Oooooh... I like that!

What a beauty !

it sure looks schweeeet!!

Ulf.

Boy, tht is a nice one. I have a Boker just like it. One of my favorites!

That is a very nice dagger...very nice!

Mark

I like that a lot, certainly a dagger I'd be pleased to own !! I assume the photo is of the original owner ? How did you come by the piece, was it purchased from the family ?

Nice piece

Jonathan

The dagger comes from family estate and owner is of the photo
Regards an thanks for your congratulations!
Wikinger

very nice i would love one like that

Awesome!
Nice photo too Congrats!
(I have a herder without all those horrid scratches on it if you like to swap )

Wonderful dagger! Personally, I would rather have that dagger than a pristine full Rohm.

Awesome dagger, just out of interest are the SS knots like on this dagger available to buy and what sort of money are you looking at ?

I think SS knots in SS daggers are just standard army dagger knots, but maybe I am wrong. Also beautiful dagger man!

That is a very beautiful piece, and also great to have a photo of the owner - have you been able to get any information on him from the family?

Regards
Russell

I are still to examine!

Wikinger

Wikinger, Did you receive my email ? JR

Yeah... and mine?

Sorry,
I have bad messages,
The dagger is a nice Fake!!
Probably the Logo was after-etched and the dedication is not corect also. Thanks to the Forum of members JR and Red Baron.
Thanks and regards from germany.
Wikinger

What is it that is fake, the inscription or the whole piece? Mixed parts dagger? what?

Has the "family estate" been an elaborate scam on wikinger? This sounds bad

I for the life of me CAN'T see whats wrong with this dagger, help us out here. The only thing that I think is incorrect is the knot. I was under the impression only 36 pattern SS daggers were sometimes worn with the portapee, not 33 pattern daggers, but who knows that knot looks pretty salty.

Apparently the inscription is not correct and neither is the distribution mark, (the stamping itself).

Oh... and I forgot... the grip may not be a Herder, it could possibly be a Boker and also the crossguard markings aren't usually associated with this maker.

Thanks Scott Can see some valid inconsistancies with this piece now but would like to see the whole dedication posted on the forum for all to see.

Maybe Wikinger will post them for us?

I also would like to see a detailed explaination of the 'defects' in this dagger.

The II on the crossguard does look a little more widely spaced between each leg than what I'm used to seeing.

This dagger appears to be a beauty, but there are 3 things that concern me, Wikinger asked me for my opinion, so here it is...

1. The Herder TM has been etched from artwork that uses contemporary typography. The letter forms are mechanical font, whereas period artwork was typically hand-drawn for the making of the etch templates. The ovals are proportional, and again period "ovals" were usually elongated, again hand-drawn. The point is missing after the "ABR" and the general; proportion of the TM differs from all period Herder TMs I have seen.

2. The Rohm inscription again differs from the typical longhand construction. Noted are the decender loops and character proportions. This in itself may not be conclusive as there are differences, frequently in letter "weight" due to the acid etch, but the form combined with the TM raises a red flag for me.

3. The district marking differs, the die is sharp and wide spaced, and I have noted this same characteristic on other dubious SS pieces. Again, not conclusive in itself... but period stamps tend to be duller and consistently narrower.

It's a tricky one as the rest looks good, perhaps a parts piece with a repro or re-etched blade. The tang looks good, so anyones guess...

Red

Rohm Inscription. Follow the entire inscription with a pen as if you were writing it, you will note some reverse or pause points which I have not seen on period inscriptions.

Stamping comparison

If you are looking for the source of these - they appear to be coming out of Russia
http://www.fleamarket.gr/lot.cfm?lotID=3295126

I have seen 3 or 4 over the last 3 months on Miliataria321, Egun and Hood..
Definately Caveat Emptor.

I have seen this dagger with the same photo two or three weeks ago in an auction . The seller was in the czech-republik !

Hi Neighbour.it was on the militariaweb,about 2 weeks ago,I remember the photo of the guy on the motorbike, more than the dagger.! Regards Stan

http://www.stan-the-man.tk

Yes my friend stan , you are right .

quote:

Originally posted by sturmbrigade:
If you are looking for the source of these - they appear to be coming out of Russia
http://www.fleamarket.gr/lot.cfm?lotID=3295126

I have seen 3 or 4 over the last 3 months on Miliataria321, Egun and Hood..
Definately Caveat Emptor.

Is that Russian or Greek? Either way I've got no hope of reading that site.

Hi SDP it a Russian site mate...i think

hi Tony,its a greek site,check the URL its .gr for Greece,Regards Stan


http://www.stan-the-man.tk

its all cyrillic to me
thanks Stan

It is Greek site not Russian

Heres my Herder Partial Rohm for comparison.

Guards Marked "P A".
The tang has the herder diamond and number 8.

pic2

pic3

pic4

pic5

pic6

That looks better... Nice dagger Stirnpanzer!

Red

Check out this link:

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:0HSvRMXlUo8J:www.s...a&gl=dk&ct=clnk&cd=4

Jesper

Yo - all u wise guys !

Just talked to the seller of the dagger - I bought my original SS by him - he said he bought the dagger you are critizising so much by a private family.

You all KNOW there are MANY variations regarding the daggers - even you can´t often tell the difference.

Jesper

quote:

You all KNOW there are MANY variations regarding the daggers - even you can´t often tell the difference.

Jesper i agree there can be minor varitaions in trademakers and of course the Rohm etch. However the dagger in question does not vary by a little bit - the differences are quite a bit. As far as buying a dagger off a private family is concerned, i dont feel that lends any more weight to the authenticity of a dagger at all. Unless of course it was off the SS officer who carried the dagger.

Heres the auction of the dagger being discussed,looks like it went for €1500 regards nats
http://www.militaria321.com/auktionsdetails.cfm?auctionID=5155912

http://members.lycos.nl/stantheman/

On one hand it is nice to have a lesson on Röhm inscriptions and HERDER marks, on the other hand it is also a good lesson for those crooks who do these fakes, which obviously also have their antennas here in our forum. That is the pity of our "why" and "if" questions, not trusting the experienced word of experient fellow collectors....
I am sad because I see coming up the time when we cannot buy any Röhm or HH because of too well faked ones.

That is very scary. It's the first time I've ever seen a Herder reproduced.