In August 1945, the four allied powers: America, Britain, France and Russia, divided Germany into four military occupation zones. America took control of the Southern area (comprising what is today the states of Baden-Wurttemberg, Bavaria, Bremen & Hessen). Britain took the North West (comprising Schleswig Holstein, Hamburg, Nordrhein Westfalen and Niedersachsen), France the South West (comprising Rheinland Pfalz and Saarland) and Russia the East (comprising what is today Brandenburg, Thuringen, Sachsen, Sachsen / Anhalt & Mecklenburg Vorpommern). The Capitol of Berlin was also divided into four quadrants. Note: The Russian sector will be explored separately in the East German Police Thread.
The former German provinces of East Prussia, East Pomerania, and Silesia were transferred to Poland. Originally, Bremen was also to have been part of the British controlled sector, but the Americans took control of Bremen, arguing that they required at least one secure harbor.
By 1955 most of West Germany sovereignty had been restored except Saarland which did not re-join till 1957. East and West Germany would remain divided till 1990.
Each respective allied country brought with it their own unique vision of policing. This can be seen in the wide variety of uniforms and insignia. Additionally, the immediate ramifications on the existing police were also diverse. In some sections, such as the British controlled North West, the continued use of war time uniform (absent the III Reich insignia) was of less concern than in the American sector where uniforms were banned till they could be replaced.
The uniforms and insignia worn in each respective state are diverse. It would be extremely difficult to try and write a detailed outline in this opening. But over time I will attempt to add individual outlines as these threads expand. Those seeking specific information are encouraged to contact me direct. Please understand, I am not an expert, just a collector with a passion for German police insignia.
Suffice to say that the uniform history can, and is encouraged to, be viewed in three different time periods:
1) 1945 – 1979 (Diverse Uniforms)
2) 1979 – 2005 (Green Uniforms)
3) 2005 – Present (Blue Uniforms)
From 1945 till 1979, the various states had a wide array of insignia and rank. Additionally, uniforms varied from green to blue, and various shades thereof. One could leave the City State of Hamburg where the police NCOs wore blue uniforms with inverted British style chevrons and go to Schleswig Holstein where they wore Green uniforms with III Reich style rank. In contrast, one could go to Bavaria which had both a State Police (Landespolizei) as well as City Police (Gemeinde / Stadt) forces. The last city police force was Munich, which was finally merged into the state police in 1975. This organization was also prevalent in the other American Sector states.
This confusing structure remained until the mid 70’s when a re-organization took place to clearly define the Police uniform & vehicle standards. This resulted in a standard of green jacket, tan pants and shirts, and green hats. The arm patches and hat badges also were redesigned, the only difference was the display of the states crest in the center. Rank insignia was also changed to one standard style. Vehicles were also redesigned to conform to a white & green motif with the lettering “Polizei” in bold lettering.
In 2005 a 2nd reorganization took place, this time moving away from the green uniforms to a more recognized blue uniform. Hat badges, patches and rank remain the same as before, just in a blue motif. Vehicles also changed to a silver & blue design. The changes are still underway although more than 2/3 are already changed. The last remaining “green” states being Sachsen, Bavaria and Saarland (as of June 2007).
Besides the state police agencies, collectors should also examine the other law enforcement agencies: Bundespolizei (formerly the Bundesgrenzschutz), Bahnpolizei (merged into the BGS in 1992), Zoll, and Bundestagpolizei.
Happy Collecting,
Andrew
(Huntzman)
Andrew, thank you very much for the above introduction to start this thread off in the right direction! Your participation to the Police Uniforms Forum is greatly appreciated and highly valued!
Dave
Thank you very much for your kind words. I feel that my participation here is an honor. Hopefully I will be able to expand on this thread with outlines on the individual states. Doing it that way is the only realisitic way of approaching it.
Andrew
First let me say that I feel terrible that it has taken me so long to write this. The other day I injured my wrist and it has taken a few days to get over the tenderness. Advil & Tylenol are tremendous !!
Anyway, here is the 1st installment along with photos. My goal is to write a little blurb about each state individually (Alpabetical Order) and then post corresponding photos.
If anyone has any questions, or corrections, please feel free to ask.
Andrew
Baden-Württemberg
After World War II Allied forces established three states: Württemberg-Baden (occupied by the US), Württemberg-Hohenzollern (France) and Baden (France). In 1949 these three states became parts of the Federal Republic of Germany. These states officially merged on 25 April 1952 into Baden-Württemberg. In 1953, the various “Wasserschutz Polizei” patrols were also merged.
Prior to the merger I know of five different insignia used by the polizei in these areas (Photo 1). This photo shows four of these patches (3 Arm Patches & 1 Hat Patch). The fourth is a green version of the Baden patch. Obviously they are extremely difficult to find.
In addition to a state police “Landespolizei” in the US sector, there were additional municipal departments “Stadtpolizei” (Photo 2). My research has determined that there were approximately 62 of these city police departments with their own individual patches, breast badges and hat badges. This was all part of the “decentralized” policing preferred by the US Military Government. Eventually these local departments would be merged into the state police beginning with the ones employing the fewest officers.
Two separate and distinct uniforms were worn during this time by the state police (Green) and City Police (Blue). Each featured their own distinct pie shaped collar rank (Photo 3 & 3a). As each municipality was merged into the state police, the uniform was changed over. The last merger of a municipal department took place in the early 70’s.
Additionally, the state police also had an water police section which wore the same patch as the state police, except with a navy blue background. This remained in effect till the mid 1970’s when West Germany instituted a nationwide reorganization of all police departments.
In the mid 70’s a change was instituted that created one uniform look for every police agency within West Germany. Gone were the varying shades of blue and green. What resulted was a standardized uniform featuring hat badge, patch, and rank (Photo 4 a & b). Each state would have one uniform for normal patrol officers (Green) and one for water patrol (Blue) which closely resembles a naval uniform.
Obviously there are always going to be “rule breakers” in the bunch. I will try to identify them as they occur in each state. For Baden-Württemberg it was the shape of the rank and placement of the four stars in the PHM, E/PHK and Ltd. Pol. Dir. Ranks.
From the late 80’s to present there has been a growth of what is refereed to as “special unit” insignia. While some are officially worn, other remain novelty products of the units or organizations. I have depicted a few of these (Photo 5).
Around 2000, another change occurred in the vehicles. They went from the Green & White scheme to a Green & Silver.
In 2005 another uniform reorganization took place. All uniforms are being transitioned over to a navy blue design. In addition to the change in the standard uniform, the police have also adopted a more casual uniform. This has caused a change in all patches, rank insignia as well as vehicles. At the present time (June 2007) Baden-Württemberg is still in the transition phase.
I will step up to the plate and say I am not fond of the new uniforms. While I always appreciate new insignia to track down, the uniforms look more like the product of a 5th Avenue Designer, then something that is practical for patrol. Time will tell.
Andrew
PS: Before someone asks, no these are not all in my collection....... I wish !!! Some are, while others are from reference sources I have compiled over the years.
Photo 1 - Patches worn from 1946 - 1952
Municipal Police - Photo 2
Photo 3 - State Police
Photo 3a - Municipal Police (Stuttgart)
Photo 4 - State Police (1976 - Present *)
Photo 4b - Rank Structure
Photo 5 - Special Unit Patches
Next Post - Bavaria
My apologies for the delay. I have 95% of the next post / photos already done. Just awaiting clarification on the use of a particular insignia.
Andrew
For those of you who enjoyed the explanation of police insignia in Baden-Württemberg, grab a drink cause the fun continues. 1st Let me say that while American administration of Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria and Hessen might have ultimately led to a lot of neat insignia for collectors, it is a bunny to try and document. So without any further complaining, lets press on to the insignia of post war Bavaria.
In keeping with it’s theme of “de-centralized policing” the US Military Government once established two separate police agencies. The “Gendarmerie” which patrolled the rural areas and “Stadt or Gemeinde Polizei” which were responsible for policing in cities with over 5,000 inhabitants. In early 1946, the title Gendarmerie was replaced with “Landpolizei”. I have not seen a “Gendarmerie” patch before. Additionally, Bavaria is comprised of 7 administrative districts and at one time each district had it’s own separate insignia. (Photo 1)
My research has determined that there were approximately 152 of these city police departments with their own individual patches, breast badges and hat badges. Eventually these local departments would be merged into the state police generally beginning with the ones employing the fewest officers. The mergers began in January 1953 with the city police of Olching. Munich was the last to be merged on October 1st, 1975. (Photo 2)
Subsequently, the state police changed their title from Landpolizei to Landespolizei. (Photo 3)
From 1946-1952, training for the state police was conducted at the Landpolizeischule. In 1953, when the mergers began. Training was centralized under the auspices of the Bayerische Polizeischule. I’m not positive if there was ever an insignia for the original Landpolizeischule, but the subsequent Bayerische Polizeischule did have their own insignia. In 1951 a separate Alert (Disorder) Police (Bereitschaftspolizei) was instituted and along with it came a distinct patch. (Photo 4)
Another interesting aspect of Bavaria law enforcement is that beginning in 1946 and continuing to 1998, Bavaria maintained a border police “Grenzpolizei”. They also had their own separate and distinct insignia. (Photo 5) While originally an independent authority, in 1952 it became a sub-command within the State Police. Additionally, the Bavarian Police also maintains it’s own Mountain Rescue unit “Polizeibergfuhrer”, originally part of the Grenzpolizei, the unit evolved into a specialized mountain rescue unit and has it’s own insignia (Photo 5)
All insignia, Landespolizei, Bereitschaftspolizei and Grenzpolizei were worn until the reorganization in the mid 70’s. These were replaced with the standardized uniform featuring hat badge, patch, and rank. Each state would have one uniform for normal patrol officers (Green) and one for water patrol (Blue). (Photo 6) Bavaria has not begun the changeover to the new uniforms as of June 2007.
The Landeskriminalamt (LKA) is the state criminal police agency of the Bavarian police which is headquartered in Munich. (Photo 7) Their duties included forensics, bomb disposal, hostage negotiations, narcotics and organized crime investigations. Each state maintains their own LKA, which is directly subordinate to the state ministry of the interior. There is also a federal version which will be discussed later.
From the late 80’s to present there has been a growth of what is refereed to as “special unit” insignia. While some are officially worn, others remain novelty products of the units or organizations. I have depicted a few of these (Photo 8).
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Andrew
Photo - 1
Post WWII - Landpolizei
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 2
Stadtpolizei
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 2a
Detailed examination of the City of Munich Stadtpolizei. The blue rank was used by the city police forces. The Land/Landespolizei utilized green colored backing.
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 3
Landespolizei
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 4
Police Academy & Riot Police
The Panther is the logo of the BePo. The lower images with the different colored borders are for martial arts and are equivalent to the different belts.
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 5
Grenzpolizei & Polizeibergfuhrer
Shot at 2007-06-30
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 6
Current Insignia (as of June 2007)
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 7
Bavaria State Criminal Police (LKA)
Shot at 2007-06-30
Photo - 8
Special Unit Insignia
Shot at 2007-06-30
Next up is Berlin. Be patient, as there is a lot to do with this state.
Andrew
Pat,
A very nice collection of West German Police caps. I see you have what looks to be a Berlin Verkehrspolizei white top cap in the center of the bottom row. Here is a well worn Berlin peaked cap that I got from a Sergeant that I did a ride along with in Berlin about ten years ago. He styled it into a "50 mission crush" but since he was then on a plain clothing assignment, he said he would just requisition a new cap when he went back into uniform.
When I was there around 1993, there had just been a scandal with the Berlin traffic police accused of siphoning off some traffic fine money before it got turned in. Most of the traffic police guys at that time were recently integrated East German policemen who were in the midst of the accusations. The Verkhrspolizei were not a bunch of happy campers at that time and were a pretty sullen lot. They did look good in their white top caps though.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Berlin Polizei Schrimmütze
Here is what I have left of my West German police hats the time frames they were used if from the 70's-90's. Sorry for the crap picture.
pat
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
2
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Removable Hauptwachtmeister shoulder boards with green interior cords and aluminum wire outer cords. The wool backing and attaching straps are also green. These West German police shoulder boards are made in the WWII style, unlike later East German shoulder boards.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Hauptwachtmeister Shoulder Boards
Machine sewn shoulder patch of the Rheinland-Pfalz Polizei. This patch is also worn on the left sleeve of the moosegreen shirt. The shirt can be worn with removable shoulder boards without the tunic in summer and in winter. This is an early oval shaped patch but shield shape patches will be found on later Rheinland-Pfalz Polizei uniforms.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Rheinland-Pfalz Polizei
West German police uniform from Rheinland-Pfalz. A four button uniform that has an open collar and no collar tabs. It is worn with a yellow (moosegreen) shirt and a green tie. The tunic is dated 1972 and has a WWII style bandage pocket and a slit in the right pocket for the pistol to be worn outside the tunic while suspended from an interior belt.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Rheinland-Pfalz Polizeijacke
Back of tunic showing two panel cut with a slit in the tail. The trousers for this uniform are of the same color twill without piping. The trousers do have a baton pocket in the pant leg.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Back of Tunic
View of the Berlin Schupo sleeve insignia that is machine sewn to the summer weight tunic.
View of the machine sewn gold wire WSP Officer rank stripes on the cuffs. The cuff stripes are sewn into the sleeve seam as is proper for this style of rank insignia. Notice the gold wire police star machine sewn above the stripes. This police star is different than the five pointed star found on similar naval tunics.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: WSP Rank Insignia
Inside liner is grass- green silk , the tunic has 2 inside breast pockets . Liner of the arm sleeves is a stripe gray-white cutton . Inside front also has a wound-pack pocket .All buttons are hmkd."A" for Assmann. Tailor label says :" A.W.Hering--BREMEN--Am Wall 119 "---;if you want to order one made for you !!
West German Wasserschutzpolizei Officer tunic. This blue double breasted tunic has dual gold rank stripes on the sleeves but has no provision for shoulder boards or collar tabs. The tunic has a false lower right pocket with an opening for the pistol that is hung from the trouser belt in typical West German Police fashion. The uniform is 55% polyester and 45% wool with gilt fouled anchor buttons.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Bavarian WSP Officer Tunic
View of the machine sewn Bavarian Polizei sleeve isignia on the left sleeve. This insignia is embroidered in gilt wire on blue felt backing.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Bavarian Polizei
View of the back of the Bavarian WSP tunic showing the two panel cut with a central seam. It is made without a vent in the tail in typical naval style.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Description: Bavarian Wasserschutzpolizei
The Hamburg City Gate insignia on each lapel.
I have not added anything to this thread for awhile so here is an early West German Berlin Schutzpolizei tunic. It is blue and was worn without shoulder boards. The US forces did not like the new German Police being dressed in green so they mandated blue uniforms in the 1940s. German Police agencies gradually changed back to the traditional green uniforms that one sees in Germany today.
Backside.
Here now the visor cap with the star that has the Hambufg City Gate insignia.
Special belt buckle locking wheel device on the wool waist band.
View of the NCO rank insignia that is machine sewn to the right sleeve. I am not certain of this particular rank.
Close up view of the collar tabs. Notice the grey Litzen are embroidered on black backing. The squared collar tabs are machine sewn to the collar.
Here the inside back.
The pants have a green stripe down their sides.
Interior view of the Berlin Schupo tunic. Notice that there is a bandage pocket and a slit in the right hip pocket for the holster to be worn suspended from the trouser belt. This slit is typical of West German Police tunics that are made so the pistol can be worn on the outside of the tunic without an exterior belt. Also notice the interior straps for belt hooks in case an exterior belt is worn.
George
Here my Hamburg Polizei Oberleutnant tunic .Posted by Bernd.
Shoulder board and city insignia .
The tailor lable below the inside left breastpocket.
Green stripe of the pants leg.
"Hamburg"it should be ! Inside of the cap.
Thanks Bernd! What I was really surprised about is the quality of some of these visors. The last visor is WSP? Is the below what you wanted to see?
c
Dave : VERY NICE ! I like to see a close-up of the gray wool cap with the bullion leaves around the national bulls eye ,--PLEASE . Can't make out what state or city this one is ??? The last one you showed I also can not place --is it a veteran's club one ?? Thanks , Bernd .
Not sure what I was thinking but one day when Reich collecting went slow....
Bernd: Agreed and for 30 pieces of E. & W. German headgear, I paid a fraction of what one resonable Reich era Schupo enlisted visor sells for!
Dave : Thanks , yes that is the one . Very nice bullion work . I like the German Polizei visor caps also ; first for the high quality and second for their reasonable price . Regards , Bernd .
This one is nice...I think...
b
quote:
Originally posted by bernd:
Dave : VERY NICE ! I like to see a close-up of the gray wool cap with the bullion leaves around the national bulls eye ,--PLEASE . Can't make out what state or city this one is ??? The last one you showed I also can not place --is it a veteran's club one ?? Thanks , Bernd .
Bernd
Yes, the hat shown by Dave is an obsolete issue (last worn around the mid 70's) WSP one from Nordrhein / Westfalen.
Dave, by the way that is a very nice little collection of WG Hats. I especially like these older ones because of the wide variety of materials use. I know the foudnation for the Police Re-Org. of the 70's, but they took a lot of character out of the uniforms. The only scarier thing is the new uniforms starting to appear in some of the states.......
Andrew
Closer
d
Dave,
Glad to see that you were able to get the older posts loaded back up. I was hoping they hadn't been "lost".
Additionally, for those just coming here, page 1 of this thread features an in-depth examination of the post war police insignia for the states of Baden-Wurttemburg and Bavaria. The next posting will be on Berlin.
Anyone with questions regarding post war police insignia is encouraged to contact me. Additionally, corrections / updates are highly encouraged.
Andrew
Here my latest Bundes -Polizei rainovercoat for traffic police and visor cap ; 2 different states . Posted by Bernd
Upper interior area with manufacturer's tag . Ink-pen name at interior of collar : Michael Schlolfer . Buttons are marked to Overhoff & Co and their OLC mark , size 20-1/2 M .
Here now the visor cap with it's waterproof top material.
Upper back area.
White interior silk liner with celloide with gilt lettering : " Landesbeschaffungsstelle Baden- Wuerttemberg , 5 ,55,"--- and name on paper slip :" Peter Walz--II. Zug ". A nice and quality Visor cap !
Close-up of the tag.
..and backside.
...and open collar front.
...and the full dress Pol. decoration medal bar.
..and close-up.
Reinforcement at the sleeve area , underside is left open for about 4-inches.
..and sideview.
Overall interior view.
Andrew,
Some wonderful patches! It is great to see the progression of the patches of a single jurisdiction over time. I have noticed that the postwar Tschakos have also come into their own in the past few years and are becoming quite collectable.
George
George
Yeah, it is interesting as you get involved in collecting each state to watch the progression. Sometimes it can be a real head scratcher as you think you have gotten a grasp on it, and then realize you don't..... some state are easy, like Schleswig Holstein (English Controlled). Others are a royal pain like Bavaria (US Controlled).
Andrew
Andrew,
Can you discuss the differences in the crowns we see on Berlin Wappen? I understand the East Germans did not like one or the other versions because it harkened back to Imperial times. I am a bit shaky on the differences however.
This is a cap that was given to me when I visited the Berlin Polizei just after the fall of the wall.
George
1st up, post war Hamburg NCO Tschako. This has basically the same construction that the WWII ones have, including the adjustable vent holes.
Next up, patches from the state of Baden-Wurttemberg. The photos show a wide array, from post war police, to current issue.
Also included are some civilian enforcement patches. Most of the times these patches will be titled with a variety of names such as "polizeibehorde" "Ordnungspolizei" "Ordnungsbehorde" "Verkehrsuberwachungs" etc.. Basically these are non-police officers who are tasked with civilian enforcement of local laws such as littering, parking infractions, etc.. Each state is different in its terminology and this is only a "bumber sticker explanation".
George
No problem. The high crown design (Red Crown) was instituted in 1935 as the official stadtwappen of Berlin.
After WWII both West & East Berlin continued to use this form. In the early 1950's there was an effort to move away from "association" with East Germany. Subsequently the crest was redesigned and in approx. 1954 West Berlin changed their stadt wappen to the one depicted below in Gold.
The East Berlin crest remainined in effect till 1990.
Andrew
The next series of photos are from the state of Hessen. This depicts both obsolete and current insignia. Of special note is the post war "Border Police" patch written in English, German, French and Russian
Photos of the pocket badges will be forthcoming.
Hope everyone enjoys the posted pics and let me know if you have any questions.
Andrew
Bernd
Yes, German post war collecting can be a lot of fun. I don't think many collectors realize how many patches are out there, especially from the American controlled sector which had a lot of Town & City police departments. Things slowed down after the transition and the "uniform reorganization" in the mid 70's. But since the late 80's there are more and more special unit patches which makes collecting a lot more fun.
I always liked the old Berlin High Crown stadtwappen. I have a few old patches with this crown.
I did have the old Berlin Tschako high crown badge at one time, but I had to sell most of it after a divorce. Slowly I am rebuilding my collection a little at a time.
Andrew
Next up, a later issue Tschako from Nordrhein Westfalen.
Thought I would add some pics of my recent collection purchase. The subsequent photos will show some of the post war insignia I was able to acquire. This in addition to the 3rd Reich items.
This photo depicts insignia from Bavaria. The 1st city police forces were created after WWII and slowly began to be incorporated into the state police beginning in 1953. The last city in Bavaria to be merged was Munich in 1975.
I've been collecting civilian police insignia for over twenty years with an interest in German. Unfortunaly it's not as extensive as it once was after I had to pay an attorney for a divorce ten years ago.
If you follow this link:
http://www.huntzmanpatches.com/germany(C).htm you will come to my German page. Each federal and state agency is listed individually, and at the bottom is a link you can follow to my newbie WWII collection.
Anyone with questions please feel free to ask / email me.
Andrew
Next up are the civilian insignia. Note the name change progression in the Frankfurt am Main ones.
Next up is an array of patches from throughout Germany. These represent both old and new insignia. The "Polizei Bremerhaven" is an obsolete style from when the city and state maintained there own police forces. This is a rank patch and would have been worn for Polizei Kommissar until 1968. Each patch had a different rank !!
Andrew : You did a great job showing us these very different and colorful patches . Sure can keep you intersted to get them all. Only post-war shako I have is one for the city of West-Berlin with the bear and a high "crown " . In use around 1950's . Ps. I recall a guy at my Federal Office who was a Federal Police Officer and collected US.city and county -Police and Sherif sleeve patches :--all just as different and colorful !
and last but not least, corrections !!
Now that these reference threads have been resurrected and separated I thought I would post a West German Police assault harness. This one is very similar to the WWII style.
The front clips are distinctive and different from the WWII clips and can quickly identify this assault harness as postwar.
Police school markings and date found on the Y strap. I presume this marking indicates the Hamburg Police School?
quote:
Originally posted by ORPO:
Police school markings and date found on the Y strap. I presume this marking indicates the Hamburg Police School?
George
Nice straps. The markings might also indicate Polizei Schleswig Holstein. I think if it were suposed to be Hamburg, it might have been marked "HH"
Andrew
Interesting photo on eBay - at 1st look I thought it is Ost police, but Spandau & Charlottenburg were in West-sector & Ost police forces wore dark blue uniforms in that times....
http://cgi.ebay.at/Foto-Polizei-1945-Polizeischule-Span...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Jiri,
An excellent picture indeed. Interesting tunics with concealed flap pockets. The caps look like a mix of NS Zeit and newly made ones in police green. I particularly like the use of de-Nazified buckles, particulary the one Luftwaffe buckle.
Just got this German Water Customs removable visor cap band .It is very well made and the front is on a cardboard stiffener with padding behind the stitching .
...and aclose-up.
..and lower section close-up .
The ribbed cap band is stitched to the back of the front insignia , the overlap is stitched also .
Now some Polizei items I got .
The 3 metal insignia are for Munich , Hamburg and Berlin .The Berlin one has a srew back fastener ,the Munich and Hamburg ones have 2 prongs each .
One of the small patches are for the state of Hessen and 2 are for the state of Nordrhein -Westfalen . Does anyone know the state of the collar tab and what rank it is ????
...here is the second view !.
Probably Bayerische Landespolizei from mid 70's.
Just got some more German Police cap badges in the mail .
The upper two are for the city of Stuttgart, the lower left one is for the city of Karlsruhe and the lower right one for the city of Mannheim .
...and some more .
The upper left is for a city I can't ID , ANY INFO WELCOME ! Left upper patch is for the state of Rheinland -Pfalz, lower left cap star for the state of Niedersachsen , and lower right for the city of Berlin.
Close-up of the city I can't ID .Shows a 3 sail ship and a whale below in the water .
City of Berlin .
State of Niedersachsen.
..and 4 more .
Upper right one is for the city of Hannover ---and again one city I can't ID , ANY INFO IS WELCOME !. Lower left one is for the city of Stuttgart and lower right one is for the state of Rheinland-Pfalz .
Close-up of the 2 Rheiland-Pfalz ones .
Close-up of the Hannover and the one I can't ID .
...And 2 Feuerwehr sleeve patches for the city of Koeln .
Bernd,
I believe the last one is for Schleswig-Holstein. I don't recognize the first unknown one with the ship and whale.
George
I got some more interesting police patches in the mail I want to share with you .
..and 2 more .
..two for Bavaria and the fitting cap badge .
..and detail of the nice Bavarian coat-of-arms.
.and more.
..and a detail of the bevo weave of the Berlin one .
..in-case you do not know this lefthand eagle : it is for the former DDR-State of Brandenburg.The other one is for the city and state of Hamburg.
..And a close-up of the Brandenburg Eagle.
.. and some more sleeve patches.Both are for the state of Niedersachsen .
..and a different design for the state of Niedersachsen . Note the one is still on the entire tunic material with silk liner !
Now 2 city police sleeve patches .
..and close-up of the center design .
..and the one for KITZINGEN.
Two more city police patches.
...and close-up of the center design of BAD KISSINGEN .
..And the centerdesign of ROSENHEIM .
Sleeve patches for the city of Bamberg and Lindau am Bodensee.
..and the centerdesign again for the Bamberg one .
..and the centerdesign for the LINDAU-B one ; I think this is a oak tree .
A sleeve patch for the city of AUGSBURG .
..And the centerdesign for AUGSBURG.
Here now my new visor cap insignias.
State of HESSEN .
..and a close-up .
State of RHEINLAND-PFALZ.
..and for the state of Nordrhein -Westfalen and Rheinland-Pfalz.
I also got 2 Justice Police shoulder boards , rank of MEISTER . These are 1/4 smaller than the 3rd Reich type shoulder boards .
..and their backsides.
..AND 2 more visor cap badges :these are for the state of SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN .
...and a close-up of the 'older' looking badge.
I guess, since there were no comments on my last postings , I just have to show you some more stuff ! Here 2 nice metal shooting awards , 2 3/8 -inches across , from the POLIZEI SV ( Sports Verein ) MUENCHEN SCHUETZEN ABTEILUNG .The pattern follows the well known 3rd Reich Tyrolian shooting awards !
..and aclose-up .
The backside of the gilt one has: POLICE CHAMPIONSHIP 1960 RICHARD J.RAWLINGS . I assume that this award was won by an American GI, maybe an MP , that took part in the shooting competition .
Here now some slick paper stickers that come with the plates .
..and 2 more . One is for the Grenz Polizei .
..and for the Wasserschutzpolizei .
Nice photo of the patrolboat !
...and a humorous one !
...and one against drinking !
..and this one says : My stong Friend
..and this one says : Every day 24 star hours for you .
This one : Work and Hobby .
George should like these motorcycles !
..And a city sticker .
..And one on Safety.
This photo on the back says :" This is me with my Audi 80 patrol-car " .
Similar car --but different paint job .Others in the background .
First picture was taken in October 1986 , second one in DEC. 1987. This one also in Oct. 1986 and has on the back : Mercedes-Benz 408 --Accident-vehicle .
..and the one more : Volkswagen -Transporter.
..and a close-up of the van with the loudspeakers atop .I hope you find these photos of some interest ! Bernd
Bernd .... Absolutely fascinating Items and Photos!
It is quite interesting to see that the Quality of German emblems and designs did no end with WW2, nor should they.
Loved those first 'Meister' boards, as you can't get much more elegant or colorful.
I see that "Police Green" is preserved. City and Region 'shields' are there, but they go back to the middle ages, I believe. The type of Eagle predates the TR. The shape of the Schleswig-Holstein Cap Badges reminds me of 'Prussian' types. All is quite fascinating.
(Your individual Photos are pretty TOPS! What camera are you using?)
The additional photos are very, very interesting as well. Txs, Dave/dblmed
Hi-Dave : Thanks for your kind comments . I do like all the colorful post-war Police items ; same with the DDR .Also got a collection of uniforms and visor caps of EAST AND WEST GERMANY . The camera I am using is a old disk Sony FD Mavica , 2.0 MEGA PIXELS ,that is great for close-up work ; the disk holds 30 to 31 photos .My son Douglas gave it to me years ago for Christmas . Nice present . Bernd .
Bernd .......Your Great Photos are as the result of your SKILL as the Photographer, rather than the Type of, or Pixel Size of a specific 'latest model' Camera! (We can all learn for your example).
You must have a very big basement (or a nearby warehouse) for the display of your extensive collection!!! Txs for Sharing & Educating... Dave/dblmed
Dave : Again thanks for your kind comments . Bernd
Bernd,
I was looking through the pages for this posting and saw that you were looking for help identifying two older style Polizei hat badges. The one with the ship and whale/fish lokking object under the ship is from the city of Bremerhaven. The second badge with the v-shaped symbol and the arc on the top is from the city of Kiel in the state of Schleswig-Holstein. There is a 3 volume series of books from Germany, the Polzei Abzeichen set, which are a great resource for older items, the series covers three eras: Book 1 (start of Police -1918), Book 2 (1918-1945) and Book 3 (1945-1993). The author is Erich Radecke.
Joe: Thanks for the great ID work and info . Bernd
I just got this nice Berlin Police Buckle . Any idea what time frame when this was worn ? I assume it is West-Berlin !
..and the backside .
Bernd, You have a most amazing collection of postwar Police items.
Just a question - are You living in germany ?
I wonder cause I think it is very hard to get these items if You are from abroad.
And another question - are You collecting papers too ?
If yes, I could have something for You.
You can mail me
email@photosammler.de
Kind regards
Robert
Robert : Thanks for your kind remarks . I live in Leawood , Kansas , USA. Leawood is a township of the greater Kansas City area , 1 Million .
Here now my latest ' Bereitschaftspolizei-Berlin ' sleeve patch .
..and a close-up .
..and even closer .
Wanted to share with you my pre-1954 "high-crown" West-Berlin Polizei shako .I got it 30 years ago in a small militaria shop in Tampa , Florida .
Close-up of the front Berlin star plate.
Close-up of the Berlin insignia with the 'high-crown ' , which was used by West-Berlin pre-1954.
..and a side-view .The screened vents have a little slide closure plate on the inside .
Interior view . The manufacturer's paper sticker was gone when I got it .But the size and the initials of the Policeman who had it on his head are there .
Close-up .
...and one more view .
Now my 1968 dated 'NIEDERSACHSEN 'Polizei Hauptmann tunic .
It is of thick dark green wool and has a dark green silk liner .
..and a side view.
..close-up of the shoulder board.
..close-up of the sleeve insignia .
..stitching work under the collar .
..view of the interior shows dark green silk liner , left side breast pocket , gray white liner of the sleeve .
Inside of the pocket is a white linen Manufacturer's tag with the letters :'R&B'and the year as '1968'.
There is also a belt ramp support strap , but there are no openings through the tunic .
..the openings are sewn shut ! Here the backside view .
And now my LANDESPOLIZEI BREMEN Meister tunic . It is of summertwill weave with a partial gray silk liner on the upper back and the 2 front sides only .
..upper section .
..and the nice shoulder board.
..and the sleeve insignia again .
..and a close-up of the nice center design .
Interior view shows the silk liner of the left side , interior breast pocket , white liner of the sleeve . This tunic also has belt ramp support straps and again the openings through the tunic are sewn shut .
Manufacturer's tag shows this tunic was also made by ' R&B ' and is dated to 'Januar 1967'.
...and a bckside view again .
This is the only West German item I have.Any idea what city it's from?
Side view.
Insignia.
Cockade.
Interior.
I can't read the makers label other than the size 57. Any ideas what company made it or the time frame?
Here now my latest HAMBURG Polizei items I just got in the mail .
First a woven sleeve insignia.
2nd : A visor cap star .
3rd: Two Collar insignias , 'V' with oakleaves stickpin for may be 'Polizei Verein ', and a 2 place ribbon bar with a Hamburg Service medal and German Sports Bund medal .
.and a close-up .
4th : A Hamburg police officer's visor cap .
..and a side view .
..and interior view .
..and maker logo .
Here now a "rare bird "to find : a 1977 dated and named Wasserschutz Polizei tunic and pants for the Bundesland /state of Rheinland -Pfalz .
..upper section of the tunic .
..and arm sleeve state insignia.Nice stitching work .
3 cellon gilt arm stripes for " Korvetten- kapitaen" Navy Rank .Don't know what the Police rank would be called .
Fire-gilted navy buttons on the 10 button front .
Buttons are hmkd. with the well known 'OLC' or the Bundeseagle and 20mm for size .
Lefthand inside breastpocket has this tailor tag with date of 1977 and 'L' for large size .
Righthand inside breastpocket has this name tag :"MUELLER,P."
Button fly pants closure and overlap belt closure .
Elastic inside waist band .
..and same tailor tag ; and with '48' for pants size .
Here now a Wasserschutz-Polizei visor cap , but for the next Bundesland /state of Nordrhein-Westfalen .
..close-up of the front .
..and close-up of the gilt cellon bullion stitching work and gilted metal state insignia .
Side view of the cap .
Navy anchor side button to hold the plastic chin strap ; 2 vent gromets at the side ..
Interior has dark blue silk liner , gray leather liner and clear plastic diamond .
Gilt lettering by the manufacturer .Dated 9/74 and size 57.
..and one more side view of the nice front .
Bernd..... Just fantastic items! What an education to see them - and learn what was carried over from the TR, and what was omitted. Posts like yours just keep that learning curve well fed and going strong!... Txs, Dave/dblmed
Dave , thank you for your kind remarks .
Here now a 1948 West German Police belt and buckle I got today . The center of the buckle now has the Swastika omitted .
The buckle is hmkd. 'FLL' inside 3 circles and the belt hook is hmkd. 'OLC' within a diamond shape .
..and close-up of the buckle front .
..and the backside .
The backside of the belt has the owner's name in black ink : 'Reimers, Polizei '--
and the belt size as ' 115'.
..here the photo .
..and now the entire backside of the buckle .
..and close-up of the "FLL" hmk.
Happy New Year to all !
For christmas my son brought me these two 1/2 liter beer steins . First one is for the city police of Bremen .
..and a close-up.
The second 1/2 liter stein was for a police show with sports and music at the Olympia-Stadion in Berlin 1987.
..and to the right side it shows a 'Polizei-Sergeant um 1845' .
Now my latest West- German police items
.First items seem to be for 'GP', Grenz Polizei .
...and a close-up.
Second item is a nice sleeve patch for the police air patrol of the state of Rheinland-Pfalz .
...and a close-up .
Third item is a nice collar tab .
Fourth items are three nice ' Meister ' -rank shoulder boards .
..and a close-up .
..and one more showing the quality workmanship .
Fifth items are two shoulder boards from a different state , since these are on a dark green wool .
..and a close-up again .
.. the front section of the 'Meister' board.
Bernd,
the last two are BGS
Jiri: Thanks for the info. Bernd
Here my latest 'ZOLL OFFIZIER SCHIRMMUETZE' = Customs officer's visor cap .
Please note that the visor is covered with cloth .
..and a close-up .
..and a side view.
Interior view , silk liner and foam padded leather liner / sweat band .
..and the maker hmk.
,,,and close-up of interior construction . Edgs has a metal ring band reinforcement .
A question for anyone , but possibly Andrew in particular. On the first page of this thread, post 5 I think, you posted a picture of some Bayerische Grenzpolizei arm badges. One had a double white circle around the outside edge one more towards the centre. Do you know during what time period the arm badge that has the double white circles that are not around the outside edge was worn?
Regards,
Gordon