Dave Cameron
Posted 06 November 2003 17:14
As suggested by another member, I’m going to start branch specific uniform threads. It seems that great uniforms are scattered across are 6,750 postings on 18 pages and to cover all branches on a single thread could be cumbersome. It is a mutual feeling that this consolidation of branch specific uniforms into one thread will perhaps provide an easier reference for visiting collectors. Fire away...I'll add mine after I set up a torso figure.
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 14:40
Regulation Feuerschutzpolizei 1938 model Feldbluse with bright karmesin piping throughout. This G.Assmann tailored tunic is dated 1942 and has black collar and cuffs instead of the later brown color. The pink color piping will properly show florescence under a black light.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 14:51
Removable Obertruppmann shoulder board with black inner cords and karmesin backs.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 14:59
Collar tabs with karmesin backing and aluminum litzen and piping. Black wool collar with karmesin piping.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 15:08
Karmesin sleeve eagle and swastika on black wool backing. These eagles were also worn on the Prussian blue Feuerwehr unifoms.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 15:16
Adjustable belt hooks at the sides of the tunic. These removable belt hooks, and the removable shoulder boards, indicate this tunic is a Feldbluse rather than a Dienstrock.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 09 November 2003 15:21
Reverse of tunic showing belt hook half-buttons and removable wire belt hooks at the side. The cuffs are functional and button and unbutton for rolling up the sleeves.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Jiri Libal sr.
Posted 10 November 2003 19:00
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ORPO:
Removable Obertruppmann shoulder board with black inner cords and karmesin backs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great item!
But there are 2 things I don't understand:
1) As I know rank Obertruppmann was used only in FFW, not in FSP?!?
2) The blouse is made in 1942, as You stated. In this case there are not appropriate shoulderboards (without quer cords on shoulder side).
Posts: 451 | Location: Praha, Czech Republic | Registered: 01 July 2002
ORPO
Posted 11 November 2003 00:20
Jiri,
As these are removable boards I cannot be certain they are orignal to the tunic. I used the FW rank since the boards have black centers. What would the proper designation of this rank be for the FSP? This is the Knötel uniform plate for the FSP showing the uniform with shoulder boards that do not have the shoulder side cords.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Jiri Libal sr.
Posted 11 November 2003 02:46
ORPO,
see
http://www.volny.cz/lbsr/dr/pol/dg_36-45.html.
Is there 1st Aid Pocket in this type of Feldbluse?
Posts: 451 | Location: Praha, Czech Republic | Registered: 01 July 2002
ORPO
Posted 11 November 2003 08:50
Jiri,
This Feldbluse does have the interior first aid pocket. Since the tunic is only stamped with the date of 1942, I cannot tell which month it was made. It has a private tailor's label from G. Assmann in Halle a/s. As the rank regulations changed in April of 1941 and the cuffs and collar changed from black to brown in March 1942 the tunic should have been made between January and March 1942. It seems to me that this fellow retained his old Revier- (Bezirks-) oberwachtmeister shoulder boards that would be designated as Obertruppmann boards in the Feuerwehr. In my experience, it is common for policemen to continue to wear old style (alte Art [a.A.]) insignia, uniforms, and equipment well after changes in regulations.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Ernst H
Posted 11 November 2003 11:24
George,
the practice of wearing old style uniforms (Alter Art) past the introductiondate of new uniforms (neuer Art) is something that is part of the regulation change.
It is found in every (or almost every) order that I know of that old stuff had to be worn out.
I have pictures of the pre 1936 Schupo greatcoat being worn over the M36 tunic untill well into 1938.
Ernst
GDC-Silver#0316
Posts: 1213 | Registered: 09 October 2001
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 16:58
Officers Tunic with brown collar and cuffs.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:06
Collar
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:10
Board with black nebenfarbe
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:16
eagle
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:19
Back
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:32
NCO tunic with brown collar and cuffs
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:37
Collar sorry about the colour didnt come out very well using a standard 35m
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:41
board
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:47
crimson eagle
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 11 November 2003 17:50
Back of tunic
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
patrick
Posted 14 November 2003 19:25
Like George's my FSP tunic has the black eagle.
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
ORPO
Posted 17 November 2003 00:34
Pat, is your FSP tunic a Feldbluse like mine or a Dienstrock without the adjustable belt hooks? I love those Meister tunics!
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
patrick
Posted 18 November 2003 20:50
George,
I'm going to say by the amount of use that it was a Feldbluse with hooks that are not adjustable.
Also here is a neat little post card from Knotel, showing Feuerwehr.
pat
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
ORPO
Posted 18 November 2003 22:14
Pat,
I have seen the fixed belt hooks before on Fire Service tunics. I think they needed the extra support for the large leather or cloth equipment belts as shown in your postcard. Neat postcard by the way...part of a Tag der deutschen Polizei set and not a part of the original large folio.
Here is an interesting Fire Service Meister tunic that is either early Feuerschutzpolizei, Feuerloschpolizei, or Feuerwehr. It is made in the Polizei style without French cuffs and it does not quite fully meet any regulations (as those pesky Meister fellows seem to do so often) but I think it is probably Feuerloschpolizei. What do you guys think?
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 18 November 2003 22:20
Sewn in Meister shoulder boards with black and aluminum centers on carmine backing. The buttons are all smooth nickel finished.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 18 November 2003 22:25
Machine sewn collar tabs, without aluminum cord piping, on tall Prussian blue collar with carmine piping. The aluminum litzen have black centers and are on carmine velvet backing.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 18 November 2003 22:31
Machine sewn carmine sleeve eagle for the town of Winkl.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 18 November 2003 22:37
Back of tunic showing the standard four panel cut with a boxed tail. The two nickel buttons at the tail are belt supports and notice the short cuffs piped in carmine without buttons.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2455 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Ernst H
Posted 19 November 2003 02:43
George,
These piped cuffs can be found, also on different ranks.
I attach two pictures. First shows frontal and back shot of the pre1936 Feuerlöschpolizei tunic. (this one is different from yours in that it has slip-on boards, no piped cuffs and other insignia)
Second picture is a detail from a group of feuerwehr men. The piping along the cuff can (only just) be seen. No buttons are present on the cuff
BTW the Knötel drawing posted by Patrick also shows the piped Cuffs without buttons.
Ernst
GDC-Silver#0316
Posts: 1213 | Registered: 09 October 2001
Ernst H
Posted 19 November 2003 02:43
2nd picture
Posts: 1213 | Registered: 09 October 2001
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:11
Hi ORPO
That is a nice early fire police tunic with that style of eagle with the ribbon at the bace of the oakleaves instead of the later X.
Here is my private purchase open collar tunic that has an extra button to allow it to be fully closed to the neck.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:15
collar
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:19
board
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:23
eagle
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:27
back
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:32
Taylor Tag
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:38
Double decal fire helmet with no comb in minty condition with a few scratches paint work is 98%
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:43
The other side
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:49
Doulbe decal fire police helmet with comb with 99% paint
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 19 November 2003 17:51
other decal
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
ORPO
Posted 20 November 2003 10:16
Ernst, Thanks for showing the photos. The second Feuerwehr tunic picture does look like it has the same cuffs as the Winkl one. The blue tunics I normally associate with Fr. FW are the ones with French cuffs. Of course period photos all show quite a mix of green, blue, and other various dress among Fire personnel, even in the same Zug.
Gary, I like that Winkl eagle too. The ribbon wreath binding really stands out from the normal X configuration binding. I noticed the fake Bevo style cap eagles that came out of Germany a couple of years ago did not get the X configuration correct and instead embroidered some sort of flower looking thing at the bottom of the wreath instead. These fake eagles were machine sewn to equally fake Polizei side caps in black and green with exotic pipings when they showed up in the US.
Has anyone found regs for when the combed helmets were worn? I thought the combs were for leaders, but there are photos of whole troops of FW folks wearing them.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
patrick
Posted 20 November 2003 11:02
George,
Do you have a picture or scan of one of these fake eagle's and caps you are talking about.
pat
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
Diane Schreiber
Posted 20 November 2003 11:32
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gary8: Here is my private purchase open collar tunic that has an extra button to allow it to be fully closed to the neck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't this insignia combination incorrect for the Werkfeuerwehr? They should have a different style of collar tab - similar to the style work by the RAD EM's and Army Sonderfuhrer and the center of the shoulder boards should have a carmine stitching instead of black. Also the collar tabs are normaly lined up with the top of the collar - not the bottom. When the collar was open the tabs would normally point inward to the wearers neck.
Please keep in mind that there are many variations of Feuerwehr uniforms and insignia and quite a few intra-service transfers between the professional, volunteer and Factory Fire Fighting Forces.
Posts: 153 | Location: Keene, New Hampshire - USA | Registered: 20 July 2001
Gary8
Posted 20 November 2003 12:04
Hello Diane
This tunic is direct from Angolia, if he liked it I have no problem with it. I would think this tunic is pretty late war as the collar patches are the bevo type.
I have never seen any fire police tunic with the RAD type collar patches or with the pink in the middle of the boards.
If you have one or anything that show this I would be greatly interested to see it.
The collar patches are machine sewn and everything is original to the tunic as far as I can tell, do not know about the eagle but who would!!
Here is the collar closed. I still do not see any problem. The collar lies flat but I would summise that is because the collar was never made to be closed, that is why the patches are matched to the bottom and not the top.
[This message was edited by Gary8 on 20 November 2003 at 12:21.]
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 20 November 2003 12:29
Werkfeuerwehr personel
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 20 November 2003 12:33
front row
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 20 November 2003 14:57
Here is a link to the werkfeuerwehr question which would place my tunic pre 1942.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=042090...343006095#1343006095 Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
ORPO
Posted 21 November 2003 02:01
Pat, I don't have a scan of the repro bevo style eagles, but they are distincive in that they are an elongated "tall" grey eagle. The giveaway is the X shaped ribbon at the bottom of the wreath is missing and a "flower" with a center and surrounding petals is embroidered in place of the "X." Some of these were sewn onto reproducttion black sidecaps with green piping as well as police green ones with Gemdindepolizei, etc piping...all with fake rubber stamps and dates.
Gary & Dianne, In my experience there was a wide variety of Werkschutz and Werkfeuerschutz uniforms and insignia. Dianne is absolutly correct that there was a lot of "job sharing" among these folks as the photos on Gary's link show.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
patrick
Posted 26 November 2003 12:54
George,
Is the eagle you were talking about?
pat
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
patrick
Posted 26 November 2003 12:58
brown
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
ORPO
Posted 26 November 2003 15:51
Pat,
Yes, this is the eagle that is a repro in my opinion. I know that some folks like this eagle, but it is a reproduction in my world. I saw the brown ones in German flea markets and the black ones were machine sewn to the entirely fake side caps that came out of Germany a couple of years ago. Not any other eagle, but this particular eagle...and put on during manufacture. The hats sold at MAX and SOS and have bogus (but proper) rubber stamps in the lining. The tip off on the side hats were that the piping did not come far enough down in front and back and the stiffening inside was made of plastic mesh instead of natural buckram. And, of course, they had this eagle on the front.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Gary8
Posted 03 December 2003 13:25
Here is the latest aquasition to come to the fold. Fire police with black collar and cuffs. Unfortunately I managed to pull a button off the thing with in a hour of getting it. Thats what you get when you try and fit a small tunic to a large body form, anyway here it is.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 03 December 2003 13:28
Collar
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 03 December 2003 13:31
Shoulderboard
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 03 December 2003 13:34
eagle
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 03 December 2003 13:40
back
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
ORPO
Posted 03 December 2003 21:09
Gary,
A very nice early Feuerschutzpolizei Leutnant tunic. The eagle looks like another cello and bullion mixture with cello wings...correct? Don't feel bad about the button. I broke one off the shank the other day when putting it on a torso form. You can sew yours back on. I don't know what I am going to do with mine. If I solder it back together it will probably pop off the paint finish. If I replace it, the new one will not match the others. And to think, we are able to do this damage all by ourselves.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Gary8
Posted 08 December 2003 16:47
Hi Orpo
You are correct on the eagle, well spotted, to be true I never even noticed it, but on closer inspection it does seem to be of a finer grade than the bullion, thiner, but lookd subdued, this would have looked great when it was new, bright eagle with dull wings.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 02 January 2004 21:20
couple of eagles
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 02 January 2004 21:22
aome more
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Dave Cameron
Posted 13 January 2004 00:32
Seen this on eBan: Foto - Frauen bei der Feuerpolizei
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
JWotka
Posted 13 January 2004 15:42
George, according to the regs the helm with comb were intended for the Feuerwehr, not the Feuerschutzpolizei. The senior Feuerwehr had combs with oakleaf decorations. Baer's book contains a significant error in translation which has led some to believe the helmets could be red. His translated volume describes the helmets as in the color of the piping-carmine.In
fact, the German word is translated as uniform trim cloth which was black.
"Whoever dies with the most toys wins!" Anonymous
Posts: 1575 | Registered: 16 March 2002
ORPO
Posted 13 January 2004 19:10
Joe,
Many thanks for the correct info on the combed FW helmets. I think the red helmets that one sees were either used after the war or perhaps even manufactured after the war for fire department use. The red fiber and the plastic FW helmets are certainly postwar issue.
Dave,
Great picture of the female Fire Service members. Here is one of the green FSP jumpsuits for females. The ones they are wearing in the photo appear to be men's clothing instead of being made for a female.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 13 January 2004 19:31
This coverall has wooden buttons that button left to right instead of right to left. It also has sewn in gussets at the breast and a trapdoor in the seat. It is made specifically for female personnel.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 13 January 2004 19:36
Machine sewn eagle on drillich material patch on left sleeve.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
JWotka
Posted 13 January 2004 19:41
No evidence of a Pinkel pocket, eh?
"Whoever dies with the most toys wins!" Anonymous
Posts: 1575 | Registered: 16 March 2002
Dave Cameron
Posted 14 January 2004 00:45
"Pinkel pocket, eh"
Nice jumpsuit! I guess if I post the picture, you can post the actual material…I like this! What next to post!
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
JWotka
Posted 19 January 2004 14:38
And here is an Oberleutnant der Feuerschutzpolizei with black facings and black banded Schirmmutze. Sorry for the quality of the digital.
"Whoever dies with the most toys wins!" Anonymous
Posts: 1575 | Registered: 16 March 2002
JWotka
Posted 19 January 2004 14:42
Here is a shot of the visor eagle. It is a single molding but shows two piece depth to the eagle. It is a nice Erel with the vent behind the eagle.
"Whoever dies with the most toys wins!" Anonymous
Posts: 1575 | Registered: 16 March 2002
patrick
Posted 19 January 2004 16:32
Joe,
Dave is right that is a super nice tunic and visor. I also like the belt with cross strap
I'm posting two district leader badges for FeuerWR. I think the top one is orig. but the bottom one looks very new and I'm just no sure about it. Anyway its a filler.
pat
"I only had two beers officer, I swear."
"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"
Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002
Ernst H
Posted 20 January 2004 09:51
Here a figure of a member of the Feuerwehr/Feuerschutzpolizei
Ernst
GDC-Silver#0316
Posts: 1213 | Registered: 09 October 2001
Gary8
Posted 29 January 2004 20:42
Here is a couple of new arrivals this week
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
ORPO
Posted 29 January 2004 22:44
Very nice eagles Gary. The one on the right is the same one that is on my female FW coveralls pictured above. I am sure they were worn on the men's coveralls as well.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Gary8
Posted 05 February 2004 17:23
OK guy's heres a suggestion, if you want to keep these threads going why not start posting pictures of those caps and insignia, I know that some of you might find these insignia boring but they are some of the best made, so here are some more eagles. Thanks guys for the nice comments on those eagles
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 05 February 2004 17:26
Orpo Here is one of those eagles you like so much
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
ORPO
Posted 05 February 2004 19:42
Gary,
It is nice to see the wide variations of these sleeve eagles. I think FW eagles are particularly diverse since there were so many manufacturers. You are also right about keeping the threads going. Here is my contribution...a Feuerschutzpolizei greatcoat for an identified Rev. Ltn. from Hamburg. I am sure this fellow had his hands full during the Allied firebombing of that city.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 05 February 2004 19:46
Sewn in Leutnant shoulder boards with bright aluminum tops with black Vs and carmine underlay. The tag identifies the owner as a "Rev. Ltn."
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Posted 05 February 2004 19:51
Collar detail showing the bright carmine underside of the collar. The collar top is black wool with carmine piping. The underside of the collar must have been very stylish when worn turned up. I have also seen velvet undersides on blue FW officer greatcoat collars.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
ORPO
Posted 06 March 2004 16:51
My newly aquired Feuerwehr/Feuerschutzpolizei bayonet and belt rig which appears to have been together for years. The belt has a blackened catch that matches the blackened buckle. This Faschinenmesser was manufactured by J. Dirlam & Söhne, and is a seldom seen maker. Their unusual logo is a collar button containing a J.D. and an S. The long bladed Faschinenmesser was worn by Firemen up to the rank of Meister.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Jiri Libal sr.
Posted 29 April 2004 16:55
ORPO,
Your greatcoat is great (especially carmine collar bottom!!!)
But why are FW shoulderboards on FSP greatcoat???
Posts: 451 | Location: Praha, Czech Republic | Registered: 01 July 2002
ORPO
Posted 29 April 2004 23:52
Jiri,
Thanks for the kind words on the greatcoat. I don't know why this coat has the FW style boards instead of the FSP style boards, unless it was made prior to the new insignia regulations or he simply continued to wear the old style (aArt) insignia. Unfortunately, there is no date on the tag.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Dave Cameron
Posted 16 May 2004 17:31
Another example:
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
Dave Cameron
Posted 16 May 2004 17:32
From the side:
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
ORPO
Posted 17 May 2004 13:32
Dave,
What is the name on your FSP sleeve eagle. Any chance of a closeup of the eagle?
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Dave Cameron
Posted 17 May 2004 23:45
George:
The insignia is named: Hervest-Dorsten. What’s really sweet about the insignia is that the original owner cut away the green field areas (between name and eagle, under the wings-inside the wreath, closely cut around above the letters) and neatly applied it…a fantastic detailed job. I’ll try a picture but I’m having a bugger of a time photographing the carmine color!
I don’t think I’ll be tired of this immaculate tunic any time soon!
Posts: 1673 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 08 April 2001
Gary8
Posted 16 September 2004 12:25
Here is a new one I got today from Gerard. It is very unusual, the material is velvety to the touch with no shoulderboards having ever been fitted. The interior has no lining except for some sackcloth in the sleaves and the same material to make up the pockets. Collar patches seem to be padded and machine applied.
The arm eagle is not a type that I have encountered before, So I do not know if it is a repro or not, the deefinition of the eagle is great but the thing that throws me is the town name, seems to be too neat and in the wrong position.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 16 September 2004 12:28
Collar with two sets of hook and eyes, silver dished unmarked buttons.
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 16 September 2004 12:30
Eagle
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Gary8
Posted 16 September 2004 12:33
Back
Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002
Diane Schreiber
Posted 16 September 2004 12:52
Hi Gary,
From the mid to latter part of the war Police and Fire Police Eagles were often made without the town name (a simplification of the manufacturing process). When the eagles were supplied to the town the town named could be embroidered along the top by a local tailor.
We have to rememeber that the from about 1943 onward the Fire Police was reorganized and "nationalized" so that they could more efficiently deal with the wide spread destruction caused by aerial bombing. It was normal part of operations to have Fire-Police units deployed from smaller towns & cities to areas that had been heavily bombed.
For instance after the anglo-American Fire bombing of Dresden in Febraury 1945 Fire-Police units were dispatched from Berlin, Leipzig and even far away Hamburg to help put ot the fires and initiate rescue operations. Most of the Dresden Fire Police had been killed during the second wave of bombing and there was no one left alive to fight the fires.
The Fire-Bombing raids on Dresden were brilliantly executed in that they targed the most densly populated residential areas and were timed in such as way to cause maximum casualties to Fire-Police and rescue personnel engaging in rescue operations.
The Fire-Police issued a heavy denim type tunic meant for Fire / operationsal use. I've seen these tunics in a heavy brown / beige colored cordoroy material as well as a dark blue denim.
I like your tunic wouldn't worry about the sleeve eagle. This looks like one of those mid-late war style eagles where the town name was embroidered locally at a later date.
Diane
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Diane Schreiber, 16 September 2004 13:01
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Posts: 153 | Location: Keene, New Hampshire - USA | Registered: 20 July 2001
ORPO
Posted 17 September 2004 14:55
Gary,
Nice tunic. I agree with Diane about the locally embroidered town names. I see nothing wrong with the insignia.
George
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003
Jiri Libal sr.
Posted 30 September 2004 18:39
Great tunic, Gary!
I did't know that such a material was used for FFW uniforms!
The eagle seems to be OK and I'm pretty sure it is original...the lettering is a little unusual as You said...
After Loehken's book (p. 149-151) "Feuerwehrmann unter 6 Monate" wore no shoulderboards.
Collar patches are in form used before 28.7.36.
(schwarzes Sammt mit karmesinroten Vorstoessen).
Piping was deleted 28.7.36 too.
IMHO this blouse is from "Uebergangszeit" (1936).
Besse is in Bundesstaat Hessen (here is the link):
http://www.schwalm-eder-kreis.city-map.de/city/db/10240..._-_Besse.html?str=-1 This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jiri Libal sr., 30 September 2004 18:51
Posts: 451 | Location: Praha, Czech Republic | Registered: 01 July 2002
Here is another hat that I can contribute to this thread. A lovely summer peaked cap with black centre band and crimson piping
Very nice side view, the top looks as though it has been pushed back a little to give it a more jounty look
Inside maker with unusual colour for the maker mark which normally black
closer
Hi,
Which uniforms wears foreign vol's in Feuerschutzpolizei? Its foto any fotos exist?
Regards!
I think foreign volunteers in the fire fighting service would probably wear the old blue uniform or coveralls like other volunteers. There are photos from various countries and these are the uniforms they seem to be wearing. For instance, I have seen photos of Czech fire fighters in the Protectorate wearing the blue uniforms.
I just finished reading ALL 680 pages of Littlejohn's "Defending the Reich."
Fascinating book! Pages 470 - 603 are devoted to Police & Fire Services, with specific sections on the Feuerschutzpolizei and Feuerwehr and Freiwillige Feuerwehr and even the Girls (Feuerwehrhelferinnen) & Pflichtfeuerweheren.
MUCH More also!!! Lots of great Patches, TR Period Photos, Uniforms, Buckles & Helmets.
Well worth the purchase for the Newbie or the 'Old' Guys, IMO. Txs, Dave/dblmed
BILL .....BRAVO! You've done it again! CONGRATS!
The ensemble is spectacular, can't see a moth nip anywhere.
LOVE the really long Black extended cuffs and the special piping which is seen all around the uniform.
That Officer's cap eagle is a pretty neat one - I haven't seen one with that much degree of depth and detail before (done in Aluminum).
What year time frame would this ensemble represent?
Thanks for sharing and educating! ...Dave/dblmed
Bill,
Very nice to say the least..... I see someone been finding some nice caps lately.........
Bill, great pictures and sharp looking display! I have to say this carmine piping on green wool is my 2nd favorite after the orange of the Gend.
On another note, below is a link to tread on fire police helmets that I recently started:
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1653059744/m/7650080955
My new Tunic of the Feuerlöschpolizei. The EK on the medal bar was him for the rescue of a buried soldier awarded. I was born in the same City and i am very proud of this tunic. I get them from a old lady where live since 80 years in this city.
More Pics
The Schirmmütze
Another Schirmmütze (Knautschmütze) very rare
The Helm
the other side
The helmet was at his funeral in 1944 as his coffin, and then handed over to the widow. Slightly oiled it looks like new.
Captain,
A wonderful identified outfit! The mounted FW medal bar is very nice as these are seldom seen. Thanks for showing it.
Captain,
A beautiful grouping, many thanks for showing it to us. Orpo is right as usual, we don't see many FW medal bars at all. Do you know if he was killed in the line of duty fighting a fire or something else?
Is it unusal the FW mann would receive an EK II for saving a soldier as opposed to the life saving award?
The owner came on 29 July 1944 when air strikes killed in Stuttgart. He was there with the firefighters in action and a burning roof has slain him.
His name was Richard Ambacher.
quote:
Is it unusal the FW mann would receive an EK II for saving a soldier as opposed to the life saving award?
Not in this case. For the most valiant use under bomb exposure were a total of 5 firefighters from Kirchheim u. T. with the EKII excellent. Actually wanted the firefighters had their start providing room and were surprised by the bomb attack. Suddenly, they were probably the midst of it all. It was in the year 1943.
"That tell me the old lady and i read that also in the chronicle of the fire brigade from Kirchheim.
Kirchheim is a city 15 - 20 miles from stuttgart away.
Captain,
Many thanks for the additional information & clarification on the medals. I'd definitely say his death could be classified as "line of duty", certainly in service of the Reich. Terrific grouping indeed.
The uniforms will be next year as a loan in the fire department museum in Kirchheim be seen. There, I will issue uniforms as a loan. I think that they are very good and there is such a piece of history to the present citizens can give.
The URL of the Museumspage:
http://www.feuerwehroldtimer-vfh-kirchheim.de/
That's a very nice thing to do for a museum, well done. Do you know if Herr Ambacher had a bayonet, sword or axe?
He had a bayonet in the long version! I have a lot of pictures from firefighter Ambacher too.
Captain,
Pictures of the gentleman make the whole lot complete IMO, it really puts a face on all the items & makes them much more personal. Although I don't collect uniforms, this is the type of group that would make me reconsider that, the condition is excellent & all the additional stuff just makes this a "must have" group. If you ever tire of it, I'm sure there's a dozen guys here that would go nuts to have this group, myself included
Hi Billy and W. Unland!
Thanks for your positive comments. I will be the uniform in honor of course hold. Next week I will still pictures of the bayonet and trousers and here. Unfortunately I still have the matching belt. The have also yet to find.
The long version of the Bajonett on the trousers!
I got this very nice FEUERSCHUTZPOLIZEI 'Meister' tunic at the SOS from my friend Joe Wotka.
..and a side view.
Cuffs and collar are of black wool .
,,,and close-up of the 'Meister' shoulder board.
..and close-up of the collar tab .
...and close-up of the fire red sleeve eagle .
..and detail.
The blsck leather belt with paper composition backing I had gotten from Joe at the 2005 SOS .
...and a backside view.
The interiors left arm sleeve liner has a black ink marking that reads : ' Kleidungskammer -Feuerschutzpolizei-Krefeld-1940---8---I '.
...and my son Douglas found this set of 'Meister' shouder boards at the SOS .
Here is very good example of 2 variants of 'Meister' shoulder boards - the last post (sholder boardds from SOS)and shoulder boards on tunic from JWotka...
Both these forms of boards are common in TR period.
Here now the FEUERWEHR Officer's tunic my son Douglas found at the SOS .
Upper section .
There are no issue markings , so it might be a tailor made-to-ordertunic .
Collar tabs are silver bullion .
..and a close-up.
..and the shoulder board .
Side view .
..and close-up .
The Officer's silver bullion eagle on black wool is in great shape and still has most of the highlight silver threads !
..and a close-up again .
..and an other shot .
Side view from the righthand side .
..and a view of the underside of the collar showing the stitching .
...and a backside view .
Douglas also had the luck to find this fitting FEUERWEHR Officer's buckle at the SOS .
..and it's backside .
..and close-up of the hmk.
Bernd, that is one nice Feuerwehr officers!
Here is a Pekuro Officer's in doeskin:
Stonemint - Your Feuerwehr Officer's Visor is a Beauty!!
The Condition just doesn't get any better! Wonderful Colors!
Is there any "Known Reason" for finding 'thick' vs. 'thin'
chin cords on Visors?
As time permits, can you post the Pekuro interior?
Txs, Dave/dblmed
Another one:
FSP Officer:
Another example of a pre-war black facings FSP uniform. This example has the ever so hard to find carmine pink piped straight trousers, and black band schirmmutze.
W.Unland
Better shot of the black cap band, collar and insignia, as well as a close up of the named eagle.
That is a beautiful set Bill. The pink and black contrasts are stunning, as are the leather accessories.
THAT is a beautiful tunic. Very nice. The cufftitle is interesting as is the fact that the eagle does not have "Werkfeuerwehr" above it. I guess the cufftitle was sufficient or takes the place of the eagle designation.
Regards,
William Unland
From 1942 the local names about the eagles were forbidden, because of the enemy's clarification. Because the collar mirrors were carried(worn) in this kind also only from 1942, you could be right. I also think that it as a substitute(replacement) served to expel(deport) the work fire brigade.
The uniform of the captain had some moth holes which of the previous owners already allow to repair many years ago competently from an art embroiderer with authentic thread again.
What else can I say, outstanding and quite stunning. With the sword very special. I have always liked the carmine pink piped tunics. Beautiful schirmmutze as well.
Congratulations.
William Unland
That ensemble is lights out! What a beautiful arrangement.
Looks good. You can see where the wide fireman's belt wore down the wool in the back. Clearly an actually used tunic. Collar tabs are pretty cheap. I would buy a pair and replace both rather than try to match the one on there. Hat looks good too.
Bill Unland
R69,
A fine, clean-looking uniform ... always nice seeing something like that!
Bill
My newest acquisition. A uniform of a fire service man of the fire brigade(department) KREFELD-UERDINGEN AM RHEIN. This fire brigade was one of 80 which was converted from 1939 in a professional fire prevention police. The jacket can be dated exactly, because from 1940 the town only KREFELD was called and the district UERDINGEN was not listed any more especially. The collar mirrors indicate it also clearly that it is an occupational firefighter, because these are bordered with the silver cord. A nice document piece for the short time of the blue uniforms at the fire prevention police.
This is a very nice tunic, but I think it dates from an earlier time. The nickle buttons were in use by the Prussian fire fighting services from 1934 without a sleeve patch. The creation of the national police in June 1936 introduced the sleeve unit designations as seen on your tunic. New tunics created after this date were proscribed with matt aluminum buttons.
This uniform became demonstrable till September, 1939 thus gertragen. Then only as a result of one has introduced the field-grey uniform. Because old uniforms were to be applied, this fact was nothing the special(particular). Thus it was carried(worn), e.g., in Berlin still(also) in 1942 blue with shining(pure) buttons(knobs). See also here:
http://www.feuerwehr-orden.de/ Simply uter historically the fire brigade(department) decorations of the third empire click and look at the picture of the granted a loan.
Has informed me right now. The blue Prussian uniform was carried(worn) on the fire service till approx. 1940. Then from 1940 the roughly granulated buttons(knobs) were in the blue uniform. Then from approx. 1941 one changed bit by bit on green with black material trimming. From 1943 the material trimming then like at the general police became brown.
The initial statement that the rock(skirt) comes from 1939 remains right completely
You can read this bei Deuster!
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