UBB.threads
Posted By: Gaspare Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/10/2014 04:39 AM
I started collecting Nazi regalia in the mid 1970s. After a few years I had all sorts of stuff,,helmets, daggers/bayos, medals/badges. A few jackets, a few hats and caps, a little bit of everything.
Some of the pieces I had from the many members of my family that were in the war,,their war booty,' war souvenirs'. Some bought, some traded. Things were different back then. IF you were collecting daggers and wanted a Army,you'd get the nicest one possible with the nicest of hangers. There was no collecting by maker, by handle color etc. Same with a medal,,You'd want a iron cross, you'd get the best condition one you could afford. Not by LDO number, maker stamp etc.

Anyway most my early collection was gone a few times, Motorcycles, women, 'substances',etc blush. In the mid 80s I decide to 'specialize' in the things I really liked. 3rd reich Jewelry, Foreign Volunteer items, Holocaust, ID tags/Worker IDs.
Well between Hurricane Irene and SuperStorm Sandy I lost 99% of my collection. frown

Well over the years I'd pick up a weird thing here, a weird thing there. I'd toss them in a crate in my attic. And of all my stuff they of course survived the waters up there.
This stuff one of my Uncles one time called 'Tools of the Trade'.. So here they are. Hope you guys enjoy the stuff,,most old, 1920s, 40s,60s..
I have more [I store them now in a old Violin case!] so heres a small taste..

The leather covered 'billy' has a ball bearing lanyard hole!

Attached picture 026a.jpg
Attached picture 002.JPG
Attached picture 011.JPG
Attached picture 003.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/10/2014 04:42 AM
,,the straight razor was my grandfathers.. The come-a-long and spring cosh are Nazi and family bringbacks..

Attached picture 004.JPG
Attached picture 008.JPG
Attached picture 007.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/10/2014 04:46 AM
,,the 'straight' set of knuckles are my favorite style,,the black jack a real oldie,,probably 20s [froma old buddy in AZ wink.],,the stocky/stubby billy is a type of hardwood,,its like a rock yet has a split in it, hopefully not from a head!

Attached picture 006.JPG
Attached picture 005.JPG
Attached picture 024.JPG
Attached picture 010.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/10/2014 04:53 AM
I got about 10 knuckles made from all sorts of different materials. This one in photo I just got this past MAX and is my first real brass ones!
Got a bunch of the old blackjacks also. They are getting real hard to find. Hey, anyone with a line on any of this type stuff give me a shout and maybe we can work something out...,Thanks , G.

Attached picture 025a.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/10/2014 11:43 AM
Great collection, G! Yeah, I'm seeing some shawshank redemption era stuff in here, nice! I love that it's stored in a violin case... touché!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/31/2015 04:58 AM
This was hand painted on the top of some sort of box lid..
Love this!

Attached picture LTN.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/31/2015 05:36 AM
Heck yeah! Looks like something one William Cutting (aka "Bill the Butcher") might have rolling around there in the back of his shop in 5 points! If it were Daniel day lewis, I see it holding something ironic like a cutaway bible with a pistol in it !!
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/31/2015 05:39 AM
What a great collection, some amazing items!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/01/2015 06:47 AM
old catalog ads:

Attached picture cuffs.jpg
Attached picture billys2.jpg
Attached picture billys3.jpg
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/01/2015 04:05 PM
As a retired policeman I have collected many old tools of the trade myself over the years. These are mostly "working" nightsticks and billy clubs. Don't forget there were also fancy daysticks in the US made in coco-bolo or other exotic woods. These mostly had tassels to distinguish rank and are still used as presentation pieces in some departments today. No longer carried by most departments they have been replaced with other more modern batons and impact weapons made of synthetic materials. When I first started we could carry leather slappers and billies but no longer as time went on.

When it quits snowing I will take a couple of pix.




Attached picture US police frock coat.JPG
Attached picture US police frock coat back.JPG
Attached picture US police round belt buckle.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/02/2015 03:42 AM
Man! that belt is something!! Whats on the star?
Oh yes please,,when you have the time any tools of the trade I'd love to see them!
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/04/2015 05:21 PM
Gaspare,

I have an intermission in the snow it seems so here are some photos.

A couple of fancy cherry wood day-sticks from the turn of the century. The thick stick with a gold tassel is from the Kansas City Mo. Police Department and is only some 20-30 years old. These sticks have the officer's name engraved on them. The glass billy has an interesting story behind it. These were made with hard candies in them and were sold to children. They seemingly were also used by policemen to carry a bit of liquor on their long nightly tours. Supposedly their Sergeants would feel, or see, the shape in the nightstick pockets on their pant legs and assume it was a regular billy club. Very clever these old cops. wink

Attached picture club old.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture club red tassel.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture club KC.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture club glass.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture club tear gas.jpeg.JPG
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/04/2015 05:30 PM
I love the idea of a candy filled billy club, it's ironic but also probably helped teach kids that cops aren't here to beat you up, but rather to help protect the community. Good message in 2015.
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/05/2015 03:03 PM
Yep, the glass billy is a neat one that is very hard to find. The tear gas billy was patented in 1923. This is also a difficult one to find.

Here are a few more working clubs and another day stick to show the size differences. Notice the acorn carving on the butt of the large day stick with tassel. These balls were used as impact weapons. Drawn quickly from the belt the ball could be driven into the solar plexis to knock the air out of a miscreant. The unique woven stick has a lead ball at the end and there are a couple of other leather covered clubs to be seen.

Attached picture clubs large small.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture club woven.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture clubs leather.jpeg.JPG
Attached picture clubs med.jpeg.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/07/2015 05:50 AM
Orpo,, thanks so much for showing all this,,what a treat..
Man that tear gas one!,excellent!
In the right hands any of these can do devastating damage to someone!

They made a single hand cuff,,that also could be turned into a 2 knuckle hitter [old]. Could have grabbed one a couple years ago. Could of, would of, really should of!! The piece sound familiar to anyone? maybe have one to show?
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 02/07/2015 05:55 AM
,,,,OH man!,,,just remembered I might have a photo of one on another drive... Found it!
So this is a knuckle hitter, and some sort of thumb cuff [?]

Attached picture $(KGrHqRHJFcFF2,CLgTwBRj(fn(pw!~~60_3.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 05/01/2015 12:50 AM
I have a extra that I put in the for sale section forum.,,thought I'd put the photos up here before I delete them..

This one is a very well made one. Pretty sure a 1960s example.. Strong black leather stitched well, the strap securely attached..
These are way better than a black jack.. With some practice you can learn to knock someone out very quickly with little effort! Used to hit on its side,,can easily break a bone.. Back in the old days some Police had a special side pocket in their pants for this tool..

Attached picture 1.JPG
Attached picture 3.JPG
Attached picture 2.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 05/08/2015 05:10 AM
,,,,,a quickie updated photo... Got to get a bigger/better display case!

Attached picture zzzz.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 05/08/2015 11:00 AM
Cool tools!
Posted By: mrfabulous Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/06/2015 10:29 PM
Vee have vays of making you talk!!!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/07/2015 01:57 AM
ha ha you got it Mr F.!!

I have a new piece I picked up.. At the MAX of all places too! I've been wanting one of these a long time. Usually they are in such bad condition,,or will not function.. This near perfect. All the workings are fine and functions perfectly,,just missing some small bits of plaiting.

Attached picture 011.JPG
Attached picture 012.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/07/2015 02:00 AM
open,,,and closed [ouch!]... When closed,,with just a flick of your wrist the right way and anyone that has their wrist clamped will be on their knees!

Attached picture 015.JPG
Attached picture 014.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/24/2015 07:13 PM
guys,,maybe the ultimate 'tool of the trade'...

I guess after you beat the ******** out of the guy you can shoot him! whistle

Attached picture retro_weapons_01.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/24/2015 08:31 PM
The centennial eh? Pretty intimidating - I wonder what it meant by centennial ? French Revolution? Second empire? Napoleon crowns himself / first empire?
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/26/2015 03:27 AM
man, here's another one..

With this thing there's no need for an enforcer to carry his knucks and a heater..

Plus maybe this thing has no rifleing [?] so it could be a little harder to trace/match..

All kidding [?] aside,,wonder what the value is on one of these things!

Attached picture retro_weapons_05.jpg
Attached picture retro_weapons_06.jpg
Attached picture retro_weapons_10.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/26/2015 01:21 PM
Hmmm that's a good question- maybe there's a small arms guy on the forum who has a good idea- we know Rick Harrison will give you 45 cents for it lol .,. Thanks for the closer picture it's the French Revolution/ American constitution centennial- both a big deal in France...g did u pick up this piece?
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/27/2015 07:32 AM
I wish Mike... I am sure this is a small fortune [a few thousand].!!
Anybody home here?!?,,does anyone maybe have one of these or could tell us a accurate value?
Posted By: Vern Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/27/2015 01:21 PM
Saw one sold on a British auction site for 895 pounds, mint in the box with original ammo.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/28/2015 06:54 AM
So somewhere in the $1200. to $1500. range.. Actually, not to bad! , Thanks Vern....
Posted By: Vern Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/28/2015 01:57 PM
Glad to help wink
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/09/2016 04:11 PM
Here is an old nickeled .38 Colt Police revolver and restraint. The "nipper" is patent dated Aug. 10, 1869.

Also, a few early police whistles for your enjoyment.

Attached picture Colt Pol pistol.JPG
Attached picture Whistle Mun Pol NY.JPG
Attached picture Whistle Mun Pol USA.JPG
Attached picture Whistle Metropolitan SA French.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/11/2016 02:59 AM
Wow!,,Municipal Police of NY.! What would be the date on that?

Is the pistol an issue item?

Real nice nipper!
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/13/2016 04:02 PM
The whistles are from around the turn of the century... 19th Century that is. The S.A. French marked whistle is shown in his late 1800s catalog of police equipment.

The Colt revolver is not property marked but is probably a private purchase.
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/13/2016 07:01 PM
Nice collectables.
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/13/2016 08:00 PM
No doubt! G, do u have pics of those come-alongs u have? I think I recall u having a few and all very cool worth posting again with some history (I think many ppl don't know what they are!)
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/14/2016 04:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Byzanti
No doubt! G, do u have pics of those come-alongs u have? I think I recall u having a few and all very cool worth posting again with some history (I think many ppl don't know what they are!)


I do have some other restraints and come-alongs but I will have to look for the pictures.

In the meantime, here are some neat color police postcards from around the turn of the century. Some great shots of various US police uniforms and equipment from the late 1800s.

Attached picture PC St Louis Police.JPG
Attached picture PC Police vehicle.JPG
Attached picture PC Chicago Police parage.JPG
Attached picture PC Cinn Mounted Police.JPG
Attached picture PC Indian Police.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/15/2016 03:58 PM
yeah! nice PCs!!..

I saw a old NYC police uniform. The pants has a 3 inch wide pocket, about 10 in long.. I asked what it was for??,,for a black jack!!
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/16/2016 04:16 PM
Here are a few shots of some old 1800s period restraints. Also, what display would be complete without a brass knuckle persuader?



Attached picture Handcuffs.JPG
Attached picture Handcuff patent.JPG
Attached picture Chain come along.JPG
Attached picture Chain come along patent.JPG
Attached picture Brass knuckles.JPG
Posted By: ORPO Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/16/2016 04:19 PM
A better shot of the nippers and patent date.

Attached picture Nipper.JPG
Attached picture Nipper patent.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/21/2016 07:55 AM
ORPO.,, WOW what a treat!

That leather holder for the come a longs is a first for me..

Some really nice stuff you got there,,thanks for posting!
Posted By: kingtiger Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 01/30/2016 12:23 AM
Good subject. Houston Coates had some choice stuff like the cuffs and other police items at the Tn. Military Show last Thanksgiving. A really nice Kripo disc.
I bought a beautiful Japanese officer sword with original wooden scabbard, covered in leather for military use from Houston at the show.


Mark
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/18/2016 03:54 AM
Here's a couple tough customers.... Btw both are for sale or trade pm please if interested!

Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/18/2016 04:13 AM
Mike,
,the tonfa wood?
,and the club a hard rubber?? What is the clubs length?
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/18/2016 04:27 AM
The tonfa is a monadnock p-24 s side handled baton, 24 inches in length... Made of a hard black molded plastic or rubber- about 3-3.5 lb I'd guess.., the club is a deep blue hard composite either a plastic or a rubber, with a black rubber washer- prob 4 lb or so, original leather carrying strap with it/ about 20 inches. These batons have seen real use!
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/25/2016 02:02 AM
Love this one- about 10 inches I'd guess... Nice old wooden tire thumper... Also posting for sale soon! Heavy, lead filled baton with original carrying strap.., prob about 3.5-4 lb at least. It's a shot caller that's for sure!!!

Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/25/2016 11:18 AM
Oh man! Forgot to mention the come-alongs! Nice old set..

Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/25/2016 09:01 PM
nice Mike!! Yeah that sure looks like it was drilled out, filled [prob with lead] and a wood plug in it...
You know I hear all the time,,'those are for fish' , 'Those are for tires'..
Tire and fish clubs usually a bit longer..
- any markings on the club or the come-a-long?
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/26/2016 12:30 PM
Markings? Well I'm not sure it's got something under the lacquer but I can't make it out- and like a North Star like pattern on the "pommel".., on the shaft is red and black markings maybe it was someone's name?

Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/26/2016 01:32 PM
pretty sure the marks at the end is from the wood lathe chuck that held it..
That side peg is interesting. Does it go thru to other side?

Are the handles of the c-a-l aluminum or steel?
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/26/2016 02:30 PM
Yeah I couldn't get a good shot of the markings man regardless they were pretty worn.. Yep the other side has the "peg" as well- looks like same color material (wood putty?) as top and bottom,.,come a longs I will pull out and check I never really looked! Just thought they were cool and tossed them in the box lol!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/27/2016 04:26 AM
wonder what the side plug is for?

The handle material will help you date them. IF aluminum they are most likely postwar.
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/27/2016 09:45 PM
No idea on the side plugs- maybe more weight added? It's heavy as heck. I looked at the come a longs I think it's steel or another metal- too heavy for aluminum- but maybe something else? Didn't see any clear markings but will look again!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/28/2016 03:09 AM
try a magnet.........
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/28/2016 03:33 AM
Ahh of course! Yes will do-
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/25/2016 05:56 AM
had a forum member contact me out of the blue and ask if I'd be interested in a 'paperweight'! grin

Of course I was and we did a interesting trade for a 'Sapper Glove' and a beautiful old Aluminum knuckles:

Attached picture 007.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/25/2016 05:58 AM
they are a nice size and fit even my big hands!

Coming at ya!

Attached picture 010.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/25/2016 06:03 AM
Also,, from my collection but haven't shown until now..

These are steel knuckles. They were ground / pick up in Germany in 1946... Don't know if they are Allied or Axis.

Attached picture 012.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/25/2016 06:05 AM
little beat up, but they have character!
Nice knucks, good size and still can get the work done..

Attached picture 014.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/27/2016 05:14 AM
I received this piece in a trade..

Not sure of time period. It is only the right one. I've heard that sometimes only one was issued. This could be calfs skin or deers. Very soft, smooth, yet strong. Called a 'Sappers' glove. From what I can gather this is pretty old. Maybe WW1, or 20s,,or [?]
anyway, enjoy the photos.

Attached picture 003.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/27/2016 05:17 AM
Not sure what is sewn in to the knuckle area,,maybe lead powder, or steel filings.

Attached picture 001.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/27/2016 05:19 AM
This is not the thing you want to get hit in the face with!

Attached picture 004.JPG
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/27/2016 10:55 AM
Ain't that the truth! I would have guessed it for interrogation but I don't think that after a hit or two with this u can say much or are even conscious! Body shots would also be devestating- just as lethal in certain areas! Where did u find this G?
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/28/2016 04:17 AM
Byz.,,, A forum member noticed this topic and contacted me to see if I would be interested in the Glove and the Aluminum Knuckles!
A little cash, some trade items and we were both happy..
Posted By: Duzig Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/30/2016 07:22 PM
Hello,
Here's an item I picked up a number of years ago. The girl I got it from said it was her grandfather's who had been a policeman. Don't know anything about it other than that. I would think it's from the 30's or 40's but really have no idea. I also have a nightstick or two somewhere around here. The one item I wish I still had but it's been lost to the ages was a small black hard rubber truncheon which if I remember correctly had NYPD markings on it. I had gotten it from one of my Uncles years ago.
thanks for looking
Duzig(Bill)

Attached picture Dsci1774.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/30/2016 09:09 PM
Nice piece bill! Is it weighted (leaded/heavy?)
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 09/30/2016 11:49 PM

- yeah that's a really nice one! , and in good condition too..

What is the length on it?
Posted By: Duzig Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/01/2016 08:24 PM
Hello Byzanti and Gaspare,
It is weighted. Almost feels like the lower part of it is spring and the top is weighted. I paid five dollars for it a number of years ago. Yes it looks like it was never used. It is about 8 1/2 inches long. Am I correct in thinking that it might be from the 30's or 40's? Thanks again for your comments and info.
Bill
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/01/2016 08:56 PM
Gaspare knows more than me about these, we're just both avid "tools" enthusiasts- but being unused is totally possible, and the leather is in great condition for the age- sure 30s or 40s imo is definitely possible, they just stopped making and using them later, but later isn't unheard of.... that being said I've seen near mint pieces from the 20s that look almost like this, heck we were looking at a spiked prison baton from the 19th century U.K. Last week with engraving and everything, it was in great shape so I think that this could have easily stood up to some years these were built for endurance and strength they aren't going to fall to pieces just like that but then let's see what G says but I like it bill
Nice piece man
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 03:24 AM
you know its weird,,,on ebay you can't sell knuckles,,,but' you can sell these!..
Bill,,that was a great price even back then.. You can pull up 'Vintage leather Blackjack' on eBay and you'd be surprised what these things can go for sometimes..

The style of these really haven't changed,,you'll see adverts! But,there is another completely different pattern. The flat version,,or 'Sap'..

Bill heres an old advert that shows some the same as yours. No date here but IF I remember right its from the 30s at least,,probably teens..

Attached picture billys2.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 03:44 AM
Here;s an old ad showing the flat and round together..

Attached picture club (2).jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 04:17 AM
the flats are shown at the beginning of the topic too but figured I'd throw another on up..

I've seen some police uniforms that had a thin, narrow pocket made in to their pants either at the side of leg just right above the knee or one higher up by waist..

I spoke to a Policeman at the MAX . He said he was on a Texas police force and he was issued a flat one in the 60s! He said he loved it and it had hit many a elbow, shoulder, and head with his! It was a nice long, slim, flat one. I bought the story and the jack! wink

Attached picture ZZZZZZZflat2.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 04:53 AM
I was just checking.. Looking at the ad I posted last page one of the rubber jacks have imprinted on it 'Metropolitan Police'!

I checked and the adverts are from the late 1800s!

So really if the blackjacks we own have been kept in good condition we really don't know what year they were made/from! Their styling really hasn't changed in over 100 years!

[cool knucks,,on my most wanted list!]

Attached picture 03d33d9fb83f98467dc1f3aa708a7295.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 05:32 AM
Quite possibly the coolest set of knuckles I've ever seen- that's straight happy jack Mulraney gangs of New York right there dead to the year. Bet u those were issued the summer after the draft riots, and because of them!
Posted By: Duzig Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 08:16 PM
Hello
Byzanti, thanks for your info. The girl I got if from was around my age so I figured her grandfather would have been around the same age and era as mine so the 30's or 40's does make sense. That spiked prison baton sounds interesting, and deadly. Any pictures of that piece? Gaspare, thanks for those pictures and info. Mine does indeed look like the one's you show. Guess I did pretty good paying 5.00 bucks for it maybe 20 years ago or so. With the way laws are today a policeman would be in deep trouble if he used one of these on a suspect I bet eh.
Very interesting items you guys have, I think I'm gonna start keeping my eyes out for more items like these. Thanks again for all your help and knowledge. It is appreciated!
Bill
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/02/2016 10:15 PM
I'll try to find those pix bill- and yes I do agree these are not standard issue today! The 19th century policing and fire fighting man that was rough work low pay (those things haven't really changed that much!) police and fire had to fight just to make it- not just the criminal element but other police depts and fire squads! NY had horrible overlap and mismanagement really just a mess of inefficient and ineffective systems by the mid 19th century- NY city cops fought the NY metro and borough police in all out brawls sometimes!! Fire squads were more like gangs in a lot of ways! generally speaking the police were used to just control the poor and working classes of the city- the idea of justice for the common man wasn't thru the police but maybe thru a gang or of course the mafia! Police work was for the tough guys who could handle the low pay etc- often newer immigrants that were kept out of other professions and opportunities! Andy militarynut also knows a lot abt ny policing too he identified an early leather police pistol belt slide that held maybe 20 bullets I think by just the contractors name! I think it was rosenblum but I forgot!
Posted By: Duzig Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 10/03/2016 05:55 PM
Byzanti,
Would love to see those pics & thanks again for that information. I have seen a couple of documentaries on the history channel about that era and as you say, the NY police were fighting other police etc. If my memory serves me correct I thought I heard on one of these shows that out of the gangs came the fire departments more or less. Interesting period in history for sure. Lots of interesting history in New York.
thanks again
Bill
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/03/2016 03:34 PM
was by my 'safe house'.. Had this case a long time and have had a bunch of different things in it...

Attached picture ZZZZcase2.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/03/2016 03:36 PM
I know your all expecting a Tommygun,,,but they are a little scarce here in NY!! These,,guess they have some uses whistle

Attached picture ZZZZcase.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/03/2016 04:24 PM
Nice meathook
Posted By: Redsled Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/03/2016 05:05 PM
Cool smile
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/04/2017 08:38 PM
While researching fighting rings, I stumbled across the "Apache" street gangs of Paris. During the Belle Époque (later 19th century) they used many "tools of the trade" (as pictured below) when ambushing their prey, the wealthy Parisians of the period.... a well to do man or woman would be well advised to carry a sword cane, a long/sharp hatpin, or perhaps a small and concealable pistol to defend themselves should they find one of these fellows in a back alley off of the boulevard... pronounced "Ah- PASH", these "Apaches" were so named after the antagonists of a James Fennimore Cooper novel of the period... they had impressive sets of combination gun/knives, brass knuckles, and of course some knuckledusters, which I will post in the ring forum. Here is a period poster advising the well to do of the gang members favorite tools of the trade (btw- if any one can find me this poster of the period... I will buy it!!) courtesy of englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com, its entitled "How they Kill You" ...

Attached picture IMG_6752.JPG
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/04/2017 08:40 PM
Also for a bit of an eye opener- google "danse Apache" and see what comes up- this was a popular tandem dance inspired by the "Apache" of the Parisian back alleys...
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/07/2017 03:30 PM
Mike,,,that IS one cool poster.. I'd love one too,,bet they are super hard to find and expensive!
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 05:37 AM
just saw a pretty cool old advert for a TOTT:

Attached picture zzzba00374a13b3cfd8286ed6782bc1854e--vintage-advertisements-vintage-ads.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 05:41 AM
and this.. Don't know what to say about this,,other than,,,every guy should have one! grin wink

Attached picture zzzzl_fullxfull.388181130_ndrm.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 01:43 PM
New definition of multi tool right there
Posted By: Dave Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 03:17 PM
Someone buggered up a valuable knife if that grip is real.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 11:28 PM
they look to new to be authentic....


Anyone reading,,, I'm looking for these type for my collection.. Anyone with that would want to move them send me a email...,G.

Attached picture zz272.jpg
Attached picture zzDSCN3172b.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/13/2017 11:29 PM
and of course would love to have these,,,and, the NYC type shown previously...

Attached picture zzz48233035.jpg
Posted By: cog-hammer Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/14/2017 09:31 PM
about 18 years ago ahh maybe like 17 it was y2k time.yahoo had a old school forum called the "brass knuckles collector club or forum" yahoo shut down the bulletin board type forums.far as i know. i stopped getting email updates but not sure when at.least 10 years ago for sure i bet even longer. some guys on that forum would cast runs of them and sell them. when i collected WWI stuff i scored a set of cast iron knucks on a buy along with some civil war encampment items from a family or rather the kid who was cashing out. knucks seem to sell fast.
Bret Van Sant
Posted By: cog-hammer Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/14/2017 09:41 PM
hope this works im bad at resizing

Attached picture rsz_20171114_143333.jpg
Posted By: cog-hammer Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/14/2017 09:43 PM
sorry for the sucky pic the skylight really makes it extra bright. those are the cast iron knucks
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/15/2017 03:51 PM
great shot! Those were cast from a old pair. They came out nice..

They reproduce the real old/espensive ones.. A collector told me that the originals fit the hand good,,and the copies and copies of copies usually are small and forget them fitting even a med large size hand..

Now something like these would be cool too!

Attached picture zztumblr_n93fruJA7P1rwjpnyo1_500.jpg
Attached picture zzOWDR-Knuckle-Duster-Gun-04.jpg
Posted By: Dave Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/15/2017 08:34 PM
Gaspare,

Cool until you hit some dude and the pistol part went off by itself.
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 08:01 PM


Attached picture 169AB727-5FE6-4E87-A07C-7C34401FAE77.jpeg
Attached picture 7DF6178D-273A-4EC4-A990-5E1A5A8B4C71.jpeg
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 08:04 PM
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 08:52 PM
Nice switchblades
6 inch blade thats not for shaving
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 09:05 PM
Zoot suits were made for pocketing things like this
Might call it an assassins knife
But it is known as a filero
Its a shank thats intended as an easy conceal
But 12 inch blade very very sharp
A close contact quick strike under the solar plexus or rib cage pierces the heart
Instant death
Very traditional blade with bone or longhorn grip plates
Stylistically engraved with in this case a saying in Spanish
Soy chiquito pero cabron
Means Im small but Im a MFer or the like
A hole etc
Lovely engraving of a grape vine around the words too

Attached picture BA7028FD-902E-4913-87D7-FF9665E5ADD7.jpeg
Attached picture 8E57E759-DE55-483C-A8BC-98FBE0A5776A.jpeg
Attached picture 5DF5D8DE-169D-4280-AC26-D85ED06F4223.jpeg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 11:09 PM
Mike,,,,that will do some damage for sure.. I'd say taking that out would make someone pay up right quick!!


Steven C. Wow!! yeah that top one is more like a short sword! I see a switch blade occasionally but they are Asian junk.
U.S. and Italian mades are usually pretty good quality.. That stag handle looks really nice!
Thanks for showing........
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/19/2017 11:38 PM


Attached picture D90FEFE6-85D4-47ED-B8E1-83E9864BD65C.jpeg
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/20/2017 04:12 PM
Here is a switchblade by Rufin Johnson in the USA. It is called Scorpion. One of the most serious knives I have ever seen.

Attached picture 261 Sticker (3).JPG
Attached picture 261 Sticker (1).JPG
Attached picture 261 Sticker (2).JPG
Attached picture 261 Sticker.JPG
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/20/2017 04:13 PM
Here is the Polish knock off. A little shorter.

Attached picture 262 Polish (1).JPG
Attached picture 262 Polish (2).JPG
Attached picture 262 Polish (3).JPG
Attached picture 262 Polish (4).JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/21/2017 12:03 AM
nice old knuckes back there!!


Jim,,WOW,,,going to have to check one of those out!! wink
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/21/2017 06:46 PM
Just a FYI

Attached picture 18311B66-D035-4FF0-99B4-D779B11B83D7.jpeg
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/21/2017 06:49 PM
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/21/2017 07:47 PM
I actually had two of the Polish at one time but gave one to a friend. These are knives that you have to train with just to open them without either cutting yourself or having the knife jump out of your hand.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/22/2017 05:46 PM
Hope you get straightened out soon Steve..

Jim, can they go 'off' in your pocket??
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/22/2017 06:40 PM
No, the spring is too strong for that. At least I never had that problem and I carried it for about 5 years in one pocket or another. It is long. To open it you have to hold it very firmly along the length and when you hit the button it wants to jump out of your hand. Therefore the nickname "sticker" as it was prone to jump out of your hand and stick someone. It would also pinch your hand if you held it wrong. But after a few tries it was quite simple and effective.
Posted By: Steven C Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/14/2017 07:47 PM
Nice stuff posted guys

Being able to post looks hit and miss sometimes. Well see how it goes
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/01/2018 02:42 AM
-

some mean looking Knucks shown here,,,,,Ouch! crazy sleep

Oh yeah,, Jim W.,,,on the US Scorpion,,, How was the lock [or was there] once it was open?

Attached picture Weapons.JPG
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/02/2018 02:18 PM
If you look at the last photo, in the bottom right hand of both knives you see a little nob sticking out. When the knife is open, It is locked in place by that long piece the nob is attached to and to release the blade you pull up the nob. this is one of the tightest and efficient switch blades I have seen.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/04/2018 03:50 AM
Jim,, I clearly see on your knife,,,and the spelling .. Yet when I do any search anywhere,,they spell it with 2 Fs!!! I put in the spelling on your knife and the model [ Scorpion ] and I get nothing..

Maybe its a knife of bygone years.. A collectors item.. Made no more, and those that have them are very lucky indeed to have them.!
Posted By: Jim W Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 06/06/2018 03:37 PM
I bought this in Warsaw at the open market sometime around 1996. So the item had been in Poland for some time. After all, no one brings in an item like this to Poland to sell for minimal amounts at the open market. I always assumed it was from around WWII. However, with the spelling of Rufin Jonson instead of Ruffin Johnson, I am wondering if this is some type of Russian production using a fake maker. Still, it is the only one I have ever seen.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 08/11/2018 04:59 AM
Cool advert.. Can't get it any bigger/clearer.. Like that fist piece at top!

Attached picture zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz320251165v5_480x480_Front.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/24/2018 03:47 AM
,, My old case got lost in the packing about a year or 2 ago.. just found it a few days ago unpacking! Everything the same , fine.. in the front covered box there is a nice throwing star,, a old straight razor etc.

Attached picture ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZoutput (6).jpg
Attached picture ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZoutput (5).jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 11/24/2018 04:12 AM
Wow, was just checking.... These type pieces are going for a all time high.. Like antique brass knuckles , also have been at their highest ever prices..

You know the prices are up when something simple like this is bringing in close to $100.!

Attached picture ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZbj.jpg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 04/19/2019 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by Mike (aka Byzanti)
Also for a bit of an eye opener- google "danse Apache" and see what comes up- this was a popular tandem dance inspired by the "Apache" of the Parisian back alleys...


Just to bring this back up, found some great images of these gangsters showing off their tattoos in French prisons..

Attached picture 51A62C56-F629-466E-8817-25F54112D1CB.jpeg
Attached picture 6191F82F-8679-4664-9973-47156D03FB11.jpeg
Attached picture A9C256B2-C5AE-4B23-B541-392374DA52FB.jpeg
Attached picture 712DA145-3883-42EB-814C-C8CC22DF7EEA.jpeg
Attached picture EC0E6578-1089-45CD-99AA-028A708F3379.jpeg
Posted By: Mike (aka Byzanti) Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 04/19/2019 03:11 AM
I would bet some of these men based on the nature of their tattoos were members of the French military?s penal battalions, called bat d?af.
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 12/18/2020 02:20 AM
from a 1935 catalog: [sorry poor images]

Considering the maker I thought the switchblade was expensive,,,but then I saw , its for a dozen!!

the .25 is nice, small, perfect for behind the ear shots.... The tiny 'jeweled' .22 piece even comes with pearl grips if wanted,for the price of a couple drinks back then!

Attached picture BJ4.jpg
Attached picture BJ3.jpg
Attached picture BJ2.jpg
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 04/13/2023 02:39 AM
my current riker, have a few more pieces in different displays:

Always looking for similar pieces,will buy or trade for nazi items:

Attached picture DSCN5300.JPG
Posted By: Gaspare Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 08/19/2023 03:30 PM
last year at the MAX I saw something I should have gotten!. . This year the good Lord willing it will be there again and I'll get it.. For now I won't say what it was but the show is getting closer by the week!

- * guys you have any similar items, whether Police or not please post them here! Thanks............
Posted By: Dave Re: Tools of the Trade [?] - 08/19/2023 06:03 PM
There's always some strange stuff at the big shows smile
© Your new forums