One of the items missing from my collection that I really want is an SS dagger. Over the last year I've seen a few up for sale here in the UK, but many were fakes.

Never having owned an SS , I would appreciate any advice anyone could give me on this one, which is coming up for sale.

Apologies for the photos, but they're all I can get at the moment.

Second Picture

Third picture

Fourth picture

Fifth picture

Piece of rubbish IMO.Typical of the
low standard of SS daggers found in the UK for sale at ridiculous prices.
Seiler (yank in uk)

Looks 100% original to me. Scabbard seems to be period repainted black (I see it often on Hammesfahr daggers), but it's O.K. The condition is not the best one, but it's decent and is going to make a good starter of your "blackies" collection. Let me guess, is the crossguard marked with Roman "III"?

777,
I make "NO COMMENT" as to originality certainly not from internet pics.
It is typical of the poor quality of SS daggers
foisted on what I would consider to be a relatively inexperienced collector from his comments, by the Dealer community and others and at high prices here in the UK.
As in another thread,better he save his money and buy something much much better and worth having.The UK is FULL of RUBBISH for sale in the case of SS daggers with a LOT of it being suspect and proven to be so.
Just ask my amigo "mongobongo".
No insult intended JMO
Seiler (yank in uk)

OK Seiler, I was writing my response, while you were posting yours, so I didn't mean to "oppose" to you. But still I think RUBBISH is too brutal word for this dagger. It depends on price - if someone wants 3000+ quids for it, then yes, it is rubbish, but if, let's say 1000, then it's a good opportunity for a beginner, or someone "on the budget" to own an SS dagger. As for originality: well, I see we have original set of inserts here (and I CAN recognize fake SS runic button), well fitted into the grip, that looks like original black SS handle. There is good fitting to the crossguards as well(I assume they are marked at the reverse). Maker mark and motto are correct in every detail to Hammesfahr, so that's why I said IT LOOKS (from the pictures - that's logic)original to me. Nothing beats "hands on" inspection, but our friend "AA" (does the first A stand for "Anonymous"? ) needs some online help, so we shouldn't take "no comments stance". Otherwise whole this forum has no sense. It's all opinions based on pictures, isn't it?

If you are going to buy it get someone experienced to look at it hands on.

Gottlieb Hammesfahr are the most faked SS here in the UK at the moment, they are everywhere and they are done well. Only buy it if you are 100% happy with it. I would probably try and buy an SS dagger off here if poss or from a main dealer even if it costs a few more pennies.

I asked AA to post these pictures here for a few experienced opinions, I take it the general consensus is its good but not of the best quality?.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to value?, I read somewhere that the blade should be 220mm is this correct?.

quote:

Originally posted by mongobongo:


Gottlieb Hammesfahr are the most faked SS here in the UK at the moment, they are everywhere and they are done well.

Probably they are easiest ones of early SS to fake. No need to care about correct crossguard or tang markings. Hammesfahr used so many different types (full list in Wittmann vol.IV).

Spend a $150.00 on Wittmanns text book, save thousands of $$$$. Research and self education are keys to success!

quote:

Originally posted by Seiler:
Piece of rubbish IMO.Typical of the
low standard of SS daggers found in the UK for sale at ridiculous prices.
Seiler (yank in uk)

I don't see the problem with this dagger. Other than a dent in the scabbard the condition is not all that bad. This is unquestionably a Hammesfahr with the correct etch for this maker. Why is this "rubbish"?

Rubbish and overall condition is related to the price I am sure is being asked for this dagger I am sure.Get on a plane and do a couple of UK Military Fairs.You will get my drift.
Save your cash and the right one will come along.
Seiler.

Here is a photo for comparison.

This still has the anodized scabbard.

Nice, nice, but the Hammesfahrs differ from one to another. Besides different crossguards used, there are two variations of motto. The shape of the handle is not the same on each dagger. HAMMESFAHRS are not as homogenus as B�KERS. Btw. the hanger clip is somehow strange.

The hanger clip is a repro and probably the whole hanger. The grip looks repainted as you can clearly see the 'orange peel' to the paint.

The hanger is a reproduction but that did not come with the dagger. In fact, I purchased it as original on EBay from Major Snyder. I mounted it on this dagger prior to Houston telling me it was a repro.

This dagger, on the other hand, is as far from a reproduction as one can get. The grip does not look painted in person but is absolutely beautyful Ebony wood. These old photos were taken with photo lamps and the reflection is bad.


The scabbard is anodized with about 90 % of the original lacquor sill on it. See the photo below and you can see the yellowing lacqor.

By the way, I have owned this dagger for about 9 years and purchased it from a former member of this forum. Former, because he is now deceased.

Here are newer photos

Jim

Another

Thanks for the better photos. The light does play tricks like in the first photo.

I was really embarrased over the hanger. I did not even think about it or I would have disclosed it.

I really posted that photo because it was the only clear photo of the TM and I was not sure about the one on the dagger that started this thread. The TM on the subject dagger looks like it was made with a modern engraving tool. Or, am I off on this.

Jim

Jim, In my opinion you are correct. There is a thread about a macro dental camera that you can buy on this forum site that I wish I could use on that first one shown.

Mark

One thing I noticed on the pictures at the top of this thread is that the scabbard screws appear to be the later dome headed variety from RZM scabbards, which might explain the painted scabbard. I could be wrong as the picture is not that good, in which case apologies.

Dave

My contribution to the Hammesfahr thread. Good to see you guys hanging in here!

.

JR Ahhhh we see the camera lenses is sharp as ever.Hope you keep posting

JR....

Dave,
The screws caught my eye from the outset.
With the market in the UK suffused with so many fakes..AND..of very poor quality..AND at high cost,compounded by an out of control exchange rate making US sourced items EXTREMELY expensive.Just leaves the door wide open for those who WILL exploit it with poor quality.
JMO
Seiler (yank in UK)

Seiler is right what he says about the standard
of daggers on offer in the UK. You would be hard
pushed to find a decent ss dagger, from a dealer
here. If it,s not knackered or messed about with
it,s silly money.

Seiler Best thing you can do is save up your �� from now till the economy picks up or the dollar falls again to $1.90+ to the �1 then buy a sweet SS from the USA ......Scott.

Heres another rough one, nats

http://www.militaria321.com/auktion/5507045/Original-SS...-Gottlieb-Hammesfahr

Nats,
At the current rate Stg�/Euro,
the present bid is equiv.of Stg1350.
But the condition as you show is NOT
very good in the blade at least.However there are two at a well known UK Dealer at Euro3660.
or Stg3450.Expensive I think for Europe and UK.
But if converted for $/� today =$4750,not so bad??So you pay your money and take your choice!
The exchange rates are screwing things up.
Seiler

There are a few good ones but you do have to pay top money!.

Hi Martin,
PM me and tell me where?
Seiler

I should add there is still a great deal of Vet stuff floating around the UK but not as many people activly look or advertise to buy it, look at that lovely SS Full Rohm I bought a week or so back!.

Problem is if you advertise to buy that kind of stuff people try stuffing you with wrong stuff as well so unless you are 100% in the know on everything it is very risky).

Some great collections of stuff here in the UK and a lot of it still largely unknown about.

Thank you all for your comments and opinions.
Just to clarify the situation; the price is unknown at the moment.
I appreciate that to experienced collectors it may seem a "poor" example, but as someone pointed out,there don't seem to be many available in the UK,and due to the exchange rate, US and European purchases are expensive.I don't doubt the sensible course of action is to buy the best you can afford, wherever it is. There should be more photos on the way to me soon, so I will post them and stand well back.

I would just love to see the $$$ asked.
But if you can,wait for something betterJMO.
Seiler (yank in UK)

AA, the concern some of us have on this dagger does not relate to condition. That is a personal choice.

What we question are certain points on this dagger such as the screws, the TM not seeming quite correct,the painted scabbard (an in my opinion forget anyone who says "period repainted". These points lead to questions about the scabbard materials ie the fittings. Are they plated or nickle silver.

The point being there is a difference between a collectable "beater" and a batch of parts.

Please post the other photos and get us a price.

Jim

I finally received more photos which give better detail.

Another

another one

number 3

number 4

number 5

number 6

number 7

number 8

nine

how much is the seller asking?

A price hasn't been fixed as such - offers of at least �850 ($1200) will be considered, but I
expect it will be a good bit higher.

Acceptable.

I have removed the last post - by a new member - who seemed to be the owner or his friend trying to sell the dagger.

Sorry it took me a day or so to figure out who was doing what.

Dave

i would pay �850

Is there a shortage for sale of 33/36 daggers now in the UK?
This is the last dagger I traded with Harvey Riley [ god bless him ] before he passed away.Harvey always had a case full and very often two, of good to excellent examples at every show.Seiler you knew him well whatever happened to all of these,any ideas

Just to let you all know, that Hammesfahr was sold at auction today for �1400+.
I've no idea who bought it, but it was more than I was willing to pay for one in that condition. I'm still looking.
Thanks for all the comments and opinions.

Wow!!!!
What clown paid that?Thats about$"2000+!
Was that UK Auction?
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Yes it was.

whilst i would not have paid �1400 being tight and lucky enough to have bought most of my ss daggers before they started fetching silly money
i dont think �1400 or $2000 was that expensive for an honest hammesfahr .the blade would clean up very well the grip ,apart from were the normal chips on the edges had been smoothed off, was fine
and the scabbard re-painted was again reasonable apart from the dent which could have been improved upon
i think it would fetch more than $2000 once cleaned and on a dealers table

I dont buy restored pieces.
You can have it to play with.
Seiler

cleaning the gunk off the blade does not make it restored
were else has it been restored?

i didnt buy it so i will not be playing with it
i find your comments very strange pm sent