Help & thoughts on a Pre or Imperial Naval Dagger

Hi all,

I would appreciate all help with this Imperial or pre- Imperial Naval Dagger that I just picked up?
Possibly an 1870ish blade cut down and then put into and 1890ish or so dagger or what ?
Since it is named any chances of ever finding out who the owner was ?
Last it does have an Ivory handle and what would be the value ?
Many thanks in advance for your help.
Glenn ( [email protected] )

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I forgot to add that as you can see it appears the original owner of this dagger preferred to use only one hanger strap and had the bottom ring taken off ??

Any thoughts from anyone ? Flying Dutchman , VicDiehl ?
Thnaks,
Glenn

Hi Glenn,
is there any crown at the blade ? We need better close up pics of the grip and the name engraving as well as the etching.
Crossguard and crown are magnetic ?
Rgds;
Flyingdutchman

Flying Dutchman and I have been looking at this piece with interest. Based on the pictures we see, couple of things that stand out. The name appears to have been made by a pantograph machine. We know these machines were used during the Weimar period to identify depot daggers, Imperial engravings were usually done by hand. So is this an Imperial Dagger with a 20's blade? There is no crown on the blade etch. The normal Imperial blade has a crown, but there may have been exceptions.
Was it an 1890-1901 officer blade with center ridge and fullers. These rare blades exist but with a crown, are there exceptions even to this??
Could it have been a pre-1872 blade? A really nice etch for this early period and we would have to have a center ridge with fullers, did such a blade exist during that period?

If it is a 20's blade why is it mated to this hilt? Did the officer prefer to carry a shorten dagger so he added the blade to his dagger ??
Of course the felt buffer is nearly new.

The scabbard could easily be from the Imperial or Weimar period. I expect the hanger eye and ring is lost due to a brazing problem and not removed. But who knows?

We cannot find an Oppermann that served from the Imperial times throught the 20's but we not have all of the rank lists.

We have raised a lot of questions and not supplied any answers. Like we said an interesting dagger.

We would like to hear from those more knowledgeable about this dagger than us. Of course that history of this dagger is important, did it come out of the woodwork.

Hi Dutchman & Vicdehl,

Many thanks for your research and help.
The cross guard is magnetic , pommel & scabbard are not magnetic.
I will disassemble it and send photos of all the parts , name , etching and ivory handle tomorrow in the day light , best that I can.
It came from an older guy ( in his mid-eighties.We aksed him how long did he have it and he repiled for many years. We explained to him that it was suppsoed to have another ring and hanger on it and he said it was the way it is now as long as he could remember it.
The red buffer does look in very good shape except it is rather dry & stiff.
Again ,
Thanks,
Glenn

What jumps at me are the scabbard bands. I've never seen anything like this. The ball at the tip of the scabbard also looks odd. I have to say am not sure about this one. Definitively not a one looker.

Hi Stephane,

Thanks for your thoughts , I myself have absolutly no doubts as to it being authentic.

Glenn

Hey Glenn,

I'm no expert, but I have have an interest in Imperial Navy dagger. Watching this thread unfold will be a learning experience for sure. This is an unusual piece.

Hi Stephane,

Neither am I an expert I have owned several naval daggers including a U-9 dagger several years ago ( wish I had kept it ) but I have never seen one exactly like this one. I am sure this will be cery interesting and educational.
Thanks,
G

Magnetic Imperial navy dagger fittings were produced in mid 1916 to the end of the war. Generally the crossguard and pommel were both magnetic as the dagger was a production item.
Scabbards were also produced in iron during this period.

Daggers were produced with iron hilts and brass scabbards during the transition to iron. In order for such a dagger to hang correctly in a shorter scabbard many times a lead weight was placed in the bottom of the scabbard.

Hi Vicdehl ,

Many thanks. The best that I could come up with is that it is an 1870ish blade navy blade that was assembled circa 1809-1891 period . Sort of comes together I guess , but possibly I could be wrong ?
This to me is a very fascinating dagger , and honestly I really do not under it all correctly . I know that you guys knowledge super-seeds anjd I really appreciate your help.
As to the one hanger , maybe I am wrong , but I truely think the owner preferred only the top hanger and had the bottom remove.

Again,
Really appreciate your help.
GLL

Here are addition photos that you requested. Please look them over and advise.
Thanks
GLL

Attached picture MVC-001S.JPG