Hello everyone how much value does a naval ivory grip add to a WW2 dirk? thanks cheers and best, Ryan

Ryan
Is this a trick question??
Have a safe 4th.
Ed

Hi Ed not a "trick" questing inquiring into how much added value does an ivory grip add to a dagger naval, heer or Luftwaffe I am attempting to determine a reasonable price on a few daggers. As of now I can only find first world war naval dirks being offered for sale. I purchased them with the owners un aware that they were ivory hence my question lol cheers and best, Ryan

does an ivory grip add $1000 generally to the price ?

I believe Tom Johnson had some unfinished ivory heer grips on his site three years ago for $800 ?? or more

Ryan
I have only seen 6 or so real Ivory grip Navy's in person. They do bring at least a thousand to 2000 to a nice Navy, with paper work.
Tom W always has one or two. At the SOS hey are almost double value all the time. I never see a beater with Ivory, always a real nice dagger.
I just assumed you knew that, sorry for the trick thing.
Ed

Hi Ed no worries, I wasn't offended LOl I appreciate your reply. I have an early Weimar pattern naval with generic pommel ivory grip the owner did not know what they had when I purchased for $800 even has early patina heavily silvered thin portepee in original tie.... I'm guessing its worth $2500 Thanks cheers and best, Ryan

I remember having this conversation years ago with Tom Wittmann. I think it depends on the type of dagger but generally speaking the figure I was told was $1000-$1500.

It’s always good to double check the fitting of these grips as loose grips do get sold occasionally and are inevitably cobbled together with period parts upgrading a possibly bland dagger.

Almost all the Ivory griped daggers I have seen have been very nice original daggers, and correspond with the price.
It also helps if there is paper work for the Ivory.
Sounds like a nice dagger Ryan, super find.
Ed

Thanks Billy and Ed, I appreciate. Ed if you want to send me your email to rsellick@rogers.com I will send you pictures of the dagger should you want to post them here cheers and best, Ryan

I'll post them, Ryan. dave@germandaggers.com

Ryan
That is a nice looking hilt, with a nice toned portepee. Even with the plain blade, I would think it will be of interest to a lot of collectors.
You should let Dave show it. I could try to forward your pictures to Dave if that is ok.

Posting for Ryan

More

Thanks for posting Dave, thanks for the kind words Ed. Yes the portepee is extremely heavy and silvered. The wrapped tie sections that have over lapped have protected the sections beneath, which remain silver and untarnished....indicating a 80 ++ tie I would imagine an early 20s piece upgraded with the generic pommel unfortunately my pics don't pick up the fine graining to the grip under a loupe it looks outstanding sits very tight in the scabbard cheers, Ryan

I'm not saying that this piece is or isn't Ivory, I would need to see it in hand, I will say that I have not ever seen this finish on an Ivory grip before, perhaps it's just the photo's making it look odd.
Just my opinion and I am by no means condeming the dagger in any way. Perhaps some clearer pictures might help.

Gary

It does have a Bone look to it, that would add quite a bit to the cost also.

Gentlemen,

I wonder if daggers with ivory grips are not gonna become extremely difficult to trade in the near future?

CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of wild fauna and flora) certificates are more and more demanded here in Europe; even for antiques and objects of art, that contain just small (and real old) ivory parts.

It currently results in markets getting flooded with ivory items, as owners don't want to get stuck with them forever and certainly don't want their valuables to get confiscated when sold and/or exported...

What do you think?

Herman

PS: this means that bone grips are probably a safer option nowadays...

Herman,

I think the biggest problem will be between countries and continents where postal services or couriers are used ... and good can be impounded for examination. Otherwise, it depends on the country.

Hi Gary and Ed under a loupe it does appear to be bone, as opposed to ivory I don't know if this helps or hurts value thanks for pointing this out cheers, Ryan

Ryan
I would not think it changes the price over Ivory. But to each his own.
I do believe that Bone is more stable, and will hold it's value.
Ed

Concerning ivory parts on our appreciated daggers THIS is exactly what I have tought too. I have heard of already severe difficulties in Europa concerning officially (auctions, well known dealers) trading ivory gripped daggers and other artefacts. And - with respect - if I read the totally wrong described origin/age in CITES docs of one of the real big dealers I have my serious doubts if this way is working.



CONCERNING THE GRIP OF THE DAGGER SHOWN HERE IN THIS THREAD: Collector fellows, the certain grip looks to me - only from these pics - like typical "milk stone". The overall fine crackle and the superfucial muddy discoloration are typical for milk stone. I hesitated because milk stone is not a material normally seen on navy grips (the come by from time to time at army daggers) but the combination with the plain blade and the chamber piece number could explain the "cheaper" grip material. Also the early scabbard could be a hint to the certain material - a time when experiments with this certain material have been done. Just my two cents,
regards,

under a loupe the grip has hundreds of tiny serations of scratches its construction is perfect and to the naked eye and un initiated appears to be just an aged celluloid grip. cheers and best I can't remove to check further as the portepee has been on soooooo long that it has almost molded to the contours of the grip I have shown to Paul Hogle in hand.... he liked it cheers and best, Ryan

Hi Wotan et al I have taken x10 magnification pictures of grip I will forward for posting I have checked out several Galalith grips on heer daggers posted this grip does not resemble milk stone as pictured on these daggers Paul Hogle examined in hand and we didn't consider milkstone either but rather ivory or possibly bone I hope to visit him again next week and can present for a more detailed examination if required IMO it does not look to be a man made material thanks for all input....cheers and best, Ryan

Ive sent images for posting under even higher magnification cheers

For Ryan

I've owned old carved scrimshaw and this is what it reminds me of I also had an old walking stick with a carved bone handle and I remember that it had all of the little serations IDK cheers

Any way to remove the Pommel and peek at the top of the grip??
That would not hurt the Knot, but give you a look at the top of the grip to help determine the material.

Just did looks natural material, bone ?? does not resemble milkstone appears very hard

I have seen old white Army grips made of Galalith that look like that

I am taking to Paul Hogle on Wednesday and we will examine and scrutinize it more closely closely I dont want to present it as anything that it is not Thanks everyone, cheers and best, Ryan

Hello, here are pics of my 1st republic Austrian luft defense dagger with galalith grip. I think it does resemble very well.
Regards,

Thanks for posting what is the exact composition of Galalith does it react to heat cheers, Ryan

Will it react to a heat test, being basically an early form of plastic....

Hey Ryan,
I agree Ivory it is not. Bone, not sure from the pics. I see veining maybe to much but no pits. Maybe the best way is to shine a black light on it. Bone and Ivory will shine but plastic will not. Let us know what you see. best!

Thanks will provide the update and verdict on Wednesday cheers and best, Ryan

Hello, read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galalith about reaction to heat and the chemical composition.
Regards,

with thanks and appreciation to all who commented Galalith cheers

Ryan
No Ivory, No Bone, no problem.
Avery nice Navy with ALL the look a person could want.
If this Navy will not bring a good price, we all better think about what we are doing in this field of collecting.
You should do just fine, a great looking dagger IMO.
Ed

Hi Ed thanks for the kind sentiments Paul liked it alot and purchased it had "the look" cheers and best, Ryan

This is a galalith grip and not ivory or bone. Rather scarce as this material manufactured from milk was used in the late 1920s and 30,s as a substitute for ivory which became expensive as Germany lost it’s colonies in 1919. The pattern 1929 naval dirk called for a white grip and many materials were tried, this being one of them. The checkering you see in close up is characteristic of this material as it ages.

"material manufactured from milk "

I'm no dagger man but when I read the above I thought 'no way'!! Went back and read this interesting topic. Wotan of course had the following answer! Check the link he posted in page 1 of this topic.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galalith

The Galalith grip is how you can tell if your Austrian AF dagger is original. The reproductions feature wood grips painted white.

This is what Ivory looks like on a grip.

Gary

Gary
What a lineup, those look , well, I really can't seem to find the right word, beautiful, just beautiful.
Ed

Hey Gary,

Absolutely. Just gorgeous.

Thank you guys, its a passion of mine.

Gary

Gary
DITO !!!
Ed

Gary, show us your 2nd lufts.

John