Hello guys !

Is this dagger authentic ?
Thanks for help.
Regards
Marko

Be careful.

1. I have a ground Rohm by EP&S, and the grip is a lot thinner, and the wood lighter in colour than this example.

2. The EP&S grip eagle was normally the high necked variety I believe. Your photo shows a different eagle: the so called 'point behind the head'.

3. The crossguards on EP&S SA's of this vintage would normally display a very straight line across. Your photo looks slightly curved.

4. The blade has quite a bit of wear, but the Rohm inscription displays no wear.

Just my honest opinion, I would seek expert help with this one.

I agree - always be careful. But .....

1. EP&S was a very prolific maker. I have seen woods from pale blond to tiger stripes to very dark shades.

2. Like all SS/SA manufacturers, Pack used different suppliers. They may have had a preferred one, but a different type of eagle is possible.

3. Most of their crossguards are pretty straight but they used the slightly curved ones now and again

4. There is slight discoloration or graying to the blade. Most of what you see is the remains of oil/wax crud. See how it has been pushed aside by the runners? Look at the third picture.

I see nothing there that scares me although I really like to see things in-hand.

I like the Pack blades a lot. I have a ground Rohm Pack from which the maker mark is still visible for 70%. I agree with Dave that for this type of blade it is better to see it in-hand.

The whole thing has the look of authenticity. If it is correct that Pack sometimes used that eagle, and had darker wider grips, then my doubts subside. I take what Dave has said about the blade and the dried oil. On closer inspection it appears that the maker mark and the dedication are the same colour: a good sign.

My main concern with this piece would be the full Röhm inscription, which represents most of the value: without it this SA dagger would be worth around 750 US$, with it we are talking +/- 5000 US$.

What I don't like is that the inscription has kept all of the etched blackening, while the blade has a lot of grey area's.
Grey is the result of removed surface oxidation by cleaning.

The chances that this was a standard Pack SA with the inscription added later is fairly high, in my opinion. Also taken into account that the makers mark is not the "close-to-the-guard" version (see added picture, dagger in the middle), which would assure that it had a Rohm dedication in 1933.

Best regards,

Herman

Right on Herman! I had a close look at my ground Rohm Pack dagger and it is a fact that the maker mark is closer to the crossguard because of the inscription that was on the blade.

Pack had the most variety in the placement of their trademark, with and without the Rohm inscription.

There are examples of the trademark quite distant from the guard so do NOT reject a dagger for that. See below. Note curved guards too.

I fully agree, Dave.

Actually, all 3 Pack blades in the picture that I posted are ex Röhms!

But is case of a full inscription, the close to the guard mark is a bonus... or even an insurance

Best regards,

Herman

Sorry, Herman, I disagree.

It is a variation and it is not rare. With some makers, such as Eickhorn, the closeness is predictable, but not Pack. A very unpredictable maker as far as components go.

Well that's good to know for future reference. I've always seen a maker mark closer to the Xguard with the Rohm dedication. What other makers were unpredictable like Pack, Dave?

All makers used various eagle suppliers and etch template suppliers. The SS makers used various rune button suppliers as well. Grip wood color is not fixed, except the Suhl makers used hard woods with a great finish.

But no other maker, in my opinion, used as many diverse components as EP&S. Even the Sigfried logo appears slightly different on many daggers.

I think that a lot of good daggers have been passed over because of this.

Dave,

I am not stating that a far-from-the-guard mark Pack Röhm is more rare. By the way, in the pic that I show: 2 out of 3 ex Röhms have the far-from-the-guard mark.

What I mean is: in case of a close to the guard mark, the chance that the Rohm dedication was added post war is (almost)un existing and therefore -I my opinion- that is what collectors probably will prefer.

Best regards,

Herman