Guys

Can you take a look at this piece please and let me know what you think, I'm of a mind that it has just been made, I really do not like the mark, the whole dagger looks new, there isn't any patina on it, no wear at all. I haven't got anything against Tom Johnson, I've had numerous dealings with him over the years, just want to know if the dagger is good or bad so I can learn.

http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/?shopp_product=imperial-navy-dagger-wportepee-29153

Gary

Gaary:

I share your disquiet.

Here is a picture of mine.. note the difference in maker marks.

John

well,i would say it's good IMO.
I don't think the fakers can create quality like this.
Probably unissued dagger,i like it.

John, That's one fine navy dag, thanks for sharing your collection as always.

bad piece.
Best;
Flyingdutchman

Yes, a very fine quality reproduction IMO.
Let's not discuss the finer points openly or we give the criminals the advantage to modify.

I suppose this thread will die a death like all the other threads regarding high end fakes that pass through big dealers hands, they must know it isn't right, surely they haven't fallen that far since TJ took a back seat or have they?. This is not the only piece that isn't right on their site, it's a shame.

Gary

Not the 1st time and won't be the last

No, that is right and the subject of private discussions quite recently. As is so often the case it is all about the money. Ultimately that was the demise of this pastime.

Just another case with TJ. I hear they have been getting more returns than usual.
That daggers is a mint fake, like the portapee (IMO).

If you like that dagger, but don't want to give TJ $5K+,
there's a E-ban dude going by different handles, one was 'animal undertaker', out of Solingen (of all places). He will fix you up one for around $1,400., just tell him you want the Eickhorn WW1, 'back-to-back' squirrels. - ( Gary, not a dagger for you mate).

Serge

Gary - - Why not call or email him and ask / explain ?

Serge, that "I hear they have ..... " crack is unbecoming of you. You are a great and respected dealer with good things for sale. No need for posts like that

Serge.
Never a dagger for me, I was just trying to be a little subtle in bringing to the markets attention.

Dave.
I have done all that with another dagger before, I got a "Thank you we will look into it", I do not think I'm the right sort of person to inform them as I have not been in the hobby long enough.

Gary

Serge, that "I hear they have ..... " crack is unbecoming of you.

If it is true, where's the problem ? Do the big names have special priviledges, I think not.

I have had many dealings with Tom over the years, and never been disappointed. Yes I have had one or two pieces which did turn out to be not quite as expected, but true to his word there has never been a problem in returning for a full refund even a considerable time after the sale.
Both Toms in my view have contributed more to this hobby than any other individuals, and I believe would never knowingly sell anything that was not 100 percent. Of course mistakes happen in any field, and sadly the passing years inevitably mean a loosening of the reins in both camps. I am not qualified enough to pass judgement on the piece in question, but we're I looking for an item of this calibre I would not hesitate to buy, knowing that should a return be required after a hands on inspection (or consultation with more knowledgeable collectors) it would be accomplished with no fuss or recrimination.
"Speak as you find" ........
Paul

Well said, Paul.

Never buy based solely on reputation or longevity or assumption of some kind of holy knowledge by the seller. Buy based on your own knowledge, your own references and your own fellings. It doesnt hurt to deal mainly with honourable people who will listen to and address your concerns and issues after the fact.

John

I wanted to take a look at this dagger too but unfortunately the dagger has been removed from Johnson's website. It shows once again that it's never a good idea to post a link on a forum. Sooner or later the link will become useless. If anyone has saved the pictures of the dagger that has been debated, please post them here so other collectors can learn something from this thread as well.

Danny

Dagger removed says it all

Easy does it Gentlemen. Let's be fair and kind. It just goes to show you how good some of the crooks are getting. Rare daggers are the best target for forgers. Demand often outstrips supply and most people have only handled a few making it easy to fool someone with a decent reproduction. My dealings with Tom has shown he and his team to always be professional and honest. He has the best return policy in the industry IMO. So they made one mistake. Put that in the context of decades of setting a high bar in support of this hobby. Can we all say the same of ourselves?

"there's a E-ban dude going by different handles, one was 'animal undertaker', out of Solingen (of all places). He will fix you up one for around $1,400., just tell him you want the Eickhorn WW1, 'back-to-back' squirrels. - ( Gary, not a dagger for you mate"

Serge

Serge, this guys handle is now specialagent11 and still hails from Solingen. He sells IMO questionable Imperial Navy Daggers which people have purchased based on his history for between $800 and $1220. Also Water Protection Police for $800. Who in their right mind thinks you can get a genuine rare dagger for this price? The lure of wanting to score a real deal can overpower the uninitiated. Shameful .

With respect to the dagger originally posted by Gary, I agree that it's troubling that someone with as much experience as TJ would list a modern fake as period. That said, I think we're all capable of making mistakes, even the gurus. The good thing is how Tom handled it, it was removed which is what we'd all hope is what would happen.

Regarding the clown on Eban who sells modern KM, Imperial Naval , DRK & Wasserschutzpolizei daggers at marked down prices, he has always had at least 4 handles including "animalundertaker", "specialagent11" & "porschezelt". There's at least 1 or 2 others that escape me now. Apparently he does accept returns within 2 weeks but judging from his feedback, most people don't know they've been stung. He also sells rare dagger hangers as well.

The reproductions of the high end pieces like these Imperial daggers
are getting better and better. With the passage of time they will be virtually indistinguishable from the originals. The knowledge passed on by the collectors of today in books will become invaluable to those who make be brave enough to indulge themselves with collecting.
There is just too much money at stake today and like I said before the greed and rewards to the scumbags who make these fakes will be the death of the hobby.

It really will become only safe to collect the common items where there is no real profit to make and the originals are in plentiful supply.