UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum Presentation Sword to RK Winner

Selling it is !

I think that if Fred Stephens were to update Reproduction ? Recognition ! it would sell very quickly.

This topic has indeed been interesting and an education. I wonder if we are finished ?

Dave

Hey, Ron Weinand,

I took a couple of hits from you, early on. But it is OK, I don't bear grudges - well, not too much.

Craig is out of the R?R! book. He told me so last week. So I will leave it to him announce what his next publishing venture will be.

I will carry on with my research and preparation for Reproduction? Recognition!. I know that it seems that I take a long time with these projects - but hey, fellahs, Rome wasn't built in a day - but then Ron Weinand wasn't in on that job! (Only kidding, Ronnie, I know that you know just how long it takes to do a job properly).

Frederick J. Stephens

Hey Freddy,
As you and I well know, a lot of people CLAIM that anybody can write a book on German collectibles-its easy right?? So many want to talk the talk, but can't seem to walk the walk.
IF it was that easy, everybody would do it.
Tom Johnson had to practically beat on me to do the first book on NPEA Daggers and he was right, once you have had some success, it gets into your blood and you move ahead.
My first book, "German Helmets 1933 - 1945", has been reprinted 8 times and is also available in Polish-who would have ever thought?
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I don�t think that anyone would disagree that over the years �Reproduction? Recognition!� has already saved collectors millions of dollars. Fakes are a serious problem confronting the collector community, and an updated book is needed and should be very well received by collectors. FP

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fred Prinz (aka "Frogprince"):
I don�t think that anyone would disagree that over the years �Reproduction? Recognition!� has already saved collectors millions of dollars.

It certainly saved my nake on an E.Pack full Rohm dagger several years ago.

I still refer to my copy of Reproduction Recognition but I agree an update is long overdue. I certainly hope that Craig will forward the photos to Fred that I let him take of the repro examples I acquired when I purchased them as part of a complete collection years ago.

I also think something else needs to be said here:
"An accountability number (from 0 to 200) is stamped on the bottom of the lower crossguard." "Only two hundred of these daggers were awarded and each is serial numbered on the bottom of the lower crossguard."
The two statements appear on Page 54 of Collecting The Edged Weapons Of The Third Reich Volume 1 by Tom Johnson published in 1975 and of course are in reference to to SS daggers with the Himmler etch.
We of course now know these statements to be patently false. I'm not citing this to belittle Tom in any way and I have a great deal of respect for him as an author and a person.
This is the same volume that the sword that's been under discussion is pictured sans scabbard.I am wondering if this sword were to be examined by some of the recognized experts in this hobby if additional information about it might be forthcoming based upon what is known today.
I would suggest that the current owner consider bring the sword to this years MAX for just that type of examination. I did this myself a few years back with a dagger that had a non-typical makers logo on it. It was clobbered by a couple of "experts" right here on GDC when I posted it for comments. Many of the experts we all know and respect personally examined it at the MAX and pronounced it a valid dagger and logo.
Jim

Jim, There is no question that a hands on evaluation beats one via Internet. And a lot has to do with the actual expertise of those doing the evaluation. I remember a show where two rifle collectors were toe to toe in an argument over a rifle. They were supposed to be among the top collectors in the U.S. My point being is that for that particular rifle both could not be right - and one had to be mistaken. The dispute was resolved when some others stepped in, and eventually a consensus was reached on the proper configuration for the rifle in question.

What was unusual about the MAX Luftwaffe dagger was that it was the result of a first hand examination where Craig declared the dagger to be a fake. It was not via the Internet. If he later changed his mind that could happen to any of us. But what does it say about the quality of fakes in the marketplace?? Here is a well traveled collector who can�t determine a fake from an original in his first look. If somebody with his track record has significant problems. What are ordinary/average collectors supposed to do??

The photographs he took of your blades are his property. But I sincerely hope that he follows your wishes. And gives them to FJ Stephens so that we can all benefit from seeing what is out there waiting to trip us up.

And I like the idea of the widest possible circle of individuals specializing in Third Reich artifacts looking at whatever Rob might wish to have examined first hand. When you took your dagger to the MAX it gave you peace of mind. I would imagine that after all this discussion he could use a little peace of mind as well. Regards, FP

I have removed replies by Wagner and Johnny V. that were insults and contributed nothing whatsoever to the discussion.

Gents, please, if you have some info to contribute please post it but stay away from posts calculated to pointedly insult people.

Dave

It was a "JOKE" Dave.
You may think it contributed "nothing whatsoever" to the forum but with the mood of GDC recently, I thought we all could use a laugh.

Don't close the drapes on all the sunshine Dave, we all could use a little ray of fun now and then... and it's getting pretty dark in here...

Oh, and if you want a "contribution" from me about the sword, here it is: I DON'T KNOW!
If I knew it was good OR bad I would say so! But I don't so I thought we could all use a little giggle.

PS- My post was NOT "calculated to pointed to insult" anyone! I can provide references of all of my highschool math teachers who will attest to the fact that I cannot reliably calculate ANYTHING!!!
That was another joke, this time at my expense.... should I censor myself?
I am just glad to see that everyone is thoroughly enjoying this hobby and not taking things too seriously... afterall, that would take all the FUN out of it, right???

" I DON'T KNOW" -that says volumes about this whole thread in just three little words-and here are three more--We never will.

Houston, You may be correct, and we may never know. But that does not mean that someone in the future might not be able to figure out the truth. Unless the items are destroyed they will remain the best evidence of what it is that they really are. If they are not destroyed and stay in a collection for 50 years it might be 50 years before anyone gets a good look. But it will eventually happen.

The two swords from the collection I mentioned some pages back were discovered by me to have been tampered with. I don�t think that the owner knew. And I remember not that long ago another presentation sword on a different forum where the inscription gave away its status as a fake. Which very quickly disappeared from public view once it was exposed.

As long as these items stay out of circulation it�s a reasonably safe bet that any additional substantial hard evidence will be lacking - except of course things like the construction and very obvious use of a 1st model dagger. As to the weight to be assigned to the circumstantial and other evidence. That is up to the readers who can draw their own conclusions. FP

In the real world most of us don't know. But we look at the evidence presented and the person behind it and we take a position upon where we feel the "weight" of the evidence lays. Now I don't know either if this sword is FAKE or not. But from the 10 pages presented in this thread, with interesting and detailed information I came to my conclusion on what I believe. Juries do this every day in America.
So this is a matter of not one but MAYBE two
items that maybe questionable, and maybe not. However as far as being WHO's the expert on reproductions...I think any jury would accept Mr. Frederick J. Stevens as such an individual. His books although out of print, sell for more than any other 3rd reich edged weapons book that I am aware of, to this very day. And why? Cause they deal with only one BIG problem in this business/hobby...REPRODUCTIONS!
Any serious dagger collector will have both his original 1976 edition and the 1981 revised edition. And we are ALL looking forward to the new edition.
Tom Johnson wrote the preface in both editions of this fine book that as mentioned earlier, it has saved collectors an incalculable ammount of money over the years. The following is a quote from the 1st edition by Thomas Johnson. "In sum, an erudite reference devoted SOLELY to the subject of reproduction Third Reich edged weapons is long overdue, and, in my opinion, my good friend, Fred Stevens is the most qualified individual on either side of the Atlantic to author such a text. This reference, which has been compiled over the past several years should more than fill the void in this all-important area." Thomas M. Johnson, LTC, US Army.
So very simply put and without any malice toward no one. I looked at the evidence and behavior of both sides of the issue..I must also state that I have not ever spoken to either Mr. Stevens or Mr. Gotlieb, and I came to MY conclusion on what I would do if it was my sword and dagger. If Mr. Stevens says there are "issues" with an item, I would not want it in my collection. Coupled with the rather "unusual" behavior of the seller...even more so.
I can have an opinon on this issue, can't I? But we are not talking about a 1K SA dagger here...but
BIG MONEY...and, again..in only my opinion..that's the ROOT of ALL EVIL!
I do hope everything will be resolved and all will be satisfied and made whole.
I appove of this message and it was not intended to insult, injure or damage any person or thing, living or dead.

-wagner-

Update: Elsewhere I got another look at the �presentation� Luftwaffe Fliegerdolch under discussion. I can�t say that I was terribly surprised to see that it had a 1930�s vintage nickel silver mounted scabbard and hilt fittings.

For those who are interested in the details of such things: Luftwaffe officers were ordered to replace the (1st model) Fliegerdolch by October 1, 1937 with the (2nd model) Luftwaffe Offizierdolch. The citation for same being a Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt dated July 19, 1937. FP

Ok guys, I have a question for all of you.
Did you ever hear of the Huhnlein - NSKK -Leader-daggers ?
Or from the DAF birds-head dagger?
Please let me know.

Yes, the Huhnlein NSKK "Damascus" dagger is a honest 3rd reich rarity. However 99% of the ones you may encounter out there are fake.
Mr. Stevens has, to the best of my knowledge, the
latest info on the fakes. He also knows where the handful of real ones reside. From what I heard, the fakes will be featured in his upcoming edition. Hope this helps.
-wagner-

No doubt Wags! The only one that I saw that I knew legit was in Grant Bias' collection.

Hi guys , no , thats not what I heard , Mr Stephens think that ALL the Huhnlein - daggers are fake.
Any idea when this book is coming out?
I , for one , cant waith , and would really surprised if it came out at all.

Rob, For the Deutsche Arbeit Front dagger it was a very long time ago - but I recall a DAF cogwheel added to the crossguard of what I thought was a repro diplomat�s dagger. Do you have any pictures? FP

No Fred , sorry , dont have pics .
I was confused with another dagger that I wanted to know something about.

I think we are all waiting in anticipation for FJS's new R?R! Both seasoned and new collectors alike will benefit from the new edition and hopefully can weed out some repros from their collections, there are just too many novice collectors getting caught with both common fakes and enhanced blades.

I would think that if FJS doubts the Huhnlein daggers, he probably has some foundation to his theory, rather than just a gut feeling... He is one of the true scholars of this hobby, and as clever as we sometimes think we are, I tend to listen when an experienced veteran collector has something to say, and there are a few of them here...

The reason that I brought this up , people , is because there are a lot of daggers ( and swords ) that Mr Stephens think that are fake.
If you would say that the Wolf sword is a fake , then every item in our collection could be fake .
The Schnaufer dagger is also a well known piece that has been seen by real big names about 12 years ago , and also was approved of , I recently heard. Early nickel fittings were used quite frequently on presentation pieces,
even late war presentation pieces. Firms used early fittings for these
pieces because the presentation pieces were extra-cost production items. We
do see late-war fittings also, but we also see early fittings. This is a
fact.

We see swords and daggers presented to people that have no business or
authorization to wear them. Yes, if this were a 2nd Model Luftwaffe, I
would be "home free" but it is not, and I know that it is not. The only
explanation is that his NCOs gave this piece to him, or his family
commissioned it. This is a VERY plausible concept. Besides, if a dagger
"forger" of this talent (the blade is phenomenally etched) wanted to fake a
dagger, how easy would it have been to use a 2nd model Luft? Answer: not
hard at all. So, to believe it's a fake, you have to believe that the faker
was "super intelligent" to etch the piece the way he did, and at the same
time, "super dumb" to not pick the better dagger to fake. Only an idiot
would use the 1st model luftwaffe in this case, to fake a dagger like this.
Then the Hunnlein-daggers , they would be fake ALSO in the mind of Mr Stephens.
I talked to some big names since this thread , and heard that saying that these daggers are fake is nonsence .
Some of these daggers were bought from the veterans that brought them back.
I didnt hear any good remark on the Wolf-sword why is was fake of him , and I would like to read the explanation in his book about those Huhnlein-daggers , I dont own a Huhnlein-dagger ( yet)
And , yes you are right if you would say that if the dagger and sword didnt belong to me , then I wouldnt be posting this reply , but I experienced some things that really got me .
Remember the reversed swastika sword?
Mr Stephens also had a problem with it ( and some other "experts" here also )
I met the original owner of the sword , it took some time because his wife died , and he assured me that he got this sword IN the War .
He never noticed the reversed swastika.
I have an open mind , and I will make mistakes in my collecting , I dont claim to be an expert , but if you have some experiences like the one that I have had , then you start to see things different.
I dont want to put a respected writer or expert down , but some things dont add up .
Or you could think that all the stuff that I wrote about IS fake , then forget that I posted this reply.
I got used to it allready that when robNL post something here , the first replies are always negative . For me its no problem , but I hope that it would never happen to me , first saying that an item posted here is fake , and then realizing that I was wrong.
At least I would offer my appologies , if I were wrong.
But who am I ? Just a not paying member with only 275 posts.
Greetings , Rob.

Rob, I will try and keep it brief and focus on just one topic. Twelve years ago this web site did not exist and the Internet was not nearly as educational as it is now.

Twelve years ago if someone had asked Tom Wittmann (who is a very well known name to collectors) about a presentation 1936 dated German Police sword. If the artisan who created such a sword was very skilled there is a reasonable possibility if not probability he would not have known that it had to be a fake. In fact to most collectors including TW - they did not know that it was not until 1938 that the German Police degen was introduced. Not in 1936 as previously thought. The source of that information was not TW but Joe Wotka an expert on the German Police. And it was presented to the collecting community in 2003 in TW�s �SS� book. Which is when most collectors were made aware of the 1938 date.

I thought that the dagger was supposed to be from his brother officers. But a gift from NCO�s, a gift from his family, leftover 1930�s parts etc. etc. are ways to try and rationalize the dagger - but they all miss one important factor. Schnaufer was an officer and was forbidden to wear an enlisted man�s dagger. So why give him something he could not wear???

As for some fakers being stupid that is a fact. They might be good craftsman, but some are really bad historians. The sword I mentioned earlier in the thread was another example where historically provable facts did not match up to the presentation inscription. My point being that �super dumb� does not have a bearing on the skills needed to create well done fakes. And a number of these types of fakes come from the 1960�s, 1970�s, (and later). Some even making an appearance in books not devoted to fakes - but as supposedly original period examples. Once they are unmasked as fakes they usually quickly disappear from sight and are not presented in later books.

I�m not trying to be critical or complicate your collecting experience. I am trying to make a point that relying on experts who may be deficient in some areas. Or who may or may not have your best interests at heart can lead to some unpleasant surprises. FP

BTW: Enlisted men and NCO�s with flight status also were privileged to carry the officer�s (2nd) model dagger. And senior grade NCO�s got the knot just like officers (Unteroffizier mit Portepee). FP

I bought a full SS rohm that belonged to a person close to Hitler.
Was he allowed to have this dagger ????


I know that the big names do like this dagger , and the expert that you are reffering to doesnt like
1; the Wolf sword ,
2; the Schnaufer dagger
3; the Hunlein daggers
4; thinks that a reversed swastika sword is postwar assembled ( I have had a meeting with the original owner )
5; thinks that all the 2nd model railway - daggers with casting flaws are post-war assembled by Atwood , all of them.That leaves some thought to me.

Do you own a Railway - dagger? If you do , then you also have a postwar made by Atwood.

I am not saying that he is not an expert , I am just saying that he has some strange remarks lately.

At the beginning of this thread ( in the middle when I noticed it ), I was a little worried about my pieces , to be honest.
But , now after I have heard everybody that has handled my sword AND my dagger , I am completly satisfied with it , and wouldt sell it for all the money in the world.
I have had contact with allot of experts that know these 2 pieces for a long time.
The details I will keep to myself , because I dont want to start a riot here , since there has been some problems around one of the items.
But the info that I heard was REALLY revealing!

Please dont start about regulations because there are tons of examples out there , where regulations were not followed.

Overall , for me it has been a good thread , and I would like to thank everybody that participated.

Regards , Rob Hanneman.

Rob NL,

Yes, it is true that I do not like the Huhnlein Presentation NSKK Honour Daggers (with, or without chains) and I have some intense information to support my case. So much so that it will make a feature article in my book. You will see it when I finally publish it.

Concerning the Schnaufer Dagger, why don't you post up some good photos, and then I will show you where I consider the etching to be at fault. I tried to put the images up in this thread (this was before I knew that you are the owner), but Craig had them taken down. If he was so confident that the piece is real, then why didn't he leave them up there on view - and present his challenge to my argument?

You have made mention of a DAF Dagger, do you have such an item?

FJS

I am not posting the pictures anymore here because I promised not to , you have allready posted them here , even that you posted pics that you didnt have a right to post.
The reason that I will not post them is NOT beause I think that it is fake , but the problems that were around this dagger , and the way that some people think about the way that the dagger was purchased. Wich I think is nonsence to say that there was a problem with that way .
Do you really think that Craig would sell a fake dagger ? Some people here do , I dont.
This is a bussines man , and selling fake daggers is bad for bussines.
He was the founder of this site , but some remarks I read here on this site didnt show much respect to him.

No , I dont own a DAF dagger,
regards , Rob.

No one is all mighty and everyone can make an honest mistake.
I've seen it happen before and there are numerous examples out there...........even from the most respectable dealers.
This hobby is way too complex for one individual to be perfect in every field.
What do I know ? I've only been collecting for a short 7 years.


I'm not implying anything but it is just too bad that we were not allowed to view those "taboo" pics.

Why ? I don't know !

Frederick's proposal was most honorable and as far as I understand, he simply wants to help a fellow collector. We can't blame him for that !

At the end of it all, what really counts Rob, is that you're trully happy with it.

We are just trying to help one another. I hope that you did appreciate the fact that we told you that your HJ Leader was a complete fake and that there can't be any doubts about it.

That alone, made you saved a few thousand dollars and this is what its all about.

Good collecting !

Pat

Rob NL,

Here is a straightforward question - and I would like you to answer this publicly: When Craig sold you the Schnaufer Dagger, did he reveal to you that I had previously told him my understandings why this item was a fake, and that I urged him to get his money back? Did he say any of this to you?

In fact I stated to Craig that if he wanted to pursue his money back, then I would make all my knowledge available to him to fight his case.

Craig's response was that it was: "It's OK, I can look after myself".

Rob NL, I want you to think about something. If you check this GD site you will find references published where Craig is saying that he is going to team up with me on a book about Reproductions. Why would he wish to that - if I am so inept at understanding reproductions?

I have been studying Reproduction German Daggers from a time that is before Craig was born - and I also wrote my first books before he was born. Of course I acknowledge that I make some mistakes from time to time, generally it is in small peripheral areas and it doesn't usually affect the outcome of my overall examination.

So the reason that Craig no longer wants to be part of my research into fakes is because it is incompatible to his business interests.

I will study the rest of your letter off-line, and reply in the next 24-48 hours. For the immediate moment, however, I would like your response to my questions about the Schnaufer Dagger.

I will put all my cards on the table in front of you. I hope you have the courage to do the same with me.

Best regards

Frederick J. Stephens

Gee, sounds like a fair request to me.
-wagner-

??? Mr Stephens , didnt we talk aout those SAME questions when you E-mailed me privatly?
Didnt you get an answer also ?
You allready have my response to the Schnaufer dagger also .
Acording to you , half of the daggers ( and swords ) out there are fake.
If you are so sure that the Wolf sword is a fake , then why do you e-mail me that you wish to inspect it in person?
Is it because your not so sure anymore?
Or because a man like Thomas Johnson does like it?

Wagner , do you really believe that Craig would sell a fake dagger?

Greetings , Rob.

The Schnaufer 1st model Luft, was sold by the son of Gordon Henger at the MAX in Indy last fall. Gordon had fallen ill and was in a assisted living home in the Houston area, where he had lived and worked during his life. Before the show, Tom Wittmann was asked to come by the Son's table to assist him in priceing a bunch of SA dagger, hangers, gorgets etc, that were part of Gordons collection. Among the items was the Schnaufer 1st model Luft. No doubt Tom Johnson knew about the items that were being offered as he and Gordon were very close friends going back a good many years. I even saw TJ sitting behind the Son's table buying a fair amount of inventory from Gordon's collection that was displayed. GDC member BAZ 69, even bought an SA vertical hanger at the table. It was no secret that the 1st model Luft was at the table as it even had Tom Wittmann's very own hand writing on the price tag! As did most of all the other items that were being offered.

The Schnaufer 1st model Luft was originally sold by Wolf-Hardin.

Most of the items offered that day were priced so cheaply that it's no wonder it was a feeding frenzy at the Henger table. I have no idea why they were priced this way, but it's just a fact. I picked up numerous pieces there, using Tom Wittmann's prices, at 1/4 to 1/5 of their true value. I assume that Johnson did the same. As for my integrity, I would NEVER sell a dagger (or anything) that I thought was fake. My reputation for excellence in this regard is well-established. The controversy surrounding how I came out with this piece is well-known, and Rob is entirely correct - I don't wish to spend hours upon hours reliving the pain and misery that the score cost me.

Mr. Stephens. How dare you assault my character with the statement that "I don't care about fakes because it is not in my business interest to care about them." I merely don't agree with you on many issues, and neither does the rest of the well-informed collecting community. You believe that your word is gospel, and you act as though anyone who does not heed your word is guilty of criminal negligence. You have proven yourself to be a word-breaker when the pressure is on, and I have lost a lot of respect for you because of that. I on the other hand have built a reputation for excellence and integrity in dealing. My lifetime guarantee is the only transferrable guarantee on the market, and I have tossed many a good pieces that I paid hard-earned money for in the proverbial garbage because I discovered them to be fake. I am deeply concerned with fakes in this hobby, and I think my large customer base and network of friends will attest to the fact that people trust my character and value my opinion. By most accounts, you lost a very well-fought argument about this sword, and have now reduced yourself to unsubstantiated and personal assaults on my character. You owe me another apology.

I initially partnered with you on Reproduction Recognition because I believed you to be a keen researcher with a very sharp intellect. I disassociated myself from the project because to date, you have performed NO work on the project. I flew to the UK to work with you, and we got very little done. I have taken hundreds of photographs of reproductions that I have handled (many of which I owned, and could easily have hocked off as original, were I the crook that you suggest that I am). And to date, you have done nothing with the photos. I have sent you two written sections for your commentary, and you have done nothing with them.

As we have debated over the past years about a good many pieces that I (and the rest of the collecting world) believe in, I have come to view you as a stubborn person and a natural born skeptic (two things you readily admit to). Folks - Fred and I used to argue for hours about the NSKK High Leader Dagger. Fred thinks that the entire class of daggers are fake - the product of a well-orchestrated hoax, designed to fleece the collecting community over a span of decades. He once told me "Find me a photo of one in wear, and I'll eat my hat." Well, I found a photo of one in wear, and guess what? Fred dug in his heels, and refused to accept the defeat that he had been wrong. Then, you did it again with the Wolf sword. You proclaimed that it was fake, and then when confronted with overwhelming documentation to the contrary, you dug in, and refused to relent. You invented theories about Railway Dagger flaws, suggested that General Wolf was a conspirator to sell a bad sword (without a shred of evidence). Foks, I even hand-carried another very rare one-of-a-kind dagger that I surfaced last year to England so that Fred could have "hands on" of a piece that he doubted in photos. His arguments against this piece were as shaky as his arguments about the Wolf sword and the NSKK High Leader and other pieces. But for me, these examples were the beginning of the end of my involvement with Reproduction Recognition. Word-breaking on the part of Mr. Stephens, and unwarranted personal assualts on my character merely closed the door permenantly.

For the old timers in the collecting community, Gordon use to set up at the MAX years ago and had at least 6 tables just jammed with SA dagger. He use to have a sign "this table $200 each........... this table $300 each" It was a hoot!

I read Mr. Stephens comments about Craig and it's a load of crap! I have never known Craig to knowingly sell an item he didn't believe in. I have seen him turn down pieces that could have easily sold for original and that later were sold as original by someone else. Craig can sometimes be a pain in the butt to deal with and can be at times abrasive but in my opinion is very honest. He like every other dealer worth their salt and guarantes his items for life. What the heck is wrong with someone who says stuff like this about a guy. I think it's time for this guy to quitely retire or begin researching the origin of the Ginzu Knife! I'm sure I'll have some heat directed at me for this. But I can take it.

Gailen David

quote:

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb:
I picked up numerous pieces there, using Tom Wittmann's prices, at 1/4 to 1/5 of their true value.

How could TW make such mistakes????
Or did he perhaps see something he did not like, and priced the items accordingly?

Cheers,

When Gordon Henger and Jeff Roth did their motel buys back in the day (I was doing them at the same time, but not as many-I had a regular job), we would buy between 15 and 50 SA Daggers at each buy. That's why they were the most common TR Dagger that came in and made them the quickest to purchase. When the veteran or his family looked at the bed or table and saw a mound of SA Daggers, they quickly figured out that they didn't have the holy of holy daggers and weren't going to get the big money. This is why Gordon sold them in the manner he did at the shows.
I, at that time, didn't have time to set up at shows and sold to Tom Johnson and Joe Pankowski and a few others by volume: SAs, Armys, 2nd Lufts and HJ Knives. THOSE WERE THE DAYS! GONE FOR EVER, BUT GLAD I WAS THERE!!!
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

quote:

Originally posted by Trigger:

quote:

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb:
I picked up numerous pieces there, using Tom Wittmann's prices, at 1/4 to 1/5 of their true value.

How could TW make such mistakes????
Or did he perhaps see something he did not like, and priced the items accordingly?

Cheers,

I don't think that he made any mistakes.
He very well knew how much these daggers were worth and yet, he priced them at a fraction of their real value. Guess why ? Who do you think were the first buyers ? Yes, you guessed it right ! The same daggers were then seen afterwards on the big dealer tables at + 400% mark up.


Not making any judgements and I also would probably bought a few daggers for myself if I would've been there.
Still, it is very sad to sell $ 75,000 worth of daggers for only $ 15,000.
That's a huge loss to the family and do feel somewhat sorry for them.
That's just my opinion but I'm very romantic
and do feel sometimes like Robin Hood.