There are so many different kinds of tunics... Is there a site that'll break it down in a list forum? For each division and each rank and so on?

what are you trying to figure out?

There are some basic styles, based on first year of production (M36,M40, M42, M43, 44, etc)
that progressed as the war went on, any one could theoretically be used by any division and any rank that existed within those years. They were also frequently modified by their owners.

There are a few good books on the subject:
Cloth insignia of the SS
SS regalia
Uniforms of the SS
and certainly several others, but I know of no dedicated site.

"for those who seek salvation easily...there is little comfort to be had from the great teachers"-Walt Lippman

I guess what I'm looking for is...

What was the tunic's name that the SS wore on a daily basis? Their standard duty uniform I guess you could say.

Look up any of the SS leaders and they are wearing different tunic's in their photo's. I know there must be like a parade tunic, duty tunic, and so on like the police have today, but could someone tell me which one is what?

quote:

Originally posted by Marker227:
I guess what I'm looking for is...

What was the tunic's name that the SS worse on a daily basis? Their standard duty uniform I guess you could say.

Unless you can be more specific, that simple question is not so simple. When you say "SS," are you talking about Allgemeine or Waffen SS? When you say "on a daily basis," are you talking about in garrison, at drill, or in the field? What sort of unit are you talking about, performing what sort of duties, at what time of year, in what region or climate? The "basic" uniform could be any one of a number of styles, many of which were made in different models over the years. The subject fills many volumes.

I'll try to be more specific.

Can you tell me why Himmler has a variation of tunic's and do you know the names of them?

And when I said duty uniform I meant, what do the SS Generals/Guards wear in the field. When they are on-duty.

I'm trying to learn about the differences in tunics to expand my knowledge of WWII history.


Try these links.



http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Himmler3.png

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIPics/Germany/HeinrichHimmlerSalutesSS.jpg



I'm guessing one tunic is parade and one is not? If so, are they the same tunic, but different color?


I guess I can't be so general with the term SS. I wasn't aware that every SS Leader/General was broken into a division within the SS. I thought there was like the title "Head of SS" which would make me believe there was a general kind of tunic.


Heh, I'm learning already .

what you are seeing on Himmler is one black tunic, for the Allgemine-SS, and a field grey tunic for the Waffen-SS.

Generally, the Allgemine SS was a pre-war force, and they wore the black tunics ( not only for parade but also for "duty"). but there also were still a few "blackies" around during the war. The Waffen-SS started out as the SS-VT, and wore field grey tunics. The cut of the tunic varied, Enlisted men were issued uniforms while officers had to buy their own, creating an even bigger variance in style & cut. Many were tailored afterward as well. I have a Waffen SS cavalry officer tunic that was shortened, as it was the style of the time and more practical when on a horse.

But about 6 shelves of my library are devoted to the SS. it is a complex subject with conflicting regulations.

Here is a black one I own.

So does that mean each Division of the SS has it's own unique style of tunic?

I like your first tunic. It's in good condition and looks a little nicer than black. Very surprised you have a matching visor.

The black tunic was quite effective in the pre war days, with a certain "panache" hearkening back to days of the Imperial German Hussars. The field green tunic was created out of utility and to gain some respect from the Army, who didn't see the SS as much more than "asphalt soldiers" (until they actually got into combat with them, then they thought they were all nuts)

But its not so much a divisional thing, as it is a time frame thing. Things changed in very general time frame sections: Early (33-36), Pre-War (37-39), early war (40-41) Mid war (42-43) late war (44-45) and the often seen dreaded post war (46-today) as the war progressed, certain resources dwindled, and you see the material quality levels fall.

Although some SS division had their own unique things, the like the Handschar Division and a few others wore the Fez as they were Muslims.
The rest pretty much wore the same uniforms as the others. There were always anomalies, usually by high ranking individuals- Sepp Detrich somes to mind. But for most it was regulations and availability that dictated the style of tunic worn.

Again I would recommend getting some books on the subject, as it is a varied & complex issue.
Even some of the $9.99 Osprey series has some good information.

That's very interesting. I had no idea it was like this.

How much do Peaked SS Visors run these days?

The black visor with skull and eagle on the top is the death heads division?

The visors are also broken into 2 categories: waffen SS(green) & Allgemine SS(black), with officers and & enlisted versions in each.

All SS units wore the skull & eagle, the "deathshead" division wore a skull collar tab
(again, going back to the traditions of the Hussars)

As for prices; "if you have to ask..."
but around $4K-10K+ is the range for a REAL one. (fakes can be had for a slight discount)

That's so expensive....

Where should I start?

Buy some reference books, Go to shows, search the forums, find some knowledgeable collectors, and reputable dealers that will allow you to look at their stuff. Be sure to have anything checked out BEFORE you buy, but also make sure they stand by their return policies. Any dealer that is sure of his stuff will not mind the scrutiny.

Collecting SS is not for the faint of heart, it is quite expensive and it certainly can be a mine field. But it makes finding those rare original gems all that more special. Good luck-

Actually Jerry, after 1938, when the Allgemeine-SS switched over to the military gray-green, they too started to wear the gray-green covers on their headgear, thus, after 1938 you cannot categorically state that gray-green was Waffen-SS (only). Just a heads up...

Bill

I'm only 18 and I don't have tons of money. I'm sort of worried that when I'm in my 20's and I have more, things are going to be even more rare and even more expensive...

My main thing is to get a hat or tunic, but obviously I can't have that now due to funds.

I might have to start with a 9mm Luger which would run about 700-900 on a gun site (I've seen a few in that range).

These are the things I'm interested in.

Iron Cross
Visor
Armband
Tunic
Dagger
Luger
M44 Helmet (way too expensive and rare)

I'd like to have all of it for my WWII collection, but you can't have everything in life :P.

Well you're taking the time to learn and that is the important thing.

I have seen many older guys with tons of money that have been taken to the cleaners by unscrupulous dealers, and they still don't learn. It is better to have a smaller collection of originals than a large collection of questionable pieces.

You have a good plan, all of those items are certainly obtainable. Take your time, buy the nicest pieces you can afford, and you can always sell off to upgrade a piece.

We'll all be here to help along the way.

Might I suggest that you look at Army waffenrocks, as well as Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine dress jackets. These are priced right and will be going up, especially because of the recent book written about them. That way you could get into collecting earlier. It's not SS, but it's some really nice Third Reich German militaria.

Bill

Where's a good place to get these items?

Buy quality. Might cost more but is more liquid.

I think you have been given very good advice. Militaria collecting has turned into a big business. If you search the internet you will find a hugh number of dealers offering anything you want. But understand, the reason certain historical items command a high price to hold is because they are very very rare. I hope you look at this site closely before you buy anything expensive. There is a great deal of information for you here.... and caution. Regards.

I really appreciate all this help. You're all so helpful.

Has anyone of you bought any signatures from any high ranking officers? I saw Himmlers and it was like 900...Sheesh.

(edit)

You can buy post-war autographed photos of many of the Knight's Cross winners for a reasonable price, around $45 or so. The guys with the Oakleaves and Swords maybe a bit more. The wartime postcards that are signed are considerably more -- often over $100 and up to a couple of thousand, depending upon who it is. Be careful there too as there are many fakes, even post-war signed photos...

Bill

Marker, there are some great deals to be had here on our forum..to buy and sell there, requires you to purchase a one year membership.

It may well be the best value for money you see all year!

As well, some of the best collecting minds frequent these forums, and are usually available to answer questions.

One of the first things i would do if you like SS items, is to puchase John Angolias 'Cloth insignia of the SS' It's one of the real 'bibles' in the SS collecting world..

If I'm not mistaken, each sub division of the SS has their own uniform correct? Like obviously the SS 12th Panzer Division have different service tunics than the SS Boarder Police.

What about this...

Did they all have the same parade tunic?

Was there like a standard SS parade tunic?

The Waffen-SS was unlike the traditional German Army with a long history of pomp and ceremony. The Waffen-SS was born into war and therefore didn't have the long history. They did not have parade (or waffenrock) uniforms like the Army, Navy and Air Force. The Waffen-SS consisted of some 45 divisions, although most from 38-45 were nothing more than headquarters companies and brigades; never reached full divisional strength. Some divisions, and regiments within the divsions, had names and were authorized a cuffband. Many others did not. They used several uniforms over the war years, becoming simplier in manufacturing as the war made demands on materials. They used the M36, the classic SS M37, M40, M42, M43 and M44. The early inductees into the 4. SS-Polizei-Division wore their police uniforms but with SS insignia during a transition period. There is a distinctive 'police-green' compared to the Waffen-SS 'gray-green', which was the same as worn by the Army.

Bill

The Army waffenrocks jackets are nice but I can't find any on ebay or on other sites.

Why are these cheaper than a M34 Combat Tunic?

Here's an idea. Since you seem to like SS items, paper items are still quite reasonable. Someone suggested postcards, autographed or otherwise. Great idea!! The SS periodical, "SS Leitheft" and the SS newspaper, "Das Schwarze Corps" are both fairly abundant, and very reasonable, especially by SS standards. Original, period photographs and photographic portraits are another way to go that is fairly inexpensive. These guys have given excellent advice. Remember, you're better off with a simple original SS photograph than a fake SS general's cap. Besides, a period photograph is far more personal than other items. Best of luck.

Hi Marker..the most common infantry (white piped) waffenrock come up it seems every two weeks on Ebay..just keep your eyes open and check everyday!...

Normally I don't endorse any particular dealer but if you want to look at some nice Waffenrock tunics, check www.therupturedduck.com, Bill Shea.

Bill

whoua Nice Uniform !!!

sebastian.

Sheesh, this is all way too expensive for me :P.

My focus has changed to a waffenrock. I ordered a book on it today. I really want to buy one.

A wise choice!

Good luck,
Bill

I'm still having trouble finding "the one" I like. I don't have many links online to places to view the ones for sale.

Try the eStand on the WAF, Bill Shea (The Ruptured Duck) and Peter Whamond (The Collectors Guild). And take your time...

Bill

There are too many of them . Not sure which one I like most!

Nor do I know if what price they are asking is fair.



Whats the deal with the two little holes on the right breast? I've seen them in the same spot on a lot of Waffenrocks.

They are loops (not holes) for ribbon bars, so you don't have to pin them through the material. They will be farther apart for longer bars.

You will often find several sets on uniforms for different badges and awards, and their position and size are often a clue as to the wearer's awards.

What branch/waffenfarb are you looking for? Artillery/red is the most common. Panzer/pink is the most desireable and there for expensive. I've seen them for as a low of $750 on up to $2-3000. As with everything else, condition matters.

I thought this color was really nice, as well as the orange.(like the one i posted above) Other than that, I have no idea .

The Ruptured Duck and The Collectors Guide have very few Waffenrocks.

White/infantry is not that uncommon and you should be able to find one that fits your needs. The orange/recruiters is not seen often and would be awhile before you found one. I know a dealer who sets up at the local shows that has a recruiters tunic, I just can't remember if it's a waffenrock or parade tunic. He should be at the Allentown show this weekend.

It is sad, but it won't be long before somebody starts faking Waffenrocks too. I've noticed that after the book was published on these that more people are taking an interest.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Raymond:
White/infantry is not that uncommon and you should be able to find one that fits your needs. The orange/recruiters is not seen often and would be awhile before you found one. I know a dealer who sets up at the local shows that has a recruiters tunic, I just can't remember if it's a waffenrock or parade tunic. He should be at the Allentown show this weekend.

Most likely I would find my questions in the Waffenrock book I purchased (it's still in the mail ), but I'm going to ask anyway .

Waffenrocks can be from any branch of the Third Reich? When you say White/Infantry, what kind of infantry? Heer, waffen?

... what kind of infantry? Heer, waffen?

???

The Waffenröcke where worn from the Heer of the Wehrmacht.

Oh ok. I didn't understand that.

Then the book I purchased should help me out considerably.

That's like when my history teacher said the SA was the German Army. Which that isn't the case from reading Wiki.

The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine also had a dress uniform for formal occasions. Here is an example of a Luftwaffe officers dress jacket with white linen vest.

Bill

Very nice jacket.

Where do you all get your stands?

Officers Infantry Waffenrock with the rank of Leuntnant.

It is missing the 2 cuff tabs. It is complete otherwise.

$700

I'm not too sure if I want it because it's missing the the cuff tabs and it doesn't have the nice lining that goes around the color like the Infantry Waffenrock picture I posted previously.

What do you guys think?

I get my mannequins from Webster Displays in Michigan at:

http://www.websterdisplays.com/

The Infantry tunic you have posted above is an officer (Leutnant of Infantry) and therefore doesn't have the NCO tress. There are plenty of these tunics out there and no need to buy one that you have to restore. Insignia is getting difficult to find and acquire... not only do you need ORIGINAL insignia, you need to match up the waffenfarben (branch, in this case Infantry), as well as the wear of the tunic. You cannot take a battle worn tunic and add mint, unissued insignia to it; stands out like a sore thumb.

Take your time. Get your book and read up on it first. There is no hurry. And when you find something, post it, including detailed shots, so that we can guide you.

Bill

Thanks .

I bought from them and they are amazing!

Mr. Jerry,...It's so nice to read your advice to young "Marker227". I must say, with members like you who are so willing to offer help and advice with such wisdom and knowledge, makes this forum a joy to belong!

I feel very welcomed here with the help of everyone. It truly makes this hobby so much better with a friendly community .


-Mark