I'm new to the forum so hello to everyone.

so is this dagger a good one or not?

more

Welcome to the forum.

Clemen & Jung made a small number of KM daggers & most of these will show a stamped logo. I believe there are some that will show the etched logo on yours that were period constructed. The issue with this item is some were constructed postwar. Many collectors avoid C&J KM daggers with this somewhat crude looking logo.

I held one of these a year or two ago & it was very nicely made & well constructed so I had no issues with believing that one was pre-1945.


Part of the answer as to whether your dagger is period is the quality of parts & how they fit together. Can you post a picture of the dagger assembled? Are the parts nicely fitted & tight?

Hello there, thanks for your reply.

I've purposely not showed pictures of the blade, because I wanted to know if the dagger/fittings were right. For what it's worth it feels like a good one to me.

However the blade on this dagger by all accounts is rare 'if' it's right. I will post pictures of the blade tomorrow.

Blade

Hello Davesmedals,
the blade is a fake without any doubts. The dagger itself is a part dagger.
Best,
Oleg.

Hello Oleg,

Thanks for your reply, I'm not suggesting your wrong for one minute here, but can I ask why your so sure it's a fake?

Thanks in advance

Hello Davesmedals.
The blades of the KM daggers with such a motive are well known fakes. You can see some examples here
https://www.kriegsmarinedolch.de/kopien/

What about a logo, please take a look at the screenshot from this forum I took a few years ago

So? Are all C&J long sub blades fake?? Or are there real ones?? Sometimes takes a lot of posts to get to the truth. Not saying anything, I'm a dummy! Ed

Yes, there are. Although this is not a long submarine, but a battle ship. It does not matter.
Best,
Oleg.

hello davesmedals ,
this problem of TM and blade is well explained in the book "exploring the dress daggers of the german navy" from T. Wittmann , page 262. It is written that blades with TM in a single oval circle are post war production.
jim.

After some correspondence with Thomas Johnson, he said the only way he could be sure would be if he had a WW2 period C&J catalog. I contacted C&J and they said:

Dear David,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your dagger from our company.
Sorry but we can?t help you for this matter.
Because the company Clemen & Jung was total destroyed after the world war 2.
After the world war, all documents, papers and material was destroyed.
After the war, the company Clemen & Jung produce only handcuffs and legcuffs, but not any kind of knifes or saber or rapier.

Sorry again.

Best regards

Clemen & Jung

I would have been surprised if any company officially confirmed the production of Nazi items after World War II.
Best,
Oleg.

True Oleg, but it was worth a try

Yes, Dave, of course.
Best,
Oleg.

I purchased this dagger private, and being really honest I never even realised the blade was different till it was pointed out to me. I showed it to 3 dealers who were quite excited about the blade. They all thought it was dead right. The fourth dealer I showed it to said "it's not a Clemen & Jung blade. So I then contacted Thomas Johnson who seemed unsure.

If it is wrong as suggested I would move it on, but I'd hate to find out at some point in the furtive that C&J did produce this bade in small numbers. So I'm still on the fence with this one to be honest.

OK Dave,
let me tell you something about this dagger. The eagle is a WKC one. The crossguard seems to be by Eickhorn. The scabbard looks similar
to Alcoso one but it has a wrong bands and eyelets. What about the blade: not the maker mark is the most important, but the motive. The eagle
with an anchor in the middle of the blade, the battle ship and the navy memorial in Laboe are the most known red flags. The dealers who were
quite excited about the blade, I don?t know how they make their business.Save your money, Dave. The dagger is nothing.
Excuse me for such a bad news.

Best,
Oleg.

Now that's what I wanted to hear, thanks Oleg

Are there any really good reference books, that show the difference of parts of dagger makers?

I did buy two really good books, one on SA/NSKK daggers, and the other on SS daggers. Although not cheap books, these are good.

PS - how do you message another member of this forum?

As long as you do not have any books, you can use my website www.kriegsmarinedolch.de
The use is free. Several daggers of all manufacturers are shown there. You can use Google translator if you don?t speak German.
With a messages it still does not work for me here.
Best,
Oleg.

I use Google Chrome as a browser and it automatically translates if I tell it to. It works perfectly with Oleg's site.