Hello I want to thank BISMARK On this website for the translation of this etch which convinced me to try to acquire it. I got it from the son and grandson of the vet who recently passed and this was stored away for no telling how long. He was in Patton's Army. It'real. Hammerd scabard, Portapee never been off, nice old patina, blade cleaned up nicely.
Please let me know what you think guys?
Oliver

The other side of blade

Hard to compare such an unusual inscription.
But it looks nice.
Are the hangers included? It should be the silvered type.
Please show the whole dagger.

regards
Medes

No Hangers. The other pics I took are bigger than 111kb and won't upload. I will experiment and post more. And maybe then get an opinion of maker brand? Thank you
Oliver

More pics

more

1 more

#4

#5

Thats just lint from the rag, I should have wiped it off!

Ship etch

no knicks to edge, point is intact

Shame about the grip, but!

For me I like the history!

Any opinions on maker

Any more pics, please ask

Very interesting inscription... it seems a presentation from the admin. personnel of the Schlachtschiff Tirpitz to a senior administration officer, perhaps the ship´s Zahlmeister or similar, on the 25h anniversary of his joining the Reichmarine... and only a few weeks after the Tirpizt was commissioned!

Herr Weitze has a book that might provide some clues, or even the actual name of this officer:

"Reserve und z.V.-Rangliste für Marine-Verwaltungsoffiziere" (1945) That is, a rank list of d. R and z. V. marine admin. officers.

Its very likely that this Verwaltungsoffizier was either der Reserve or zur Verfügung, since he had already been in service 25 years.

Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine 1939-45 Vol. 1 has 3 pages on the Tirpitz inc. officers, but unfortunately no Admin officers.

Heres (probably) a photo of your man, together with the rest of the Tirpitz officers, sorry cant say which one Source: Axis History

Oliver, congratulations on a very nice & unique dagger. It looks like a Holler to me judging from the sailing ship etch, springy wire grip wrap and the scabbard bands.

Red

WOW! Thank you, Gustavo and Redbaron. The history is what I like! Check this photo out!
ON 5 MAY 1941 Hitler made a surprise inspection
of Bismark and Tirpitz when both were docked at
Ghotenhofen. This photo was taken that day on board Bismark! Thanks again!
Oliver

Congrats Oliver.
You finally got it in your hands, and a stunning piece it is.
There cant be many others like this.

Good catch.

The photo above is interesting as Hitler did not seem to have much time for the Navy and is mostly photoed with SS or Army or Luft units. Complete opposite from Kaiser Bill.

Dave

very nice piece,,,good score,,,Robert

Bismark: My heartfelt thanks. You gave me the info that started this. Thank You! True friend!
Oliver

You are welcome Oliver.
That's why we are here, to help eachother out.

A bit of research would narrow down the possibilites. Imperial Navy officers' rank lists and, probably easier to wade though as the navy was considerably smaller, any later Reichsmarine Rangliste are available.

The commission date of April 1 (1.4.) will help as well.

There's also a specific Rangliste von Beamten der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine für das Jahr ..., rank list for navy administration officials as well as Ehrenrangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine from 1930.

At 25 years, the officer's rank would have be relatively high so, again, the process of elimination should make an identification possible.

Comparing that to the list of Tirpitz officers in 1941 should give you some names, and perhaps only one who would be your man.

The other question might be if the "Verwaltung" refers to the recipient's position or the awarding body. In other words, the dagger may have been presented by the administration of the Tirpitz.

Usually, a presentation is made by an entity or individual so the ship's administration could have given the dagger to the recipient.

There's certain logic to presume that's the case here. If an officer celebrated his 25th jubilee while serving on the Tirpitz, the award would come from its commanding body, the ship's administration.

This will end up as a very exciting story I'm sure.
Here's some more pics from 5 MAY 1941 aboard the "Bismarck".

.

..

I tend to lean toward Gustavo's thought about it being presented to a senior member of the Verwaltung staff. However, Paul makes a very good point that it could have presented BY the Verwaltung staff. (On a whim, yesterday I looked up the ship Captain's service record [Karl Topp]. He indeed started his service on 1 April, but it was 1914, not 1916.)

After researching many pieces over the years, I've come to one certain rule: nothing is certain. It could even have been presented to someone off of the ship. I'm not terribly familiar with Verwaltung structure, but my understanding is that they had a unique reporting structure. So this could have been presented by the Verwaltung staff of the Turpitz to a senior member of the Verwaltung service off of the ship. I would still guess that it was presented to someone on the ship, but without research you can't be sure.

Actually, I should correct myself. There is another certainty: this piece is very cool. With some dedicated research it might be possible to learn the identity of the original recipient. Good luck!

What a nice hard to find Navy with a dedication tied to the Turpitz. Congrats!

I agree with Red Barron that the features of the dagger appear to be of Holler. However the typical of Holler etched Navy blades -small circles at the base of the catch side of the blade etch- seem to be missing.

-serge-

Due to the sense of the etched dedication the dagger should have been presented from the "aministration (men) of TIRPITZ" to any NCO with portpee or an officer. Nothing more nothing less.
But it is highly asumable that the man to who the dagger should is dedicated also should have been member of the daministration.
Regards,

I want to thank Robert, Dave, Paul, Bismark, Etched Blades, Serge and Wotan for the kind words. The pictures are amazing! To take the time to ponder the inscription's purpose and sources cited to check in order to narrow it down is very informative and I appreciate it.
Oliver

Here's another name: Schiffsversorgungsoffizier Fregattenkapitän Kurt Voigt. He was the ship's supply officer - administration.

Here he's wearing a long service cross and medal, possibly an 18 year cross and 4 year medal. So this could be circa 1938 or so. The administration branch insignia is on his sleeve.

I couldn't find his dates but perhaps someone can research him and see if the 1.4.16 date comes up.

Paul; Very intersting, yes I saw him to. It's just
that my first impression was he seemed to young
for the timeline. This is fun! I am a history buff! I'm glad I came to this website!
Thanks, Oliver

In the first photo, as Korvettenkapitän, his decorations include the 1934 Honor Cross indicating he was in the military during World War 1. It's the version for non-combatants without swords - so, he didn't see action but if he perfomed administrative duties at the time, that makes sense. The WW1 service reconciles with 1.4.1916.

The long service awards would indicate 22 years service at the time of the photo. If 1938, his 25th jubilee would be 1941. And, he's an administration officer.

Someone will hopefully have a Imperial, Reichsmarine or Kriegsmarine Rangliste or other archival resources to get more biographical information.

You may have found this photo as well showing Voigt (in glasses looking a tad weathered and older) with Topp.

In any case, for the moment, I think Voigt is a candidate.

WOW! You are just stunning me with your knowledge and info I need to calm down and digest this. For me this is as good as it gets!
Thanks Paul!
Oliver

I found additional information on Kurt Voigt.

He left the Tirpitz on 31. October 1942 and eventually became Fleet Administrative Officer in the Navy High Command, Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine. Promoted to Kapitän zur See, he was killed in an air raid on Kiel on April 3, 1945.

The raid by the US 8th Air Force 100th Bomber Group targeted the Kiel Harbor and sub pens.

Thanks Paul, I found a german language website where as of 12.08.07 Jurgen Voigt the son of Kurt in the picture! wwas alive and well. He posted pictures of himself and his dad with a lot of biographical info but I can't read German. I will try to post 3 pics. 1st is Kurt with alot of high ranking officers from Tirpitz.

2nd is a picture of Kurt wearing a dagger taken in Norway in 1942

3rd is a picture of Jurgen Voigt son of Kurt, modern day. I am attribting these 3 photos to
Jurgen Voigt

You should try to make contact with him and see if he can help you out with info on the dagger.

I'm way ahead of you...I've already sent a message to Juergen Voigt and am hoping he'll send a reply. I was going to wait until I heard back to present a surprise...perhaps confirmation that the dagger belonged to his father, Kapitaen zur See Kurt Voigt.

I haven't heard anything back from Juergen Voigt at this point but it may be that he is no longer active on the website or, of he is, only checks in periodically.

We'll see.

Meanwhile, Treedctr, WHere are you located? Can you give more details about the dagger's acquisition? Can or did the source provide some background as to where and when the dagger was found?

Thanks Paul, I am in Mississippi. I have been corresponding with the son and grandson of the recently passed vet. They are cleaning out the house and attic on weekends to get it ready to sell. They promised me that when they got to the box with his medals, service info, pictures of him in uniform etc they would let me know and I really want to follow that lead out. They are legit but the only facts I know at this point are that he was in Patton's Army. I will continue to pursue that on this end. Thank you for all you have done to help! Oliver

Perhaps the veteran's history will provide another piece of the puzzle. His unit may have been in or around Kiel or in the city or town where Kurt Voigt was from. In Juergen Voigt's diary entries he mentions his mother's hunt for food after the war so perhaps the dagger was traded for provisions at some time.

Or, as in many cities, all weapons were required to be turned over to the occupying authorities. Often this resulted in everything from antiques to dress swords and daggers along with military arms being thrown into piles in the citiy square to be destroyed (rolled over by tanks)or taken as souvenirs by GI's..