At last after many months (maybe years) have managed to locate an SS Dagger to add to my meagre collection.
Manufactured by Klass with area code 1. What do you think?
another pic
Yet another
Not many now, but yet another
One or two more to go
Last one
Hope too many of you did not spot my deliberate mistake, regarding the maker, guese who can't type right. The maker is Robert KlaSs. Duh
Looks good to me, congratulations.
Regards
John Rosser
Does it have the domed shaped runes or is it the pictures?
Not trying to say its wrong just a typical Klass feature to have the domed shape runes with fat letters.
The SS pin is not of the type I'd like to see on early Klaas. Sorry.
Hi There
Please explain what is wrong with it? have i bought a fake?
Regards
quote:
Originally posted by mongobongo:
Does it have the domed shaped runes or is it the pictures?
Not trying to say its wrong just a typical Klass feature to have the domed shape runes with fat letters.
The runes are slightly domed (i think) at least it feels like they are.
Do you feel it is genuine?
Not all Klass runes were the stubby type, just as not all Boker runes touch the inner circle. The stubby runes are the most common for Klaas and are considered "textbook". Some collectors will pass on anything they do not feel is textbook.
So you would say it is genuine then? As this is my first SS Dagger would hate to get ripped on my first purchase. Did not realise there was so much to check and be aware off. next time will post before i purchase.
Thanks to everyone who replied to this posting and to to ones who gave me a major scare.
Arm yourself with "a must to have" book 'Exploring the Dress Daggers and Swords of the German SS' by T.Wittmann first. There you'll find all the types of runic inserts used on the SS daggers. If you allready have that book, look at your dagger's pin, and you'll see it's totally different than any of the pins pictured there.
I'm not saying that what you have is 100% fake, but I'm 100% sure I've never seen such thing on Klaas and on any original SS dagger.
And always use the great opportunity to ask here on the forum before you spend your money.
You can see a good close up on this thread of a typical Klass Runes.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/...350054345#7350054345I think it is down to you to decide if you are 100% happy with it. I have and (still have) several of these and would not buy one with a runes like you have. Cant say it is definately not an unusual variation or something, but it does lead to more questions than it answers.
quote:
Originally posted by Skyline Drive:
Not all Klass runes were the stubby type, just as not all Boker runes touch the inner circle. The stubby runes are the most common for Klaas and are considered "textbook". Some collectors will pass on anything they do not feel is textbook.
I made the usual mistake. The maker is "Klaas" not "Klass". Here is a photo of a Klaas without the stubby runes.
Oh boy have i messed up big time, my own dagger and i get the maker wrong. R KlAAS not R Klass, many thanks to everyone for the replies, comments and assistance.
If it had not been for an eagle eyed member (not myself, thanks skyline) i would have now boxed it up and returned it to the dealer.
My oppointment in the opticians is booked for today, DUH
I agree with Skyline. Makers used small items like runes and eagles from different suppliers and you cannot say with any certainty that one maker did or did not use certain variations. Here are two Klaas runes.
DAve
With the new comments can i at last breath a sigh of relief in the knowledge i have made a good purchase and not been burned?
Seems a selection of reference books will be on my letter to Santa this year.
Thanks to all that took the time and for the assistance.
Regards
As Dave and Skyline point out, you'll encounter Klaas daggers with both rune button types so rest easy
Mine crossed with your last, if you are looking at reference books then check out both Tom Wittman and Tom Johnson's series which are superb. Wittman's series is very in depth, each volume dealing with a different type, the SS volume is superb.
Again a very BIG Thank You to all that assisted in putting my mind in turmoil and then at ease.
At last i have my first SS Dagger
The problem is the runic insert of warthog07 dagger is D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T, than both types on the picture (by Dave Hohaus) AND one do not find this type in Witty's book.
I'm just trying to be honest before being nice.
If anyone has a true "woodwork" or ground dug dagger with that very type of runes, I'd be interested to see the pictures. From my experience that type is always associated with strange daggers.
I wouldn't buy an SS dagger with such runes. Just my 2 cents.
Excuse me, but what don't you like about the runes ? Just because the specific runes are not pictured on a Klaas dagger in a particular book does not necessarily mean they are bogus...does anyone have copies of the factory orders from Klaas relating to the runic inserts ? I have had Klaas daggers with stubby runes, runes touching the circles and runes within the circles. I think I still have 3 or 4 examples of Klaas daggers in my collection but am not stood in front of them at the moment. I've only been collecting 20 years, am far from perfect and certainly make mistakes, but I wouldn't turn down that dagger purely on the basis of the runic inserts, I for one don't mind looking beyond the textbook....each to his own.
Of course the Klaas factory could use different type of runes, and there may be some variations not pictured in the book. There can be some things even best authors don't know about. But: few years ago I got burned twice buying fake SS daggers (one of them had the same looking runes). The second thing is when I see fake SS daggers, they always have those "non-textbook" runes. See the attached pictures of confirmed FAKES. Would you be also so positive about dagger with such runes? Some another unknown variation?
I haven't stated that dagger of our welsh friend is a fake. It's JUST ME who wouldn't buy it. If I'm into spending few thousand $$, I prefer to buy something unquestionable.
second
Have contacted dealer who is willing to put in writing that it 100% but after all these comment about the runes am thinking more about returning it post haste.
Looked at posting by Dave and am now thinking that the runes seem to in between the two not stubby and not long or am i convincing myself?
If anyone has a Klaas could they measure the ss symbol and post the length so i can measure the ones on mine.
What should i do return or keep and if i return it where can i get hold of genuine one?
Here some Klaas runes from my collection for compares .
LH
Early M 33 Klaas / SS man numbered dagger
Same dagger again closeups
Another Klaas M 33 / SS man numbered
Same close up pics.
this whole situation is getting out of hand. The dagger looks totally correct. if you only buy Klaas daggers with a certain type of runes button you might as well give up collecting now. I have had examples by Klaas with different buttons, some where vet purchased all are correct. once again I have only been collecting for 25 years.
quote:
Originally posted by hixxy 1:
this whole situation is getting out of hand. The dagger looks totally correct. if you only buy Klaas daggers with a certain type of runes button you might as well give up collecting now. I have had examples by Klaas with different buttons, some where vet purchased all are correct. once again I have only been collecting for 25 years.
But you don't have a Klaas with type of runes being discussed, do you?
Irrespective whether my daggers have the same buttons,you have stated that you would only buy one with a certain button.This means that you caste doubt on all the other daggers with different buttons.Although the dagger could be a direct vet purchase you would only purchase the one type of dagger.I would have thought that you would know in this hobby there are no set standards to what buttons were used on certain daggers.
If the dagger comes from the vet, I have NO PROBLEM with the runes being texbook or not textbook. But, please, that dagger doesn't come from the vet and with all respect to you guys, some of you didn't handle a single modern day high end european fake yet. I did and I see them here and there every week appearing on different auctions here in Europe.
Let's make a test: warthog, you think about giving dagger back to the seller, right? Put it on "for sale" forum for the price of a decent early Klaas. Let's see if anyone will buy it, especially those who give "thumbsup".
Warthog,
One member, 777, an anonymous contributor, does not like it and will only buy Klaas SS daggers with one specific rune button.
In my opinion you have a good dagger. Klaas was a prolific maker and, as you can see, used different runes buttons from different suppliers.
DAve
Have read all the fors and against this dagger, as i am new i put my faith in the dealer who sold it me. I spoke to him on the phone and he struck me as a knowledgeable person. He has contacted me and assures me it is 100% and is willing to put that on paper. He has like me been following this forum with avid interest.
So i must say directly to him at no time in this forum have i directly slurred him, i asked a question and this is the response i got.
So, an anonymous contributor (not everyone is lucky to live in America and meet the other forum members) would like to ask one last question: does anyone have any SS dagger with that type of runes? Forget the warthog's dagger "original or not original" issue, just for the sake of collecting: do you have it your collections?
If so, I'm going to be first to change my mind and admit my mistake.
Would like to thank all memebers for their time, assistance and comments on this post.
A couple of good ref books are on my xmas letter to santa, so hopefully, and money willing will put it to good use in the future. Once again Thank You to you all.
quote:
Originally posted by warthog07:
Would like to thank all memebers for their time, assistance and comments on this post.
A couple of good ref books are on my xmas letter to santa, so hopefully, and money willing will put it to good use in the future. Once again Thank You to you all.
Wow Santa is it xmas already????? haha
quote:
Originally posted by 777:
So, an anonymous contributor (not everyone is lucky to live in America and meet the other forum members) would like to ask one last question: does anyone have any SS dagger with that type of runes? Forget the warthog's dagger "original or not original" issue, just for the sake of collecting: do you have it your collections?
If so, I'm going to be first to change my mind and admit my mistake.
I cannot post this photo because it is copyright protected by the dealer, but here is a Klaas dagger with what appear to be the same runes:
http://www.militarycollectiblesinc.com/pictures.php?file=da00762
Skyline, once again your eagle eyes have saved the day.
They look the same to me, but am not willing to say much until someone else agrees.
Again a BIG Thank You.
As stated at last my FIRST SS DAGGER
As with the music copyright law, it's forbidden to play the whole song without permission, but to use just some fragment is allowed, the same goes for pictures. I hope I'm not going to be crucified for using the piece of the foto from the dealer's site. Judge yourself, my dear fellow collectors if the runes are the same.
p.s. I don't care anymore if this or that dagger is fake or not, just trying to stand behind my words and prove there is some reason to ask few questions.
Description: So?
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
Warthog,
One member, 777, an anonymous contributor, does not like it and will only buy Klaas SS daggers with one specific rune button.
DAve
Come on Dave - tell us who "Warthog" and "777" really are. I know you really want to, don't you?
Brad (a.k.a. Brad Long - just for you, buddy!)