UBB.threads
Posted By: Dave SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:27 PM
In a thread a week or two ago, I stated that I did not believe that an early SS dagger can be accepted or rejected solely on the characteristics of the SS Runes button. My reasoning is that they were supplier items and varied in small detail by manufacturer or maybe even batch.

But I recognize that many members here feel that they CAN identify the dagger by the runes button.

To allow them to prove it, I will post 20 SS runes buttons. Each is from an early, maker marked SS dagger. I own some and photographed others. Some makers are represented twice.

Good Luck

Dave

Here is #1 - Bertram

Attached picture 1.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:28 PM
#2 - Jacobs

Attached picture 2.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:28 PM
3 - Boker Ground Rohm

Attached picture 3.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:29 PM
4 Hammesfahr

Attached picture 4.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:29 PM
5 - RA Herder

Attached picture 5.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:29 PM
6 Klass

Attached picture 6.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:30 PM
7 - EP&S

Attached picture 7.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:31 PM
8 - Eickhorn

Attached picture 8.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:31 PM
9 - Boker non Rohm

Attached picture 9.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:32 PM
10
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:34 PM
10 Puma

Attached picture 10.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:34 PM
11 - Kober

Attached picture 11.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:36 PM
12 -Bertram

Attached picture 12.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:37 PM
13 - ASSO

Attached picture 13.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:38 PM
14 - Eickhorn Himmler

Attached picture 14.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:41 PM
15a - Klitermann & Moog

Attached picture 15.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:42 PM
16 - Jacobs

Attached picture 16.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:42 PM
17 - Boker non-Rohn

Attached picture 17.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:43 PM
18 - F.Herder

Attached picture 18.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:44 PM
19 - Gembruch

Attached picture 19.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/19/2011 11:45 PM
20 - Klass

Attached picture 20.jpg
Posted By: lleno Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/22/2011 12:33 AM
I really love all the learning to be done here,awesome!!!!!
Posted By: jeff Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/22/2011 07:37 AM
Dave. thank you for doing this !! 1) shows no one is an expert. 2)shows that nothing is text book.
I agree some items / parts were made by that company or a specific supplier.
it's like seeing posted photos or heer or luftwaffe daggers get picked apart ,because it's not text book. YET, the book(s) sighted only cover half or 1/3 of the total companies that made that item

I will not take this challenge , as I know better.
plus we all know SS daggers were under contracts year to year.
no one knew if next year they would get a contract , so why buy 1 million rune devices for this years' 5,000 dagger contract ?

also ,these "expert" books do show companies buying parts from each other from time to time.
Again thanks dave. jeff
Posted By: kreta1961 Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/24/2011 09:40 PM
you're right ,dave.

it's hard to judge or simply impossible.

But a challenge
Thanks for "playing",

Gerd
Posted By: jeff Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/25/2011 08:59 AM
hey Dave , you're having a lot of fun with this , ain't you ??

but later on down the road you , with others will have to re do this & add to it as a reference guide.
"Possibilities of runes " per maker.
but as you are proving , nothing is ever pure textbook (I hate that word).
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/30/2011 11:24 PM
Andrew ? Kreta ? any more guesses ?

I say "guesses" because that is what they really are. I think that by now you are seeing that identifying SS daggers by the variation of the rune button is very difficult or impossible.

I'll name them all in a few days.

Dave
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/31/2011 11:25 PM
Anyway, this has run far enough. I would like to turn this into a reference thread so here is what I am thinking of doing:

1. Add the names to all the pictures I posted.

2. Remove most of the guesses and comments on the last three pages. Mostly water over the dam anyway laugh

3. Ask members to add pictures of THEIR SS runes

Since this involves removing posts, I want to make certain that no one objects. What say you ?

Dave
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/01/2011 10:53 PM
Points #1 & #2 accomplished. Names in red were identified correctly by members. Names in green were not so I supplied them.

Now, if you care to add your own shots we can add to the reference.

Thanks to all who participated.

Dave
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/03/2011 04:18 PM
Got Runes ??

Dave
Posted By: jeff Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/04/2011 09:34 AM
dave , are you looking for others to give you rune photos of their daggers ; to add to this quiz ??
just asking. jeff
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/08/2011 11:14 PM
Jeff,

Members can add a rune button or more with the correct name or they can stick one or two up there to challenge us more

Dave
Posted By: Shawn McKibben Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/05/2011 12:02 AM
Fantastic thank you!!!
Posted By: kreta1961 Re: SS Rune Identification - 04/03/2012 01:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
Got Runes ??

Dave


Here is another one

Attached picture 807 Pastille gd.jpg
Posted By: Surge Re: SS Rune Identification - 01/11/2013 06:34 PM
Hello Everyone, Im new here as of today and I hope icame to the right website..I own a ss german Dagger and was hoping someone could help me out and tell me what they know about it.
Posted By: forton Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/04/2013 04:46 PM
Ok guys here's a SS Dagger of mine, tell me the maker .. Hint.. It's a ground Rohm.. Regards , Jeff

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: Jim W Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/04/2013 05:01 PM
Surge, take some photos and start a discussion thread on this forum. You came to the right place. These guys know SS daggers.
Posted By: kreta1961 Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/04/2013 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: forton
Ok guys here's a SS Dagger of mine, tell me the maker .. Hint.. It's a ground Rohm.. Regards , Jeff


Hmm,
Klaas or Herder?

Regards,
Gerd
Posted By: forton Re: SS Rune Identification - 09/04/2013 07:58 PM
Yep u got it ... Rich Herder ... cool
Posted By: Panzerfaust Re: SS Rune Identification - 08/22/2014 02:41 PM
Awesome post Dave! With your permission can I use this information on a dagger page (that I manage) that I have on Facebook? If so I will quote the source (Like I always do).

I will add a pic of my dagger's SS runes a bit later.

Thx,

Gerry
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/14/2014 01:28 AM
Did any SS manufacturer attach the SS button ruins slanted more towards the left instead of perfectly vertical?

Johnny R.
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/14/2014 08:33 PM
No.

I suspect that the way it was to be done is to position the button so that they looked as they do on collar patches and flags. Some ended up that way and others at more or less of an angle.
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/17/2014 03:49 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how many variations of this SS button there are (i.e. size. shape and positioning). Especially due to the fact that the Germans are extremely addicted to specific standards of grading/control.

Johnny R.
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/17/2014 04:12 PM
I've notice from research the the SS button ruins were dramatically slanted to the left from the "Rich.Abr.Herder" SS dagger manufacturer only.

Johnny R.
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/17/2014 04:32 PM
How about quantifying your research and posting a few pictures?

Dave
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/17/2014 05:50 PM
I'd love to Dave but the attachment selection is not working for me for some reason? Nor will the site alert me when a new post is summited on the tread i'm followning
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/17/2014 06:07 PM
OK, here is the image. I finally figured out how to attached on this forum. You know these forums are all a little different on their button/link locations.

I would like to credit the resource reference book that this image came from but have lost the original souse.

Also does anyone know how to switch from UBBCode to HTML

Johnny R.

Attached picture SS Button Varients.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 12:49 AM
Johnny,

Those two - Herder and Klass - are not slanted to the left. That is just the angle from which the photo was taken. They are all pretty much at the same angle.

Dave
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 02:59 AM
I've seen period Herder SS daggers and yes the button does (for some reason) slant toward the left. This is the only period SS dagger from that one single manufacturer that I've even seen that had that particular slant.

Could be some kind of a variant? Who knows why?
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 04:08 PM
Do you have some pictures?

Does anyone else have pictures of herder runes?
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 07:43 PM
Here is a SS stick pin that has the left slant to it. Still checking on a Herder image of the button.

http://www.germanwarbooty.com/item-medals01/medals%20m4860.htm

Johnny R.

Attached picture SS Pin.JPG
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 11:24 PM
We're talking about dagger rune buttons
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/18/2014 11:52 PM
Still looking for a Herder dagger image
Posted By: johnnyrocket Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/19/2014 02:32 AM
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/36715.htm

Not a Herder, but shows SS Button variant slant.

Attached picture ss.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/19/2014 05:58 PM
What manufacturer made that dagger?

It would be really interesting if your opening statement was true:

"I've notice from research the the SS button ruins were dramatically slanted to the left from the "Rich.Abr.Herder" SS dagger manufacturer only."

Merry Christmas,
Dave
Posted By: WunderKind Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/22/2014 05:14 PM
I own two herders. Both have straight runes. Here is one.

I don't think any maker was pre-disposed to any type of special runic angle. I think over time some may have turned from being dinged or wood changing or were just put in at a bit of an angle. But nothing intentional. Just my opinion.

Hope all is well dave!-Raymond, Esquire. smile
Posted By: Dave Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/22/2014 09:10 PM
I agree, Esquire.

I think the workers were told to instal the button so the runes looked like they did on flags. Same with the SA. Some ended up at slightly different angles as they were pressed into the circular recess.

I don't believe that they were just dropped into the recess. I think a good amount of pressure was used to seat them. Except for a badly cracked grip, I have never an SA or SS with a loose or rotatable rune button.

Has anyone else seen one?
Posted By: Thundahbolt Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/23/2014 04:41 AM
I thought Tom Wittmann said it was due to the wood expanding and contracting as well.
Posted By: kreta1961 Re: SS Rune Identification - 12/23/2014 09:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Dave
I agree, Esquire.

I think the workers were told to instal the button so the runes looked like they did on flags. Same with the SA. Some ended up at slightly different angles as they were pressed into the circular recess.

I don't believe that they were just dropped into the recess. I think a good amount of pressure was used to seat them. Except for a badly cracked grip, I have never an SA or SS with a loose or rotatable rune button.

Has anyone else seen one?

I guess you're right Dave.
Here is a shot of another R.A. Herder
Regards,
Gerd

Attached picture Herder.jpg
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