Hi everyone.

One of our European brothers sent me some photos of a dagger. It is my understanding that General Erich Von Dem Back(Beck) gave these etched daggers to his military friend as a gift.

One of the photos has a paper behind the dagger, I understand this is just a print out of a short biography on the General.

Questions. Has anyone ever heard of these daggers.

Opinions on the daggers please,

And, if anyone has a strong opinion on price, please share it.

As usual with my posts, please do not pull any punches. Speak your minds.

Thank you

Photo 2 with inscription and signature.

Third Photo. According to my friend, he purchased this from the spouse of a friend of the Generals.

Final photo. If anyone wants more photos, I can get them.


Thank you

Jim

Blade seems narrow, or is it the angle of the camara?

Is there a maker mark? I see something but I can't tell what it is.

It looks like a Herder with crossed keys to me

Ulf.

Can,t say anything about authenticity,but this
one or another has been seen in UK along with a similar "Prutzmann dedication over past six months or so.Will see if I can hunt down the source.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

I will go ahead and send for better photos.

Jim

Check out this link
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/m/4040089694

I'm sure that looks like the F.Herder AS makermark.That would be one rare dagger if it's real.

Ulf.

Mine is by Hamesfahr and For Sure, they are original!
However, I'm not ruling out the possibility of the possibiity of the inscription being reproduced.

John

von dem Bach Zelewski dedecation daggers are period and original. In Johnson Reference vol. 2, I believe, Johnson shows period translation report of a "lost" SS dagger around the Chancellery. What is interesting is it says that there is a dedecation on the blade from von dem Bach.
-wagner-

Is placement of the dedication,on or above the center ridge or spine of the blade critical?

here the pics of the maker, it is F herder and this mine dagger is absolutely original, come out from the family!!

Thank you for all the responses. So, as I understand it, the Herder TM on the dagger is the correct TM for Herder SS?

Eughen is taking more photos and we will post them.

Jim

Hello everyone. I hope all had a good weekend. I have additional photos which are much clearer. I will post them now.

John, I thank you so much for your posting the photo of yours. It takes effort and it is much appreciated. The same with Wagner and the rest of you who have been kind to help.

To be clear, I have no dog in this fight. I am curiouse though. So I am posting first photos of the inscription and signature. They look identical to me but my eye is maybe not so goo.

Also, the question of why two different makers. I note John's appears to be a ground Rohm. So, did the General have the inscription added to the officers daggers? Or, does someone know?

In any case. Please, if there are any flags or problems as well as possitive feedback, please speak freely.

And Thank you.

Jim

Sentement

Grip

Here is an exploded view

fitting

Other fittings

hi Jim W, usually that 1936 tang mark is only seen on repros,nats

i agree with nats. the 1936 is a dead giveaway for a repro

Hello Jim,
for me is your dagger not good.I mean the grip and grip inlets are a complete fake.Nats is right with the 1936 marking.
Then i have heard that this maker mark in this position is questionable,but i am not sure.
Now iam a little confuse : eughen's blade and yours are perfect ! It's the same blade .Was eughen the owner or i am totaly wrong here !?
Best.

Atwood: Here's perhaps a clearer shot of the 1936 mark on the tang of an Atwood repro SS dagger.
Jim

I am not aware of a "date" stamp on any original SS blade tang. Those that I have seen have been deemed repro's. But you never know...
But for this dagger there are so many things wrong with it that I have only to say - Run don't Walk!.
-wagner-

I thank you all for your candor. The point of this discussion was to determine if this dagger was original and what the market was. To my satisfaction, that was done very nicely and with little confusion.

Deutscher. I will clarify that I stated from the begining this was not my dagger, but rather from one of the European members. I was posting this at the request of Eughen. Then Eughen posted a photo himself, which identified this as his dagger. Then he sent me more photos at my request because I wanted to know about this dagger. I hope that clarifies the time line and ownership.

Again, thank you for a very professional discussion.

Jim

Interesting thread. From what I read, the blades with this inscription tend to be Hammesfahr or F. Herder. The Herders depicted here are the first I have seen that appear to have honest age and wear and are not "mint." I have also noticed some other Hammesfahr daggers have a motto etch that is identical to the F. Herder etch. It would seem Hammesfahr perhaps contracted some of its blade manufacturing and/or blade etching to Herder. Anyone else notice this?

The one that I pictured above with the 1936 marked tang is an artificial damascus with the Klittermann & Moog logo. Now how's that for weird??