I ran across this one. It is advertised as a bagged eickhorn with no mentions of being a full rohm. But I was sad when I looked at the trademark and inscription. Scary they are being made with bags.

so is it just the bag and inscription that is bad or the whole thing ? I know we have been seeing a lot of bags pop up all of a sudden.

I can't take much more of this.

the dagger looks fine

the whole thing is bad. I got the same story we all got the cosigners husband brought it back from the war. The eickhorn trademark is 1 inch from the cross guard. Should be 1/4 inch. Oh well someone at the upcoming auction will have a unpleasant surprise.

So I'm outta the loop here as always!! where is this for sale at? And also I must miss alot where are these at???
"I know we have been seeing a lot of bags pop up all of a sudden."
I'm always game to check out bags or the like. I must need to get out more
Bret Van Sant

After the auction is over ill post where it was. There is other things there I would like to get that came from other cosigners. I will post it in June.

Well dont bother with it then I was not lookin to get the drop on a item over you just wondered where it was being offered. thanks though. Bret Van Sant

the dagger looks fine nothing wrong with it
apart from inscription???

Mananero,

That early large Eickhorn trademark is correctly placed. It the small one that is close to the crossguard.

Dave

Other "tail"

HHHHmmmmm I was told by a well known dealer that the trademark has to be 1/4 inch from the cross guard on a rohm. My ground rohm wingen is less than a 1/4 of a inch from the cross guard.

I'm with you mananero on that.I also though the M/M was to be close to the crossguard.May be Dave should clarify his post.Is he saying the m/m is correct for a Eickhorn ???
Just looked at the post again .I think Dave is saying the small mark is for the Rohm.Which means the Rohm is not a Rohm.

the dagger is a genuine early large logo eickhorn sa that appears to have a fake rohm etch

I am saying that IMO both the SA and SS daggers were made with both the large trademark as pictured above and the much smaller "small double oval" trademarks we are more used to.

I believe (no proof) that the large ones are the first ones and they are not that common.

To answer another question: The earlier large SA/SS dagger is found with and without the Rohm dedication. The small trademark is found only on Rohm dedication SA/SS and SS Himmler daggers.

Dave

quote:

I'm always game to check out bags or the like. I must need to get out more
Bret Van Sant

I'am not saying there good or bad but there were 3 listed over on germanmilitarycollectables.com

Man...these are starting to pop out everywhere.

-serge-

so is the inscription good?

From what I was told from the big dealer was that the dagger itself was probably good but the bag and inscription are not good. It is a shame since it was a nice dagger to begin with. I would have been very proud to put it with my other bagged examples. Since the auction house put a auction value of 200 to 400 on it. Oh well. If you guys want more pics I can get more. I am going tomorrow to talk to the auctioneer and a few other things.

The only ohe of these bags that I ever felt good about was on a Himmler SS that Dr. Distlehorst had back in the 1970s in his collecting days.
Mint and with a bag in about this condition with the stamped notation of inscription, it is probably the only one known to be original at the time and may be the source for copying for this SA bags we see today.
This being said, without seeing the piece in hand I would not say it is good or bad. Features do look OK to me, but would still have to see in person IMO.
Ron Weinand

Now this is interesting. I was at the auction house yesterday that has the bagged rohm. They had a good number of people coming in and inspecting it. There is a number of phone bids too. I was digging around since there is no auctions locally for me to buy things at. I contacted soldusa about some old federal hi powered shotgun shells I bought for consignment. I decided to look at their catalog. Interesting they have a full rohm for sale too.

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-...category=0&zip=&kwd=

Now what is the chance of having two full eickhorn rohm being sold in the same week. Both look the same. INTERESTING. Usually when the first wave of repros come out nobody knows anything.

Sorry you have to dig a while to find it. But here it is with just the window pics

http://www.auctionzip.com/Full-Image/606991/fp771.cgi

quote:

Originally posted by mananero:
Now this is interesting. I decided to look at their catalog. Interesting they have a full rohm for sale too.

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-...category=0&zip=&kwd=

Now what is the chance of having two full eickhorn rohm being sold in the same week. Both look the same. INTERESTING. Usually when the first wave of repros come out nobody knows anything.

Yes as Arte Johnson used to say: "Veeerrryyy Interesting".
Also Interesting that Sold USA had one, a Rohm just like this Three months ago. I think it sold for around $2,000. Do you think someone got a DEAL?
Are you sure you want your Full Rohm's name to look like this?


Yes, why are there so many full Rohm's at the auction sites? With so many variations? Now with
BAGS..but wait that dagger looks like it was worn but hey...it's got a BAG!
If you ever find a dagger with a bag they should look like the two examples like "wotan" shows.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...=597100751#597100751

You want a full Rohm get one from the same place "AA" got his E-Pack. I'll bet you it didn't come from an auction house.

-serge-

The small trademark Rohm directly above is NOT correct in my opinion. Trademark way too far away.

Dave

But they draw the newbies and dreamers all the time.

Does anyone for one minute think that these auction house don't know what they have? These guys do reseach! I just had one from back in your parts Dave call asking me questions.
You think your going to get a nice Full Rohm SA from these guys for under $2,500? Oh I know the "Vet Widow" stories. Well if you bid I'll bet you you can get a lot of these for $2,500...just one little problem...they are fake.
I concur with Dave. That a fake wrongly placed Eickhorn motto. Plus a Fake dedication. But that's JMO.

I think you guys better wait for Gailen, Red, or Pat to come in here...or perhaps they won't be here because it is real and they will be bidding on it ...along with ME!

Here's what Dave means regarding the Eickhorn motto placement.

-serge-

Correct !

Dave

the rohm in question is also benchmarked with a "3" Would someone go that far to be convincing maybe, but most collectors dont even know about the benchmark numbers.I also believe a hand inspection will tell the story. But for now im giving a thumbs up on the dagger, I'd like to here gailen's opinion

also the grip is fit perfect to the crossguards and seems to be no wear on the grip as you would expect on a bagged example nice early nickel lower fitting with no wear,

roy it is in your backyard. About a hour from york. Actually if I went to york I would drive past it.

I don't think there's any doubt that the dagger itself is a beautiful early Eickhorn, everything about it looks right to me, the grip shape, eagle, crossguards and scabbard throat, right down to the benchmark.

I agree with most other folks here, a hands-on is needed mostly to see if the motto, maker mark and inscription share the same etch characteristics and edge detail. The inscription and maker mark look good to me, and as reluctant as I am to say so, there are just so many of these rare daggers appearing lately, it can only make one nervous. This one looks cautiously good from these pics, but I wouldn't spring for it unless I had a good look at it...

Where's Gailen???

Red

quote:

Originally posted by mananero:
Now this is interesting. I decided to look at their catalog. Interesting they have a full rohm for sale too.

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-...category=0&zip=&kwd=


Yes as Arte Johnson used to say: "Veeerrryyy Interesting".




-serge-

Auction houses that deal in militaria build up a reputation with their customers. They can't get it all "right" all the time. I do know the guys at Sold USA and have dealt with them for a number of years. Dave & Chris are Good people.
Today we discussed the above dagger openly. I stated my concern and opinion. We went over the details.
In short with no hassel at all they had agreed that there were "issues" and told me they will remove it from the auction. And it has already been done! It was their decision and I commend them on their action.
Your not going to get that from other auction houses.

Unless you really study these dedication
daggers there is no way the even the average collector going to notice these minute details since the inscriptions are done on period daggers.
Again it is only MY OPINIONand I'm NO Expert but just a student. But I do believe these "close calls" need to be examined "IN-HAND".

-serge-

Where the bagged one is I told them that there is a very good chance that it could be a fake. They just shrug their shoulders. I even brought in exampls of bagged sa daggers and my ground ones. Nothing sank though. I sent a email to soldusa last night or sunday night. Actually I picked up a 1/2 of federal 12 gauge shotguns shells that is the orignal reason I sent them a email. That is how I ran into the other "rohm". I am going to watch when the bagged one sells and let you guys know what it sells for.

I like soldusa more since they did that. I never did any business with them. I wish all the auction houses I deal with would do that.

The bagged version sold for 1500 to a bidder on the phone.

One of the questionable daggers I received has this same blade. This is an interesting dagger because, except for the blade, it appears to be 100% correct. In other words, this was a good early SA where someone just switched out the blade.

This blade is good enough that I thought it was possibly an original variation until I saw this post.

Another eickhorn being sold

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Lo...4&lid=5737274&aiid=4

Oh yeah nice placing of the gau mark

correct me if im wrong but was that scabbarb painted .I thought all early ones were andionsed sorry cant spell.not claming to know anything just learning

Reichstall a painted scabbard is not a red flag in its own right as you will find many early scabbards{because the original anodising did not hold up}were painted over the worn anodising, a lot of other factors must be taken into consideration to assertain originality.

I STAND CORRECTED JUST YOU WOULD THINK A EARLY BAGGED ROHM WOULD NOT BE PAINTED UN BAGGED YES BUT THATS MY OPION IF I CAN SPELL

In all my years of buying daggers from veterans, I have yet to find an original period early nickel silver dagger with a painted scabbard that was not anodized or blued until the veteran got it.
All the ones that were early and painted that I found was done by the US veteran and he admitted to painting or chrome plating them.
Ron Weinand

Ron,

Some guys think that that there were period repaints done as the original bluing wore off the scabbard. Have you ever seen this ?

Dave

I understand the concept and it MIGHT be possible, but I have never encountered this with any of the vet pruchased early political daggers that I have found in 53 years of veteran buying.
Ron Weinand

Ron - Just for clarity, I'm not sure how you define "early" nickel silver. Is there "late" nickel silver? Or is it as simple as:

Nickel silver parts = scabbard with chemical finish

Plated parts = scabbard with painted finish

Thanks, Dan

I have encountered some nickel silver parts (mainly hilt parts with nickel silver grip eagle) on some transitional SAs. This is why I use the term early nickel silver with SAs.
Ron Weinand

but alas i agree with ron this dagger we are looking at in this thread should not have a painted scabbarb. Now to the promblem of painting a scabbarb .I have messed around with diffrent blueing and browning on metal trying to match orignal. and i gotta say the stuff is very durable .now after 60 plus years it gets to looking bad but in the short term of the war years i think that it would have held up fine im sure there were some repaints that would be a mistake to say there was'nt. But I think the gi's did more than the orginal if you look at the sa you would think dang this thing is rusted and go ahead and paint. Yes you would be right because the browing process is acutal rusting of the metal .but by very diffrent process that just throwing out in the rain.So my whole point is a early bagged Rohm would not have a paonted scabbarb by any means that i can think of.BY the way I have not matched the sa color yet and this after 70 plus test

Here is another current generation fake Rohm on eban, with an opening price of $999.00 !

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-WW2...7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

In case it's delisted....