Vet purchased at the Alexandria VFW in 1974, this Herder has a black grip and black scabbard. Comments welcome

This is the first time I've seen an SA dagger with a black hilt, was the wood of its hilt perhaps stained black for some specific reason?

I've shown this dagger to several knowledgeable dealers/collectors over the years. The most common identification is either SA Marine or early NSKK. Just curious to see what today's opinion is

That is a very nice looking dagger, Vern!

These early black SA's also do pop up here in Europe now and then, so they must have existed during the period.

Unfortunately, we still do not have a solid explanation...

My personal believe is that SA-men, who got a transfer to the SS, found a quick and cheap way to adapt their dress dagger by painting/dying it black.

Best regards,

Herman

Very interesting That would also account for the black vertical hanger.

Over zealous SA man who didnt pay attention to the NSKK edict when the order came down to either purchase or paint their scabbards black...some went and painted the grip as well.
For Me..its period paint applied NSKK em

Regards Larry

Doesn't it have a GAU mark on it?

Vern,

Was the grip dyed black or painted black ? Any way to tell ? And was the scabbard factory painted or user applied ?

Dave

Looks like a thin coat of black paint on both. And there is no Gau mark on the crossguard.

I've always thought what Larry posted above - over zealous new NSKK guy.

Great dagger Vern. I have such a dagger by Konejung. It is gruppe marked but the specific mark escapes me. It has a thin coat of black paint on the grip and scabbard, done almost haphazardly. A modern collector or dealer would have done a car better job and the paint has definitely been on there a long time.

As far as purpose, I’ve always thought it was indicative of an early Marine SA dagger. The possibility of an early NSKK piece is also possible I’d say.

Thanks. I've also heard both SA Marine and early NSKK. Just wondered which opinion was more prevalent. Either way, they are interesting pieces

Interesting indeed Vern. Ron Weinand had one a few years ago that he sold off. The grip looked factory dyed and scabbard seemed professionally painted, it was early but I can’t remember the maker. Maybe he’ll chime in here.