Hello,

Since we seem to have lost our WSP thread I would like to start a new one.

Clearly the WSP was a very small organization and consequently any relics from that group are rare in the real sense. For those not familiar with what they did, the WSP was responsible for the security of waterways, including inland lakes and rivers,as well as ocean harbors.

It was a dead end job, and not considered a positive as far as career was concerned. My understanding is that there were NO officer promotions in the WSP for the duration of the war. Many of the personnel were drawn from the navy pre-war. There were NO general rank WSP.


Regards,
Bill Unland

Here is one of Joe's photos, which I'm sure he won't mind my reposting, showing "big" bullion cap eagles in wear. The two guys in the middle seem to be wearing cap eagles as large as sleeve eagles, so my combination above would not be impossible.

Here is a side cap. Not very good picture. It has a 1944 date in it but is faded and hard to read in a photo.

WSP Officer's Schirmmuetze:

Unfortuantely WSP uniforms are rather scarce and about all I have are some period pictures to share. I'll have to dig out some rank and sleeve insignia to add later. Thinking back, it seems like a I only remember seeing one tunic berfore from ORPO...

That is a serious bummer another thread went missing, although it doesn't surprise me. Hopefully these thread issues will cease!

And another picture of the same officer...

Dave,

That guy's cap eagle is HUGE. Almost looks like a sleeve eagle.

Regards,
Bill Unland

I am afraid that after my computer crash I only have some poor quality backup photos remaining and none from the old lost WSP thread.

At any rate, here is the Wasserschutzpolizei NCO uniform once again.

This is all I have Paul

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Thanks George, the only one I have ever seen.

Paul never say "only", that is a very pretty dagger.

Regards,
Bill U

Thank you so much Bill . . . I'm likely one of many, who truly appreciate your efforts in trying to reestablish the lost thread on the WSP!

WSP Senior NCO:

WSP NCO:

WSP Offizier:

WSP w/ SS runes:

WSP Officer:

Another w/ bullion eagle:

Joe, this one should look familiar--a WSP by my favorite maker, Pekuro:

did the rank of Zugwachtmeister apply to the wsp

Dear DW,

NO. Here is a link to WSP ranks on Ernst's site: http://www.germanpolice.org/index2.htm?/organisation/branche-schupo-r-wsp.htm

Look under shoulderboards/Wasserschutzpolizei.

Regards,
Bill Unland

DW,

When you look at Ernst's webpage you should also notice that Zugwachtmeister is a position and not a specific rank. The position could be held by several ranks just like the position of der Spiess. Both are indicated by rings of tresse on the cuffs rather than rank on the shoulder boards.

I have not got much WSP its very hard to find, and those that do have it are very lucky. So here is all I have. Officers side cap.

front of side cap with other ranks eagle

inside

couple of pairs of shoulderboards

other ranks arm eagle

officers arm eagle

Here is a nice photo study of water police uniforms in wear. On the right of the picture we have a man with a hugh none regulation (or is it?) cap eagle in metal, behind him there is a man with the not seen before, water police cape in wear and on the left side is the greatcoat and the reverse of the service coat. A very nice photo.

close up of the extreamly large metal cap eagle

here is another photo with the bullion cap eagle in wear

here is another very interesting photo showing water police wearing what appears to be summer issue mottled uniforms. Notice the man in the middle of the picture who is wearing collar patches, wonder if they are yellow? and the man at the back of the photo who has got no shoulderboards

close up of uniforms

One last one, three types of uniform worn in this photo, on the right the regular navy blue jacket next to the summer jacket on the other side ther is a white jacket in wear, but the cap he is wearing would indicate that he is other ranks with the lack of chin chords, could this man be wearing a yellow on white eagle??

Here my Wasserschutz-Polizei bevo sleeve eagle .

..and the backside is almost as interesting !

My only sgl. Lt. shoulder board.

..and a close-up.

..it is a slip-on .

My pair of 'Meister' shoulder boards.

..and a close-up.They are on a twill material.

My pair of 'Wachtmeister' shoulder boards .

..and again a close-up . They are also on a twill material .

Here my 'Wachtmeister' shoulder board that has no backing .

This was actual the backside ! Here now the front side .

My two first style visor cap eagle that kept their gilt finish very well !
2 different manufacturer's as you can see .

..and the backside of the 'very' gilt one .
The other one is very similar , except the flat prongs sit lower on it .

Here my 2nd style eagle that has a raised chest and thick/projected wings ;-almost like an Officer's eagle .

Deep cast backside with hmk 'C.D.'.

Very bright gilt EM cap eagle .

Backside has the hmk. for 'Aurich , Dresden'.

Here now my WasserscHutzpolizei Winter Furr Cap . It has a raised gilted Police Officer's eagle on the front .

Gary,

Great pictures of the WSP guys!

Bernd,

Nice insignia!

..and a side view.

,,and with the ear warmer flaps down .

..and again a side view . Note the stitch lines to reinforce the flap .

..and a iside shot also shows reinforcement stitch lines .

Close-up of the 2 dark blue/black ink cancels .

First one is a long box shape with
'R.B.Nr. 0/1200/0747' and hat size '58' and year '1944'.

Second cancel is a round one with an eagle at the center and around it ' Ortsstelle ' at top and " Wasserschutzpolizei' below .

Now the super gilted Police Officer's eagle .

Since the front furr flap is sewn to the cap , I can not look at the backside of the eagle to see if there is a hmk .

..and a close-up . The actual gilt color is even a richer and darker gilt tone as the photos show you !

..and one more , since I like it so much !

Hello - I am not very knowledgeable in the area of uniforms, but have a few uniforms and hats in my collection. One hat is an overseas type (Bordmütze?), the exact shape/style as the one shown by Gary B. The exterior appears to be dark blue wool and the interior a medium blue rayon. Excellent quality, but it is unmarked.

The only difference is in the the piping and the police style eagle, which are silver. Possibly not WPP, but what?

Thanks, Dan

Also - can anyone identify the type of sidearm being worn by the bewildered looking man on the right of picture #1 by GARY8? Could it be a KS98?

Dan

Dear Dan,

A blue cap with silver piping would be a Feuerwehr (fire department) officer's side cap. Also the photo seems to show slotted bayonet.


Dear Bernd,

Very pretty cap but with what WSP uniform could it possibly be worn? The only "green" WSP tunic was the summer tunic shown by Gary. I suppose a "regular" police cap put into WSP use is a possibility. I have often argued that since the WSP was so small most "gold" nco insignia and buckles really belong to the traffic police. Perhaps that is the case here as well?????

Regards,
Bill Unland

Bill - Thank you for your answers. I have had several opinions on the hat, but none were definate.

Thanks again, Dan

Dear Bill : If I was a WSP Officer and had to go out on a harbour patroll boat in icecold winter weather , I be glad I would have this warm cap on my head !
The cap , like many Officer's items , could be private purchase and he put the cancel in there to have it returned to the 'Ortsstelle der Wasserschutzpolizei' just in case he forgot it somewhere .
Also , the cap shows no wear . So , he could have bought it just if he ever needed it ;--but at the end of the war just layed it away at home .As my Dad had a mint police tunic jacket issued to him with officer's insignia , like the collar tabs and Oblt. shoulder boards on it ,stored in his footlocker at home ;--and the sleeve eagle had not even been sewn to the arm !
The gilted eagle on this cap is the finest , gilted Officer's eagle I have ever seen !
Regards, Bernd .

Dear Bernd,

Of course you are correct. It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers).

If not for the stamp I would have voted Police General.

In any case beautiful piece. You and your son have cornered the police collecting market it seems

Regards,
Bill Unland

BTT to keep alive

Great thread.

Personally, I only have one WSP related item in my collection and that is a Dienstpass. Some details below;

On 11/8/42, the holder (Karrasch) was posted to the Wasserschutzpolizei training school in Stettin. On completion of training 8/2/43, he was posted to WSchp.Rev. Berdjansk (WSchp Kdo. Asov Sea), were he served until 26/6/43. On 27/6/43, he was transferred to WSchp.Rev. Mariupol (Aussenpost Jalta) until 13/9/43. From 14/9/43 – 1/2/44 with WSchp.Komp.Asov Sea. On 2/2/44, Karrasch was transferred to the East Adriatic. From 2/2/44 – 23/3/44 he served with WSchp Komp. Ost-Adria, conducting anti-partisan operations in Rawme(Rovinj), Görz and Trieste. From 24/3/44 – 2/5/44, he served with WSchp. Rev.Pola(Pula) for anti-partisan operations in that area.

Graham

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Graham : This got to be one of the most interesting police passports I have ever seen !---And very rare , since it is waterpolice !
Any info , what happened to the man at the very end ??? Prison camps and did he get back to Germany ???

Graham : Also , any awards listed ???

Hi Bernd,

Haven't had time to fully research this yet, so I'm afraid I dont know his fate.

Awards page;

Some other postings. Entry 5 being of particular importance.

Karrasch served Sept. 1940 - Aug. 1942 with the Hamburg based Pol.Btl.303.
This Btl. was sent June 1941 to Russia and became notorious for its participations in the killing of Jews.

Pol.Btl.303 was part of Pol.Rgt.Süd., the other two Btl. of this Rgt. were Btl.45 and 314.
Polizei Regiment Süd was active with the Einsatzgruppen.

From some of the daily reports 19/8 - 5/10 1941, we see:
25.Aug. Süd shot 1,324 Jews.
27.Aug. two reports for that day: Süd shot 549 and 914 Jews.
28.Aug. Süd shot 369 Jews.
1.Sept. Süd shot 88 Jews.
2.Sept. Süd shot 45 Jews.
4.Sept. Süd shot 4,144 Jews.
6.Sept. Süd shot 144 Jews.
11.Sept. Süd shot 1,548 Jews.
12.Sept. Süd shot 1,255 Jews.

Pol.Rgt.Süd reported on 12.Sept. 1941 the shooting of 1,255 Jews at Ovruch.
And on 19.Sept. it reported the shooting of 18,000 Jews at Zhitomir.

Sep. 29/30, Sonderkommando 4a, Polizei Regiment Süd with its Battalion 45 and 303, and a company of Waffen-SS were involved in the massive slaughter of Jews at Babi Yar, near Kiev. In the course of two days they murdered 33,771 Jews.

Karrasch's performance during his service with this mass-murderers unit is stated as "very good" !!!

The unit went on with killing Jews.
Some thousands in Berditsjev and Vinnitsa, and
smaller executions in Chorol, Krementsjoeg and Poltava.
10-14 Oct. about 10,000 Jews were killed in Dnepropetrovsk.
End of Jan.1942 they were executing Jews in Charkow.

Seperate combat sheets describe Security and Cleanings operations. Two of the sheets, one with the Fieldpoststamp 38101 = Pol.Btl.303, and the other with stamp 36524 = stab.Pol. Rgt.Süd, shows: 23.9.-14.10.1941, and 23.9.-15.10.1941, Security and Cleaning operations in Kiew.

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pic5

quote:

Originally posted by W.Unland:
Dear Bernd,

Of course you are correct. It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers). It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers).

If not for the stamp I would have voted Police General.

In any case beautiful piece. You and your son have cornered the police collecting market it seems

Regards,
Bill Unland

Hello. Are you quite sure about your statement above Bill? Hmm?

Dear Joe,

Which part.....no traffic officers, nice eagle, or?

Regards,
Bill U

Hey Bill. Well it is obviously a beautiful officer quality eagle, so......... You just keep leaning in this hobby.

BTT to keep alive

'Ein kleiner Vogel kam geflogen ! '
This little bird landed in my hands at a small local militaria show this Sunday .

..and it's backside .

As you can see from the cut into the backing material at the joint of the wing (-- the backing to be folded over to be stitched onto the tunic ) and the stitch holes ,
---this eagle ACTUAL had been sewn to a tunic !

..and one more shot showing the cuts at the wing joint .

WSP in action:

Very cool photo.Almost looks like a gun turrent ahead of the crew compartment. Interesting choice of flag....a state service flag? Nice spotlight too.

Bill Unland

All these items are rare and hard to find today.
I just recently missed out on a near mint WSP Aluminum buckle dated 1938 with the original belt.

Been wanting an original dagger with the grip emblem forever. But seems most all of them have been "modified" or questionable. Wanted a textbook example...finally...as though a dream come true..one has become aviliable that has met my criteria for this rare model. It's on it's way to me now.
Can't wait. I'll share it with you when it arrives.

-serge-

Serge,

The piece you're referring to wouldn't have been the one off Eban a week ago, would it?

Yes, Billy it was.

-serge-

Serge,

I could tell that Alcoso was a winner all the way. Well done!

Hi Bill. That is an interesting photo. The state service flag was the standard banner for all police buildings, camps, etc., so it was appropriate to show it on a vessel. It wouldn't have had a license plate. I wonder what is on the jack-staff at the bow? Do you think that circular thing that looks like a gun mount was an engine access area? The ship was inboard, as you can see the engine cooling water discharging out the side below and in front of the policemen standing at the con.

Billy....it finally flew in today.
I been wanting to find one of these for years that was "texbook" and unmolested (improved by well meaning collector/s). Along with the Army dagger that the Vet brought back it looks to me the last person who put on the hangers on the scabbard was the German.
This WPP dagger made my Christmas.

-serge-

Hangers seemed to have been shortened.

The blue leather on this dagger and the way it is singed by the brass wire gives a marvelous appeal to this scarce model.

From my understanding this type of "Solid Police" emblem is considered textbook for this maker. Were is that "textbook" on these anyway?
Don't know enough yet about varients. Info is hard to find.

Serge,

A stunner. If not me, at least it landed in the hands of someone who can appreciate it. Well done.

Serge:

Nice!

The AWS mark makes it a rather late in the game production, which make it even better. Most of us have never seen one of these outside of 'textbooks', and to actually have a full rig like that, amazing. Who says that e-ban is just junk?

John

Thanks Billy and John.

I've run across some scarce daggers in the past but not this model. Just going on that it's got to be scarce.

-serge-

Serge - it's a Real Beauty(!) CONGRATS!

Can you take a foto the finial / cap piece? I'd read something about the 'cat tails' on these, but I admittedly know very little about this rarely seen WSP Dagger.

Good Going on acquiring this Super Dagger for your fine collection. ...Dave/dblmed

Thanks Dave!

It was a long wait but I'm very pleased.

Regards,
-serge-

A few sleeve NCO eagles:

Officer's cap eagle, heavily padded and a size comparison with a metal cap eagle, and sleeve eagle:

"Naval style" WSP NCO schirmmutze:

NCO sidecap:

real nice to see all this nice stuff on the water protection police. You know ,there is more photos right here than in ANY book on this service!!!! If anyone here has time to kill , how about doing a book , with help from these contributors ???
I own a jacket , which IF I can get my camera to co-oporate with me & if I can dig the coat out , I will put up. my coat went from the vet to a family friend ,to my father & to me on x-mas morning in 1984. was in high school then. thank god I still have it over the years.
AND my father still kicking himself for giving to to me....
mine is a little diffrent..... actually states wasserschutpolizie above the sleeve eagle.
which I have yet to see here. man you guys are going to make me dig it out..... jeff h.

hoping I have put a photo here. jeff h.

the shoulder rank....

sleeve eagle with the name !

some how it would not take the other photo of the uniform maker neck tag, "masschneiderei Wilh. Nasse, kiel. jeff h.

Hello,

Thanks for posting.

The tunic is interesting. Is it cotton? The shoulder boards look good, but the tunic should have sleeve braid. Any evidence of there ever being any applied? Any maker or issue stamps inside?

Unfortunately, NCO sleeve eagles were never named.

These tunics are EXTREMELY rare, and most were rebadged and used after the war.

The sleeve eagle you show is indeed one generally considered to be a reproduction, sorry. That does not mean the tunic is bad. I have never seen a WSP tunic offered for sale with a good eagle. They are just too rare.

Regards,
William Unland

william, thanks. no noticable braid removal. no other markings noticed (I'll look again). surprized on the patch, as I havenot seen any like it for sale. ussually repros run in large groups to notice. it will stay till further notice. question ; why do these boards have yellow under lay, as most here seem to have blue ????. might it all be post war ?(afraid to ask...) even the intertwined cords are yellow. jeff h.

Here is the more typical version of the reproduction sleeve eagle. I have seen it with "Wasserschutzpolizei" in the past but never saved the photo.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Shoulder board posted in #91 is afterwar German Wasserschutzpolizei right shoulder board (Land is unknown - perhaps Schleswig-Holstein).
Wartime shoulder boards must have interwoven yellow "V"s in silver cording...

Here is a photo of a RevOblt der SW tunic and visor. The trousers are KM and the shirt and tie K-Mart.In this instance he is wearing his SS-Polizei Fuhrerdegen. His tunic is a five row double-breasted example. George's in this thread has four rows.

The tress on the cuffs are machine sewn per regulations.

Shoulder board shows the dark blue Nebenfarbe of the Kriegsoffizier.

No rear buttons of course.

Rawme is not Rovinj.
The German name for Rovinj was Rivin or Ruwein, depending on the source.
The writing on the Dienstpass might correctly read i/RAHME (im Rahme , ie with the boundaries of).
Very interesting document, by the way.
MP

Here's a photo I found online of a captured boat.

William Kramer