UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum The NICE postman brought me a chained SS

No point in beating yourself up over it, what's done is done. Might not have been together as a set for ever, who knows ? Nice dagger though !

Let's hope others with a few bucks will think it's a nice dagger too

J,-

unless I`m mistaken I don`t think that english is Jespers first language & given that fact sometimes it is easy to misinterpret what is being stated. as soon as I saw the advert for the hanger I realised the misinterpretation Jesper had made as did Houston & probably everyone else that has seen it.....

Jonathan, what`s done is done????

Look in the classifieds, the hanger has been sold. No big deal, I'm just addressing Jesper's post

Yes - I'm from Denmark and my English is VERY rusty !!!

Please understand that I am ONLY sad because the hanger and the dagger turned out to belong together !!!

THANK YOU for understanding the situation, Jonathan.

Jesper

quote:

Originally posted by JONATHAN:
Look in the classifieds, the hanger has been sold. No big deal, I'm just addressing Jesper's post

No longer there. I`ve never seen any topic disappear from that forum so fast.

Jesper--I did my best to tell you what was right. I'm sorry you did not understand.

Like I previously wrote to a fellow collector here on GDC: My English is VERY rusty...

J,-

I think you might talk to the buyer about this because of the misunderstanding.

That's a pretty sad story when considering that such a rare SS hanger is worth a lot more than what it sold for.
I'm like Jesper and english is not my mother tongue and I sometimes get confused.
I once lost a deal on a Chained SS just because I mistunderstood the seller's "sense of humor".
I knew that I should've watched Benny Hills more often.

First I actually called off the deal.

Then I told myself that I couldn't do that.

THEN mails came pouring in telling me that I made a BIG MISTAKE splitting the dagger from the hanger.

For me it wasn't the money - it was a question about keeping the items together.

NOW the dagger is on hold - hence the solution should be found...luckily !!!

Regards
Jesper

I hope that something can be worked out to keep the pieces together. Too much stuff has been parted out over the years by dealers that see more $$$$ in splitting things up.

Good luck!!

My mistake !!!

J,-

As you all might have seen the buyer of the hanger was very polite and pleasant when I cancelled the deal. He understood what was going on...

The dagger AND the hanger has now found ONE new home...buyer got the hanger for the same price as it was sold on GDC for

Jesper

hi, i am very impressed by grumpy's willingness to cancel a done deal, done in good faith. i am also impressed by jesper's desire to keep an historical item as intact as possible. i think both of these members are acting as gentlemen, in all meanings of the term. however, i i would urge grumpy to re-consider setting a precedent of this scale. one thing that i think is great about this forum, is that you are allowed to make mistakes, as a buyer and a seller. i feel that the underlying theme of this forum is that education and information counts more than collections. this forum does not suffer fools, and should not. i think that all of us collectors learn lessons the hard way, and should do so. again, i think grumpy deserves a lot of credit for his move, but i would caution
setting this precedent.
sincerely, c.

grumpy actually seemed quite upset that his transaction had been cancelled due to other members telling jesper that the hanger was for an ss dagger not a sword thus rare and worth more money then he had paid for it??

i should say rightly upset if his offer to buy had been accepted then cancelled due to the item being found to be worth more then it sold for. in my opinion the sale should have gone through

I would strongly like to underline that the sale ONLY was cancelled because the hanger belonged to the dagger.

The new owner of the dagger got the hanger for the same price as it originally was sold for !!!

Jesper

I have seen this hanger bedore and it is correcty for the dagger in my opinion.

Gailen David

Wonderful - I know someone who likes what you say very much

Jesper

I thought that there was a larger issue at stake here, but perhaps I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by ou812:
First I actually called off the deal.

Then I told myself that I couldn't do that.

THEN mails came pouring in telling me that I made a BIG MISTAKE splitting the dagger from the hanger.

For me it wasn't the money - it was a question about keeping the items together.

NOW the dagger is on hold - hence the solution should be found...luckily !!!

Regards
Jesper

It sounds to me like Mike McAlvanah was the person who got this dagger on hold. Mike certainly seem s to believe so. Something is not right here. I strongly believe in fairness & thought that OU812 deserved a bit of grace given his misunderstanding of the hanger. I don`t think anyone with integrity would want to take advantage of someone making an honest mistake. integrity is the key word here. Grumpy was very gracious & let him off the hook as far as the hanger is concerned on the understanding of an honourable motive to keep the hanger & dagger together. This should have been offered to the buyer of the dagger. It appears that the intended buyer of the dagger (Mike)has also been let down & the piece has gone to another (mystery) buyer with the assurance that no premium was charged on the hanger. I think some clarification is due.

See answer here here

Jesper

Since the link doesn't work I better explain what went on.

A. I sold the hanger that belonged to the dagger because I thought it didn't belong to the dagger. Afterwards I found out that the hanger DID belong to the dagger and I thought it was a shame that the dagger and the hanger should be separated. Hence I let the hanger follow the dagger - sold it for the same price as the hanger had been given away for.

B. September the 15th I got a mail from the first interested buyer of the dagger. He wanted to reserve the dagger and I said he could have the dagger if a friend of mine didn't want the dagger. My friend didn't want the dagger and September the 16th I mailed the buyer that he could have the dagger. I didn't get an instant reply, though.

C. September the 17th another buyer said that he wanted the dagger. Because of this I put the dagger on hold. I sent SO MANY MAILS to the second buyer without getting an answer. Reason was that the mails couldn't be delivered.

D. The first buyer got back to me and said that he hadn't received any mails but was ready to transfer the money to me.

Since I hadn't heard a single word from the second buyer in two days I chose to sell the dagger to the first interested buyer.

I do NOT feel that I did anything wrong when I let the dagger and the hanger stay together. Especially because they were a pair and because I didn't earn more by keeping the pair together.

I do NOT feel that I did anything wrong when I sold the dagger to the first interested buyer (who I felt that I in fact made a deal with). Especially because I didn't know the second buyer - he never really gave me any specific contact informations - I only had his email address that didn't work.

Hence I do not feel that I have done anything wrong - except that I perhaps should have read the thread regarding the hanger more carefully and that I should have given the first buyer of the dagger more time to respond.

Jesper

PS: I have very much learned from this incident and NEXT time I will show the utmost patience regarding selling items on GDC. I will however not accept lack of communication due to for instance an invalid email address etc.

I don't know you but I am sorry if it was me that misled you here. That was my initial impression of the hanger and after others pointed out the differences between it and a sword hanger I agreed that my initial impression was in error and I've told you this privately already.
However; It was clear by the end of the first thread that this was in fact a dagger hanger.
I will assuredly reserve my impressions in the future.
Jim

I think it's unfair to use Jim's comment to illustrate a point here. It was quite obvious that the hanger was a dagger hanger after Houston made his comments, before the dagger was sold.

And whilst some of you may disagree with me, I'm sorry but it isn't the end of the world to see the hanger separated from the dagger. Who can really prove these two go together all the way back ? Ok so it's a nice chained SS but it isn't a piece of major historical significance, let's just put things into perspective and move on.

Jonathan

I DONT THINK ANYONE HAS VALUED THE BOX HANGER THOUGH I MAY HAVE MISSED THAT AS IT IS A LONG THREAD,I HAVE BEEN OFFERED ONE OF THESE,AND DARE I ASK AFTER ALL THIS CAFUFFLE WHAT IS A FAIR PRICE.???????
DIPPY

STUPID QUESTIONS WHEN ANSWERED SOMETIMES SURPRISE !!!

OH BY THE WAY MR WITTMANS BOOK ON THE DAGGERS AND SWORDS OF THE SS,PAGE 605 GIVES HOUSTON THE ACE IN THE HOLE,I THINK.IT SEEMS TO AGREE WITH THE FACT THESE ARE RARER BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR THE PURPOSE OF HANGING SS CHAINED DAGGERS.
DIPPY

IF A PICTURE PAINTS A THOUSAND WORDS THEN ....WHY DO ALL THE BOOKS I READ NOT HAVE ENOUGH IN THEM.

Thanks JONATHAN:
I think this makes it apparent why many and I guess It will now include me have become increasingly reluctant to comment on anything anyone posts here anymore.
GDC has evolved and, at least in my opinion, not really for the better. What used to be primarily a teaching and learning venue oriented towards expanding and enjoying the hobby has now become primarily a sales venue.
In reflecting upon the recent spate of arguments here; if you look at the underlying reason in most cases, it has to to with buying/selling and ultimately either egos or money*. It true that the political discussions are now gone and this forum has been sanitized and is now "politically correct" but to what end?
Is this forum better off now than it was 1 year ago? 2 years ago? 5 years ago?
*Sometimes apparentely these are both one and the same.

HI JIM I AGREE WHEN YOU SAY THIS SHOULD BE A PLACE TO LEARN,I MYSELF HAVE ONLY BEEN COLLECTING FOR SEVEN YEARS,NO TIME AT ALL COMPARED WITH THE MANY EXPERIENCED GUYS ON THE FORUM,I HAVE DETECTED A NOTE OF DISPONDANCY ABOUT THE WAY THE FORUM HAS GONE ,I FOR ONE THOUGH REALLY APPRECIATE THE FROM THE HEART PASSION DONT LET IT DIE BECAUSE IT IS FELT THAT MONEY HAS COME TO PLAY A BIGGER PART IN THE DISCUSSIONS,I AM AFRAID THIS IS WHY THE NEW COLLECTORS NEED YOUR HELP ,THERE ARE MORE FAKES AND CHARLETONS AROUND AND THE STAKES ARE HIGHER DUE TO PRICE RISES,SO HELP IS MORE NEEDED NOW THAN EVER,NOBODY LIKES TO HEAR THE WHEELING AND DEALING SIDE BUT IT IS THERE,DISCUSSION AND ARGUEMENT MAKE THE WORLD GO ROUND.SO LETS ALL MAKE SURE WE GET OUR FAIR SHARE.THIS STATEMENT HAS %100 BEEN MADE WITHOUT WISHING TO UPSET ANYONE SO PLEASE DONT BE OFFENDED .
DIPPY

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION IN LIFE
ITS JUST UNFORTUNATE MINE IS ALWAYS RIGHT

quote:

Originally posted by jim m:
I don't know you but I am sorry if it was me that misled you here. That was my initial impression of the hanger and after others pointed out the differences between it and a sword hanger I agreed that my initial impression was in error and I've told you this privately already.
However; It was clear by the end of the first thread that this was in fact a dagger hanger.
I will assuredly reserve my impressions in the future.
Jim

Don't be sorry, Jim !!!

It is not your fault that I am VERY nervous when it comes to SS daggers (and other items from the period).

Reason naturally is the emense number of copies that in many ways have ruind the hobby for me.

/Jesper

Back in the 1980's Tom Johnson and I were on a buying trip in Germany. No one had contacts like Johnson in those days. He knew a family who owned one of the Third Reich accourterment firms and we made an appointment to meet with him. The factory was located right behind his house. It was bascally untouched and like going back in time. We went through a lot of the remaining 50 year old stock remaining. There were little boxes full of Third Reich dagger and sword hangers. One box had thirty Chained Dagger SS dagger hangers in it. They were SS marked with the code given this firm. The dagger hanger used a box fitting unlike the clip used for the SS sword hanger. It was a great find.

Gailen David

Jesper,
regrettably you were in a no win situation. It is not always easy to do what we believe to be the right thing. What that right thing is will always be subjective & particularly so to those who are involved.
Nobody actually lost anything here but somebody else did gain & that as much as anything will inevitably rankle. We are all subject to the frailty of human nature.

I must respectfully disagree with Jonathan. The fact is that nobody can prove that they were not always together & there is every reasonable chance that they were.

I really do think it is a shameful act to separate items that have been together from an historical point in time.

To illustrate,

I recall Gustavo recently offered a grouping that had a dagger & copies of award documents with one remaining award that he had hunted & purchased separately. The items had been split up by a dealer called Huesen? (or something like) because he made more money that way. My opinion of that act is so vitriolic it cannot be written here.

No doubt each of us views our collecting in a different way. That is just my opinion & we shall have to agree to disagree.

I think Jesper has ultimately done the right thing for the right reason in very thorny circumstances & it is unfortunate that it inevitably caused some upset. END OF

Try Andre Huskens for your Dealer.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

THANK YOU for understanding my dispositions !!!

End of story from here - but I'd once again like to underline that I have learned from the incident !!!

Jesper

Landser

I appreciate your comment, however your illustration of the Gustavo case is rather far removed from the case here in my opinion. An anonymous hanger/dagger combination is in my book not in the same category as named award certs/dagger grouping with provenance. Anyway as you say, let's agree to disagree, no problem.

Here's a pic of a grouping I have and which I will never split up -

I would like to make one final comment about this whole sorry mess- Some of what ou explained is correct-Some of his explanation is blatently incorrect- Most of what he omitted is,of course,pertinent. I will have no further dealings with this seller. Mike

As part of GermanDaggers Continuing Education Program I would like to start with the Famous Quote of the Day-beware-" Something is rotten in the State of Denmark"- Hamlet (ScI,ActIV,Line90)

Yes Dave ,you may suspend me if necessary-I have zero remorse-Mike

Mike: I have always found you to be honest and straight forward in your dealings. Will have to side with you.

Gailen David