Should I repair the seam of this K98 bayonet frog? Or leave it as is.

The leather is very dry and fragile and would also undoubtedly benefit from some treatment.

It's a nice item - unit-marked and clearly 'been there' which leads me to think I should leave well alone, but would appreciate some guidance.

Many thanks for your advice.

Chris

2/2

i would put some leather preservative on it nothing else.

What's the best stuff to use?

Thanks

I use boiled Tibetan Yak fat.

Seiler (Yank in UK)

On a more serious note I hear that Renaissance wax and Pecards?.I am not sure about the name on the last one are good.

Renwax is a good protector but I don`t think it`ll soften anything as it dries very hard. Maybe you could try saddle soap? i wouldn`t bother with repairing it as it will always show as such. Just try & preserve it in it`s present condition. JMO

quote:

I use boiled Tibetan Yak fat.

Does it come in a paste or a spray??

In a Yak!

Having been in the leather restoration business for 10 years or so I have tried many products. First off let me say I would not recommend using any leather cream if it is not absolutely needed on a vintage leather item. Easy to put on, impossible to get off. Consider carefully before you do it.
The finest product I know of is Connoly's Hide Food. It is primarily lanolin. Smells like leather, is not sticky, disapears at room temperature and shines nicely. This is used and made by the British for Jaguar and Roll's leather car seats.
For those who are interested..Pecard's is a petroleum wax and is the nastiest goo on the Planet. do NOT put it on vintage leather if you value it.
It is made for boots and shoes in wet weather. For this purpose it is fine. It will destroy your leather collectables.
As for spending any money on this frog I would hesitate to do it myself. Leather restoration is expensive and mostly reserved for high dollar items. One of the things to steer clear of is shoe repairmen. They are primarily interested in serviceability and not restoration. I have seen many valuble leather items ruined because the owner took it to a shoe repairman.
This one needs to have the rivet removed, the piece restitched and another rivet hand hammered on. A competant repair/restoration would cost around $35-40 bucks plus shipping and the piece is probably not worth much more.
Think before you attempt to improve on any collectable...Jerry Burney

Good advice for the new as well as experienced collector.

Thanks
Dave

I use this:

http://www.leatherique.com/index.htm

I figure if the Smithsonian uses it on thier leather restoration its good to go. Not cheap but works great. Buy the leather REJUVINATOR OIL and PRESTINE CLEAN.

quote:

I figure if the Smithsonian uses it on thier leather restoration its good to go.

VonRader, Just because these people say it is used by the Smithsonian does not necessarily make it so.

Pecards, and the people selling it, made and still make this claim. The Smithsonian says differently when I called them.

I cannot say about this product but a simple Email or phone call will answere the question.


One thing bothers me about their product..right off they are talking about oils. Oil, particularly petroleum oil is death to leather. Take neatsfoot oil for instance. The oil is very popular for lots of people to put on leather. Do you know what it was developed to do? To break down leather fibers. It was used to soften stiff new shoe leather soles. Since these only last a short while it was a good use. Put it on vintage leather and your precious collectble will soften and come apart. Oil reacts to leather fibers as it would your interlaced fingers on two hands. It will let the fibers slip apart. Leather will absorb most any liquid and I emplore all who plan to "improve" their leather collectable to think long and hard about putting anything on it. Even the product I use is not proven to prevent long term damage and it might even contribute to it. I have neglected to do a 100 year study to find out...Jerry Burney

Jerry, I had the same thought about the Smithsonian. Also I am skeptical when says the owner made the stuff to restore leather, not to make money ... then charges an arm and two legs.

What about plain shoe polish on leather in good condition? Or Renn wax ?

Dave

Dave, This product is certainly much more expensive than the average leatherworker would stand for. Probably specifically marketed to a nich market. Car restorers.
I use a lot of dye in my work and a quart costs me around 12 bucks.
Analine dye has very fine pigments used to color leather. Some, not all are water based. Some is alchohol based. All have different properties. The base is a transport system to evenly distribute the pigment to the leather, then evaporate or disapear leaving the coloration.
Dye is dye but it is not shoe polish. Shoe polish is a tool that adds many things to shine & color but is mostly for repelling water. Shoes need this but vintage leather does not. It has waxes and water repellants with large partical pigments. It is not meant to be absorbed as dye is so much but to act as a thin shield.
I have seen many a German holster ruined with shoe polish. It is generally slathered on, adds too much dirty pigment and discolors threads.
I have a Friend who uses Renn Wax on all his leather. I wouldn't do it but it looks nice and I don't think it is too harmfull.
There is much that can be applied to leather that will be used in harsh environments and worn out over time. This is not the stuff to use on vintage leather that is meant to be stored in a cool dry spot. Much of the goo available will severly discolor beautifull period German dyes.
No actual long term tests have been made to my knowledge. For instance, microbes think bees wax is delicious. They thrive on the stuff and on the leather and thread that has it on it. What you put on an expensive vintage leather piece is worth thinking about...Jerry Burney

gee maybe I got ripped off????? I will call these guy up and demand to prove thier claim. If not I will file a complaint w/ the BBB. I assure you the truth will shine thru!

So in other word....there is nothing that has any REAL data to prove or disprove any restoration prodcut really works w/o destroying your items over time? Maybe we should just leave it alone? If it is in nice shape after 60 or 70 years...... leave it be.

quote:

Posted 26 August 2007 18:57 Hide Post
gee maybe I got ripped off????? I

VonRader, I wouldn't get too excited about it! If you like what the stuff does...I have read more about their site and their leather softener has oils I don't particularly like for vintage leather. The rest of it I don't know about. It could be good for what they say it's good for.
It is always interesting to see what's in the stuff you put on your leather but few list ingredients.
As far as the Smithsonian..They will not say what they use but they will say they do not use a particular product if you ask them. I called about Pecards and they deny using it and were resentfull of claims that they did use it.
Perhaps the Smithsonian once made an order to this Co. That's possible. I have ordered many such products but after use or testing I do not use them.
I would be interested to know what you find out! Jerry Burney

quote:

So in other word....there is nothing that has any REAL data to prove or disprove any restoration prodcut really works w/o destroying your items over time? Maybe we should just leave it alone? If it is in nice shape after 60 or 70 years...... leave it be.

This is my advice exactly...Jerry Burney

Engineers such as myself like data. However since there is no data then the only way to prove or disprove is testing. This gets rid of the opinions/hearsay and science takes over. This would be great project for a microbiologist and Chemical engineer team!

From now on.......as John Lennon says "let it be"

I just "Googled" Connelly's and found they've changed the name --
Connolly’s Hide Care Leather Conditioner formerly called Hide Food, before the FDA caught wind of it being called food)
I have an A2 Jacket that needs "treatments" ..this sounds like just the product. Thanks

One thing I must caution veryone about who uses Connoly's is that it has a distallate mixed into it..Probably an alchohol to thin it or help with evaporation and drying. It will seperate when left on the shelf and must be shaken or stirred to reintroduce it to the mix. Personally, when it does this, I pour it off. If you dip a toothbrush into Connoly's and get some seperated distallate it will discolor light colored leather. Make sure it is mixed well. Jerry Burney

Jerry
Thanks for all the info.

-
Jerry-
I understand that the Leatherique products are water-based not oil-based. This includes the Rejuvenator , Pristine Clean, and all of their leather dyes.
Had very good results for years including vintage leather holsters. I agree that oil based products can be damaging to old leather. I stay away from Lexol products as well.