing member of the postal protection service was related to a school and this certain dagger is a "school" dagger!
Also there is no way to proof WHEN this certain photograph really was taken beside it was BEFORE the date of 1936!
BTW I DO OWN the original of this certain photograph and therefore can also read the text on it�s reverse.
Regards,
Thats one of the photos I know for this model, but at an other the blade is shown from the side and there it is visible that the scabbard seems to be longer then the RLB-EM scabbard.
From German sources, I have been told that the uniform the man is wearing is only used by the Postschutz schools. The date you gave me, so I can only say what you told me.
Ron Weinand
Interesting topic guys. Just for fun, here is a postschutz visor that I recently acquired. It goes nicely with my postschutz dagger.
Doug
Here is a close-up of the insignia.
Doug
Beauty of a visor and I would think rare
The orangish of your cap is spot on for color of the knot! I hate to make guess work out of what is not known but, What does anyone think of the center fitting on (wotans image that Ron posted) that dagger is just missing??? I was looking at TJ current offering and noted he had a non DRP stamped and non numbered leader dagger with 9 and 11 configuration for the chain???? and the chain where it attaches to the clip has rings not what I normally see. The small little bent over keepers(hell I dont know what to call them!!!) The clip looks a bit thin where the chain attaches also??? anyone throw me a bone on that dagger??? whats the what there?
Bret Van Sant