i have seen provenance from a us wwii veteran on these items,these items have been hidden away for at least 15 years,,,what is the informed opionion on these items,,,yea or nay?...thanks,,robert

Robert,, Forget the provenance,,these are both fake.. Both originally offered by CIA auctions out of Indianna late 80s/ early 90s.. I think I even still have the original sales sheets he used to send around..

**Both also appear in Alec Tulkoff's 'Counterfeiting the Holocaust'.. There's not a holocaust museum anywhere in the world that will confirm either of these 2 items as being from the period. If you spent money on them,,,get it back.......

hi gaspare,,many thanks for the quick reply,,,these are a part of a larger collection of items,daggers,hats,medals,etc,,,all looked good with the exception of these items,,,i appreciate your expertise in this area,,,robert

Sadly these are all over the place and for some reason REALLY Taking people BAD...Have seen several Hundred dollars change hands for 1 of these.

these items ebb and flow.. They'll come out everywhere, US ,Europe etc. for a while, collectors find out they are bogus and they go back into hiding again.. A few years later there will be sellers again putting them out there for sale/auction. They are often occompanied with vauge Vet 'bring back papers',,or included with other items that are original.
The tricky one is when they are included with other good Holocaust items in a group. You really got to do a through 'weeding' to keep yourself from getting burned.

*ANYONE wanting to get into Holocaust collecting must get the 'Counterfeiting the Holocaust' book and learn it well because thats the only reference/information book other than a money and letter book out there...

In an auction in Ohio a few years back-there were THOUSANDS of these--many different types-and also strange SS armbands, FM etc, SS doctor's white coats, fake medal documents and more. The thing is that all were aged with yellow stains, etc. and would fool many people. They sold most of them for about $3.00 each.
You don't see them very often these days-many are in collections.