Hello guys,

Would anyone know what those marking means on the tang of my SS dagger ?
Thanks !

tang

tang 2

Close up of the second tang's marking.

These are the forgers TM ; Carl August Hartkoph.

That's real neat.
Is it common for tangs to be marked this way ?
It adds a bit of "personality" to my dagger.
Thanks !

Nice ss dagger Pat,looks a lot like mine.Thats a good question ,how should my 1053/38 be marked,were all ss dagger tangs maker marked?

A quick note on tang markings:
All the large Solingen makers had their own drop forge operations and they made their own blades in house. Hence there is no tang marking on the majority of blades. Many of the small makers had to get their blades drop-forged by an independent forger and these independents were also used for overflow work by the biggest makers at times. These independents tended to mark the tangs. I have an Eickhorn SS transitional(maker and RZM mark) in my colllection that has an independent forgers stamp on the blade.
Jim

Thanks for the good info Jim,I got my 1053/38 apart and there are no markings on the tang,cant remember if the guy i bought it from said tang was correct or correctly marked,anyway i think i got lucky on this dagger being 100% ok because i really didnt do my homework before i bought it and didnt know a lot about them,this is a good informative site,iam glad i found it.

I think that the subject of tang marks is a bit more complex and less understood than it appears. I need to check some notes and take down some daggers and I will get back to you.

Jim,

Please post the tang marks on that blade of yours.

Dave

This is the best I could do in taking a pic of the tang marking on my transitional Eickhorn:
It is a C and an A Enclosed within an H: So I'm guessing the forger was a firm called either C A H or A C H.
Oh well: In looking back above at Pats picture the forger is one and the same!

Jim and Dave,
It is the same tang marking but WHY is there also another "H" marked tang on my dagger ?
As stated by Don, the tang is a "C" and an "A" within a large "H", which stands for Carl August Hartoph.
Looked in Johnson's book and he says that this "H" marked tang is from Eickhorn.
Kind of weird that I've got 2 seperate tang marking, isn't not ?

However: The marking on the other side of the tang looks like a pair of 1s to me:

Raised tang marks are a very good thing. 99% of Repro blades don't have them. Many originals don't have them either.

What I have learned, C.A.HARTKOPF has been the father in law from EICKHORN.
I think therefore EICKHORN has bought large quantities of his blades.

Thanks Houston & Wotan:
I think we're all learning something in this thread. I'm also getting the impression from Houstons post that a lot more blades were in fact forged by independents during the 3rd Reich
period.
Jim

Real interesting and just love those kind of threads...........very educational.
The weird thing is that I've got a C.A. Hartkopf marked tang, along with an Eickhorn marked "H" but on a WKC RZM SS dagger.
Talking about sharing parts in 1938.
The tang was produced by C.A Hartkopf, then probably sold to the Eickhorn firm and was then resold to WKC, since these 2 manufactures were often sharing parts.
Neaaaaaaaaaaaaat !

Pat:
Just for clarification here the RZM listing I have shows 1053 as being a number used by P. D. Luneschloss not WKC. We'll probably find out that Luneschloss was Eickhorns brother-in-law or something like that!!
Jim

Is "1053" from WKC or from Luneschloss ?
Wittmann's book says WKC but Johnson's book says Luneschloss.
Call it CONFUSING !

Continuation of the CAH saga:
I thought I'd seen this mark before and,sure enough, It's pictured on a disassembled dagger on P. 146 in Johnsons Collecting The Edged Weapons Of The Third reich Volume VI. He shows a Max Weyersberg chained NPEA leaders blade with the CAH and The H as Pat pictured above. Both of these marks are on the same side of the tang.
Now here's where things get even more interesting: The crossguards with the same H stamped inside are pictured also. Is it possible that this firm did die casting along with drop forging?
Jim

There is not a lot of good hard information on the whole subject. Here are some observations:

- Somewhere around 15%-20% of SS daggers have no visible marks and no signs they were ground off.

- Products from any one manufacturer are not always consistent. I have three Eickhorns. One is blank, one has A 17 and the other A 20. But both my Jacobs have the circle "A" as well, one with 22 and the other with 23. Lots of SA daggers seem to have that mark. Is that the mark of the forge, the owner of the dies, or the maker of the dies ?

- On the other hand, I have two Gembruchs, both with a "C" and a "3". Bokers seem to have the two headed arrow.

- A few blades have obvious symbols, but does that mean their forge or their dies ?

Dave



We think that the major companies had their own forges and some like Eickhorn did.

Is anyone aware of an M36 (unmarked maker with chain hanger) with a tang marking? I have seen many M33's with markings on the tangs, but I have seen very few M36's with such. If you have any, please post pics . . . I am curious to see what turns up!

Here's my M-36 no maker mark.

M33 RZM 324/37 SS.

M33 Boker,early ground R�hm and later art deco maker marks have the double arrow.
Both of my M33's by klaas have no marks.

That's another M36 with a new tang mark for me! Very interesting . . . I will post pics of one of mine soon to compare. Thanks for posting!

I have a unmarked 36 chained with the PDL stamp on the tang.they must of done their own tang forging.I tried taking a photo of it but it did not come out well enough to post on the site.Paul

My B�ker M33 has the same tang mark as Raymond's. I've always found these things cool, especially on an M36 when we really don't know who the individual manufacturer was.

Bokers always seem to have the double headed arrow as shown above.

Raymond, your 324/37 SS dagger is a Klittermann & Moog. The mark on the tang is a combined KM that was stamped into the mold, so we see it backwards on the tang.

Dave

My unmarked M36 type II has a tang mark Identical to Pat's CAH! 3FL

My Eickhorn has a number 4 stamped on the tang

To answer Brad's question, my other M36 (that I recently sold) has a "b" or "p" tang mark. Lower case b or p, whichever way you look at it. I have seen this same tang mark on other M36 daggers as well. These would be later period Type 1 daggers.

Here's the tang-mark Krause is talking about on the 36 type 1.
Looks like a "b" to me, or it could be a mirrored "p"...

I have the Carl August Hartkopf H with the C & A on the tang of a Waffenfabrik Max Weyersberg (RZM 7/12)SA dagger.

one of my 36 has a series of dots ,like a 6 petal flower, on the tang as does my m7/29 33

Hi Guys, I was just reading along and my 1053/39 has just a raised "O" on the maker side of the tang, Anybody know what that stands for?

The Fisher Quick Reference books have a whole section devoted to tang markings. I think you will find it very informative, especially in the later editions.

Mark

Not to long ago i asked the question,should a 36 chained have a sunken stamp on the tang.The dagger in question was right in every other way apart from the herder mark on the tang,this was a dagger i did not buy in the end...Regrets ?? What do you think guys..

Thanks for all of the help everyone. I must find some time this weekend to post some of my tang marks . . . .

EnglishGeorge, Never have regrets! Interesting point, though! One thing I have learned in this hobby is that you should always listen to the opinions of everybody you can get one from. BUT, Ultimately YOU are the only person who's opinion really matters! The bottom line is this, Do YOU really like the piece and does it feel right to YOU? I have seen, and I sell, some really great Repros. But I have yet to see one that would Really fool me to the point of thinking it was Real! Once you have been around these things for a while, you develop a kind of Cognitive Dissonance when something is just "off"! So get the opinions, but trust your "Gut", because you are the only one who will have to live with your decision.

Case in Point, I have an Eickhorn Railways Water Protection Police dagger that I have had about a 50/50 split from everyone I have shown it to as to it's Originality. On this one, I don't think ANYBODY can really be definative. But I like it! And I figure my opinion is just about as good as anyone out there's in this particular case. It just feels good to me! So it hangs on the wall and I enjoy having it. I am not REALLY looking to sell it so what anyone else says is just fun discussion. And to me the discussion, social aspects of the hobby are one of the most important things about it. I have something that I can drag out and always get a lively debate going! Much better than just "Yeah, That is a really nice Original" and end of conversation! 3FL

Looking at CAH tang marks I noticed this ?
2 Types ? Reversed C :
Any known reason for this ?
Douglas

ON MY M36 I HAVE THE LETTER V ON THE TANG.ANYBODY KNOW WHAT IT IS? JOE

the V on the tang is paul Weyersberg
karl

THANKS KARL, JOE.

I see another just listed on ebay, H with the C & A on the tang of a (RZM 7/68) SA dagger.

I forget exactly what those initials stand for but this is the mark of Eickhorns father-in-law who was a blade forger(not faker) who provided the Eickhorn firm and other with blade blanks.
Jim

Carl August Hartkopf

Dave