Hello Gentlemen.

I would like to show you my M1929 navy dagger by WKC. I hope you like it.

Best,
Oleg.

2.

3.

And finally with an other Reichsmarine dagger M1921.

... lovely dagger, nice photos. 👍

Best;
Hermann

Thank you very much Hermann.

Regards,
Oleg.

Oleg 2 very nice daggers you have there

Untouched 1929 Reichsmarine daggers are very rare. As they were worn until the late thirties they are also interesting for IIIR collectors. Even "wearing..." pics are rare but come by when you are lucky.
I have looked for decades to find a decent exemplar of such a dagger (mine is an EICKHORN with hammered scabbard).
What I can see from the pics you have a nice, untouched, depot marked M 1929 (first model navy) with the salty "was there" look, highly appreciated by a lot of collectors. The portepee is frozen into it´s place. A fine feature is the flawless grip (mostly these are broken on such early, much worn daggers).
Congrats to the piece (and also to the equally nice Mod. 1921),
regards,

Thank you for your kind words, Gentlemen.

Best,
Oleg.

It is post war dagger, poorly aged.

1.In what period WKC was marked by marine daggers with this type of mark?
And what mark near it?Both are frankenstein.

2.Forced wear of top eyelet.All the more at such big wear the wear must be not only at the eyelet back side,but in the front side too.A little bit less,but must be!But at front side i can not see even inkling of wear.

3.At the holes of pommel we can see patina,but nothing at the holes of the crossguard.

4.Fresh green patina at the pommel and under portepee are testimony about works for giveing the realness to the dagger,too.Green patina is impossible at old dagger surface.

5.The numbers at the scabbard have become plugged up with dirt,but decor close together is absolutely clean.

6.Acuate click is a distinctive feature of modern(postwar) product of modern Solingen deceivers.

Good luck!

Hello ukrainian, naturally each collector can have his own opinion about an item.
In my humble opinion your opinion does not conform to the facts of the dagger shown here.
I could registered, that also other, experienced members do not part your opinions you have already released here in the forum.
Please keep in mind (remember the thread Navy daggers for a book project) that discussion is ok but slamming would not be ok and would not be tolerated.
Regards,

somebody kick him off the forum

Hello Wotan,
what he's doing here is in my opinion not an opinion of a collector, but the trolling.
Regargs,
Oleg.

I agree with Oleg and Sean.

Danny

Hello Oleg67, seany, dr73, I´ve been already in contact with Dave because of the thread " Navy daggers for a book project". And I am sure he has an eye on this one too.
To have another opinion concerning an item (how wrong this opinion might be) is a legit opinion as long as it is within the forum rules which are the corner points for polite treatment.
Perhaps member ukrainian wants to learn something for himself, so be open even for such a POLITE discussion. He has put down several points concerning his doubts. If you don´t agree with them, tell him your opinion contrary to his points.
It is also legit to keep silent.
Regards,

I agree.

Answer his questions.

I am curious about the green stuff on the pommel and in the center of the crossguard when none at all is on the crossguard ends.

Dave,

I will try to answer the questions.

Sometimes we see daggers having such an amount of "wear" on the eyelet of the hanging rings. In many cases these huge ones were applied by the wearer to adjust the angle of the dagger and/or to avoid movement while being worn.

Brass is a metal alloy made of copper and zinc. The verdigris we see is normal on uncleaned pieces. Usually the handle has more of it because it's there were it is not easy to remove and it's the place where the hand of the wearer rests in most cases.

The configuration of the dagger parts is what I would expect. Especially the missing buffer plate and thick leather buffer is a typical configuration for WKC pieces of the early 1930's, the manufacturer mark is also correct for this time.

What strongly speaks for an untouched dagger is the sit of the Portepee. One can not fake that. This is true age patina, if one would try to remove that Portepee it is impossible to re-attach it. Most likely it would break on some areas, but even if not, it will never be the same.

I agree that every collector should have his own opinion, but in this case I believe - and indeed it is nothing more than a believe - that we are looking on a nice original 1929 pattern dagger.

Thanks for your time, Gentlemen.
Best;
Hermann

Dave, to my best knowledge, this certain green verdigris is mostly a bad sign on early, nickle silver party daggers as there it is often a sign of artificial aging.
Here we have a brass navy dagger and brass often, even in relatively short time can build up such patination.
Why the pommel and parts under the wrapped portepee are concerned member Flyingdutchman has already answered in a imho proper way.
Regards,

Flyingdutchman, Wotan, thank you very much for your support, Gentlemen.
As Flyingdutchman already said, is this manufacturer mark absolutely correct for the time. I just only would to add for the time of the Weimar Republic and of the very early 3. Reich until to the year 1934.
This logo is not common, but we can see it on a daggers and sabres of the reichsmarine, on the police bayonets of the Weimar republic as well as on a very early transitional DLV/LW daggers.
Please take a look at the pictures below. Thanks for your time.
Best regards,
Oleg.

Gentlemen,

I'm not a friend of comparing between the maker marks of different side-arms.

Here we have a dagger with the same configuration published in "Deutsche Marinedolche" which came out of the officers family and was produced in the early 1930's.

Thank you.
Best;
Hermann

Let me add a few points.

I finally found some pictures of a similar vintage dagger. Mine had the deluxe scabbard and the pommel had been changed to the TR eagle .. as many were. The vintage was confirmed by Tom Wittmann

The trademark is the same

And, the upper scabbard fitting had the same deep wear. The dagger had been worn frequently. Probably someone who remained on active duty between WWI and WWII

Sorry,forgot,

1.WKC mark must be at the blade obverse-WKC steady regulation from imperial dagger period.

2.Incomplete decor at the scabbard reverse.

Good luck!

It would be good if you told us where you getting all this information.

B*llshit!

Rolf Krebs imperial navy dagger by WKC on the website of Vic Diehl&Hermann Hampe. The logo is on the backside of the blade.

http://www.germanautoandaerocorps.com/navydaggers/html/krebs-dagger.html

The Ukrainian mentioned:

6.Acuate click is a distinctive feature of modern(postwar) product of modern Solingen deceivers.

By this I think he means: The release button is missing, and this one just releases by moving the dagger grip - which he claims is a post war invention. I have handled what I took to be an original KM dagger, late war, that didn't have a release button. Is this what the Ukrainian means, and what are the opinions on this?

Secondly, I see what he means by the incomplete hand work on the reverse scabbard. The balls at the end of the rays are not complete. A while back I posted a photo of an original HJ Leaders dagger, that has a line missing on the pommel cap surrounding the swastika on the HJ logo. These things did happen when people were hand embellishing.

Finally, I am curious about people's opinions on the patina. I have seen traces of green come through in original party daggers, I imagine because of traces of copper in the nickel silver. I wasn't sure if I had read Wotan correctly. He says that green verdigris is 'a bad sign'. I've always thought is was a good sign.

I just went to read the thread, Navy Daggers for a Book Project, but sadly the thread is closed, so no one can counter the assertions made by the Ukrainian. Wouldn't it have been good to see obviously original daggers by these makers posted by advanced collectors to show that they do exist. Ukrainian makes a sarcastic but accurate point when he writes that no one can help the chap with his initial question! I know this guy's comments are abrasive to say the least, but I wish we could see them answered with facts to prove they are wrong.

@Arminius, each discussion, how wrong one side might be, is ok and makes our hobby, our forum vivid. This discussion here is a good example. In accordance with Dave the mentioned thread concerning research for a navy book project has been closed because improper words had been used by several parties which is against the forum rules.
The request for material and the mail adress is still readable in the closed thread, so the main purpose of the thread can still be reached.
BUT feel free to discuss a raised opinion from the closed thread even here if it in a serious and polite manner.

You -the forum members- have noticed for sure that the thread is carefully watched by Dave and me and violations of the forum rules will not be tolerated.
Each serious discussion is most welcome.

Regards,

Great, thanks Wotan. I am really curious about these Kriegsmarine dagger makers now. I've just taken down Tom Wittmann's book on the subject and will take a look through it this evening. Perhaps we could start a new thread on KM dagger makers soon.

Relatively the WKC mark at obverse not at reverse go to any forum (including warrelics forum) or any sale site or your favorite Wittman book.

Relatively incomplete decor at the scabbard-look at the photo closely.

I think you can see the photo posted above can't you? It seems to show a WKC logo stamped onto the reverse ricasso.
Did you nor read the comment I left above about hand enhancing anomalies? They do occur on all types of daggers, original daggers. You have sharp eyes, but please consider that when hundreds of daggers were enhanced by hand, there will always be signs of human error. It's different if the pattern was stamped by a die, but what you were referring to was hand cut.

Hello Arminius,

ukrainian has a follow problem: has no knowledges of from what he talks. He has different mixed information in his head and cannot analyse and systematise this information. A good example in addition is his post to the logos WKC on the front side of the blade. He speaks about the Reichsmarine dagger and does not know at all which logos existed in this time! He has heard something, however, he does not know what, where and from whom. I believe that he has heard nothing about that hundred of daggers were enhanced by hand.

Best regards,
Oleg.

Either that or all our daggers are phoney!

Tell me, has he ever posted any photographs of his own collection for public scrutiny?

I like debate, and actually enjoy his observations, but I am sorry that he seems to have a particular obsession with your Navy collection.

Oleg67, I see it the same way you do and some background information and discussion is not bad but try to focus on daggers not on persons. If you and Arminius feel it necessary to discuss about persons the pm way is the best for it.

I am sure that it is not easy to learn something and to express something when you have a totally different script and language and so a very limited access to experienced and serious sources.

Regards,

Hi guys,
I think that I have an interesting news. A collector friend of me has recently found a same navy acceptance mark like at the blade of the dagger. Probably is it a mark of the Marinewaffenabteilung, which existed before Marinewaffenamt. We are looking for a list of these naval acceptance stations now.
Best Oleg.

Hello Oleg,
thank you for the additional information.
Regards,

I just bought a model 1921

I just bought a model 1921 navy dagger on my last hotel buy. After doing hundreds of hotel buys this is the first one I have ever bought. It has the black handle,maker marked blade but is not engraved.
thanks
Bob

Hello Bob,
congratulations. Would you like to show is your dagger?
Best, Oleg.