Guys

Im sure everyone has read my Horror Story about my last attempt to buy a full Rohm. Please can I have peoples opinions on this being right or wrong.

I have known the owner of this since 2006 and he assures me it has been in his family since the end of the War. I said there are 1000s of fakes about and he insists it is fine as it has always been in the family so could not be fake. Anyhows I sent him a text asking if he was considering selling it. Cut a long story short if he decides to sell it I will know wednesday and I have said I will need to get it checked out as it is a lot of money.

So I would have to pay for it and have something that says I can get a refund if its bad when someone like frederick stevens looks at it. But if he decides to sell it to me I dont want to even get that far if it is clearly wrong.

I have looked in the books and myself I cant see anything that jumps out, but I got burnt last time. I know that a few people on this forum live eat and sleep full rohms so im hoping you can help!.

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As an SS dagger on its own it looks quite nice but all the money is in the blade being right.

On the Herder examples the upper and lower crossguard are usually marked "P A"
The raised Herder star is usually located on the tang. Many times a raised numeral may accounpany this mark.
Total length of the inscription should be 113 mm.
Total length of inscrption to the end of the Herder Trademark should 142mm

This on Herder examples.

Gailen David

Thanks Gailen, I can do the measurements when it is in hand. I hope that it is only hand tight to check the crossguards and tang markings.

Do you think it is a problem not having the owners numbers stamped into it?. In the books some do and some dont?

Hi There,

Maybe I will step in with a similar dilema.
This SS ground rohm has the no.'s stamped in but were there any produced by EPS? Have look at this suspected sample..

See pictures here: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=42090573&f...210063885#9210063885

no its not a problem i have a full rohm without a number and 2 partials with
strangely all my ground rohms have numbers

Are these harder to find than the Himmlers?

Also value wise would it be about the same as a Himmler or a bit more?

Well..Well...you see so many fakes nowadays that when one like this comes along...

IMO this one needs a "In-hand". I can't see anything that stands out being wrong. But don't go by what I say. It just looks like one with what I would call "strong potential".

Full SS Rohm's are harder to find than Himmler's. And it seems that a unquestionable Full Rohm will sell for more today than a Himmler in comparable condition.

Regards,
-serge-

I have spoken to the seller today, and he has thought about my offer and decided to sell it to me.

After I have seen it in hand and checked all the measurements and tang marks etc. He is completely happy with a contractual verification period for it to go to Frederick Stevens (as its been in the family since the war).

He is also going to show me all the other bits that were brought back with it like patches and armbands etc. Apparantly the Vet was a medic and he will be able to provide me with a lot of details as well and do a signed statement to that effect.

While I think it is a risky buy (like any SS Rohm) until it has been verified by frederick Stevens, I do think it could be a really nice example of a right one. If it turns out to all stack up it will be a nice addition to my collection.

I will post some more pictures on Saturday providing all the measurements and tang marks are ok.

it looks fine to me and the price is not too bad especially with the bad $ £ rate
one thing has the grip had a repair to the left of the rune?

No its just the picture none of it has ever been touched.

How you doing? been upto much?

What are you mainly collecting at the moment?

ss and km daggers
f-s commando knives but only second patterns
and japanese swords

Well I went to inspect and pick this up today. When I got there they had all the history detailing the family Vet on the table. All his service records as well as his memoirs, medals, patches, and other war souveniers including an SS Armband and some other cloth. He also had something that the British Airbourne wore to stop being shot by the Americans in friendly fire made out of silk. During and just after the war he typed up all his divisions actions as well as his memoirs!.He was a medic in an armored division and this dagger was aquired in a village in germany. I already know it had been carefully wrapped up and burried in a wooden box in the garden of the owner and he was able to aquire it. It makes you wonder why that would happen, maybe to avaoid the order to grind the inscription? maybe because the allies were advancing?, maybe it was swopped?. I am hoping I will find out when I go through all the typed memoirs in detail.

They would not part with the original documents or the other bits for sentimental reasons. And they had a family discussion about parting with the dagger for the same reasons (but my super new car kind of offer won them over!). But they were absolutely happy to send me photographs of all the items I had seen today. In addition I am getting photo copies of all the memoirs. I have a signed statement stating it was in the faimily since the war and detailing who owned it and how he came to get it etc.

As soon as I get the pictures of the other items, and copies of the memoirs I will post them here as it is really interesting.

Now the dagger itself, Gailen was absolutely spot on with his measurements to the MM. I will post some pics tommorow to show you. I could not check the tang markings as it has never been to bits and it is very tight.

The whole patina is even and absolutely lovely throughout. The scabbard is mint, the ball is perfect and there is no dents and 99% of the anodising and laquer is still there.No screws have been touched anywhere, the handle eagle and crossguards are typical herder and in lovely condition. No cracks and a really great feel.

I got home and wiped the crap off the blade and it is 99.99% mint, far nicer than the pics above covered in oil. It is one of those blades that just radiates quality and condition. Fantastic cross grain, perfect shine and the burnishing throughout is sharp and even on both sides. Just the normal runner marks, it is got to be about as good as is possible on one of these absolutely stunning!.

Tommorow when I have some light I will post a load of pictures of this beauty. Thanks to everyone that PMd me... really a great piece to have in my collection.

Its a beoutifull SS dagger! Can you please teal me how much is a fare price for such beouty?

Its a beouty and how much is a fare price for a Full Rohm with untached inscription, like this one ?
I now that usualy we are not tooking abouth prices we have payed for collection items but i woud yust like to know what is the value of such rare pice!?

Here are some pictures enjoy!

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Blade is absolutely lovely and shiny in hand but the camera makes it look a little grey up close because of the cross grain. It is really really nice!

Question

Would you clean the green stuff off from the top of the blade where it meets the crossguard on both sides. I have blades that have been damaged there. I really love the look of it but am a bit worried that it will damage this blade, what do you think?

stunning
yes i would clean off the verdigris i believe it attracts and holds water

Looks like a keeper! Lovely blade. IMO they guys that had these awarded blades hid them away. As some loyal members of the SS and SA saw thru the Rohm trumped up charges. Thus the fine condition that many of these blades retain.

Yes remove the gunk as it will pit the blade. It may had already done so.

Very Very Nice....I'd love to add it to my collection.

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

Yes,go ahead and trade your Porsche turbo for it.It will be money well spent.

Get rid of the verdigris at once.You will at least reduce any further damage.
(Nice piece by the way
Seiler (yank in uk)

I just cleaned it off, came off no problem with a bit of autosol on the end of a cotton bud, no damage at all fortunately.

I cant get the blade out as its never been apart, and I dont want to damage it so still a trace right in the corner but I will keep an eye on it.

Mongo,

From what I see this SS Herder full Rohm looks to be 100% unmessed with and correct to me.
Not only is it an original SS Rohm but it has the original beauty of an uncleaned early example with that light patina. The blade is to die for PERIOD. With what appears to be 100% of the original burnishing remaining in it's true dark uncleaned state is just mouth watering.
It looks like you got an original hanger with it also. Don't ever disassemble it. This is truly a beauty and VERY Hard to find in this pure "unimproved" original from the Vet's son condition.

A HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS ON A WONDERFUL ADDITION.

Regards,
-serge-

P.S. I'm possitive this one will have a thumbs up with Frederick when he inspects it.

Thanks Serge

Im 110% sure its right, Its a real belter and will be finding its way to Frederick Stevens tommorow . I will be paying for written inspections on all my bigger buys now regardless, just to be on the safe side!.

It was expensive, but I think it was worth every penny especially with the provinence, pictures and copies of the memoirs as well.

At least I dont feel like a grave robber either as I paid good money for it .

After Stevens inspects it I'm sure you will be 137% sure it is legitimate.As for grave robbing I'm sure that SS man is smiling down from heaven that his dagger has found a good and decent home.I'm so happy for you I could just s...ay thats great. LOL

quote:

SS man is smiling down from heaven

That's Debatable

Frederick Stevens has just done a hands on with this. Used a proper take down tool to get to top crossguard and grip off, crossguards marked P.A. Herder diamond trademark and number 3 raised on the tang

Blade is 100% correct, Rohm dedication is textbook!

Basically Its unquestionably right, and as good as one could get!.

I knew it was a good one when I bought it and got all the provinence with it etc, but its fantastic to get it rubber stamped like that as well.

Great news and the pride of my collection

This is a stunning dagger, in a great condition and extremelly rare.
They are expensive, but would rather have my money in a beautiful artifact than in my bank account.

Congrats and thanks for sharing.

Mongo, Great News! Congrats, drink numerous cold ones and sleep well to-nite! Regards. Leipzig

I knew it...I knew it!

A just wonderful full SS Rohm.
Congrats Mongo!

Regards,
-serge-