#84501
03/16/2006 06:33 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
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#84502
03/16/2006 06:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Too heavy stamped marking, i would be carefully, wait for other opinions.best regards,Andy
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#84503
03/16/2006 02:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
This frog looks correct to me and the stamping is probably a Luftwaffe re-issue unit stamping as these were utilized by the Luftwaffe, especially the RLM. Ron Weinand Weinand Militaria
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#84504
03/16/2006 02:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147 |
Keith, I would say it is OK. Most unit markings I see have that flat stamp impression (probably heat with pressure) as opposed to the V type cut of a manufacturer marking. Also, too obscure of a marking for a fake. Now if it said SS I'd be worried! Nice frog I hope you get it.---Jeff
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#84505
03/16/2006 06:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Keith, Less common than the �V� type of characters, I also have at least one example of a broad flat style Luftwaffe unit marked frog, but for the 84/98 (and some other slightly narrower ones). I agree and it looks OK to me also. Good Luck!! FP
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#84506
03/18/2006 09:18 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
Many thanks Gentlemen for the excellent input. I was watching the auction but didn't bid. A bit steep for me though !
Cheers,
Keith
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#84507
03/18/2006 10:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900 |
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#84508
03/18/2006 10:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900 |
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#84509
03/18/2006 10:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900 |
Ronald,
why do you think that the "BAM"-mark is a Luftwaffe Stamp?
I would say, it means Bekleidungs Amt Marine. Luftwaffe marks BAL.
Best regards
Kolibri
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#84510
03/18/2006 08:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Kolibri, A minor point, but as early as 1935 Third Reich era 84/98 Luftwaffe frogs were marked �L.B.A.� so I think that you may have changed the order with �BAL� ?? It also occurred to me that there could be other possibilities for �BAM� given the complexity and contradictions of some of the German marking systems, and the fact that the frog is brown. But WW I field gear/uniforms is not an area where I have a lot of expertise and I�m more than willing to expand my knowledge with input from a specialist or specialists in that collecting area. Best Regards, FP
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#84511
03/19/2006 07:28 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 900 |
Fred,
at first, you are right. LBA not BAL.
The Navy marked in this time only BAK or BAW (Kiel or Wilhelmshaven).
The frog looks without any doubt like a reissued WW1 frog, but a Luftwaffe-mark seems me impossible. There was no Airforce in Germany 1930 and the mark means BA, not LBA. BAM 9-30 must mean "Bekleidungsamt M�nchen, September (?) 1930".
I dont know, why it is brown. In the past I found more than one Reichswehr belts in brown leather. But may be, it was a private bought frog - look at the thin thread, the thin leather and it seems me a little bit to shiny for a chamber-piece. The markings could be put later on the frog, to sell it a little bit better.
Only for showing a LBA mark on a knot.
Regards
Kolibri
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#84512
03/19/2006 10:23 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
Actually the reason I asked about this frog is because I have a similar one but it was obviously a fake. The markings are identical to the one at eBay but the date on mine is 1914 instead of 1915.
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#84513
03/19/2006 10:26 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
Same BAM 9 30 stamped on the back side. I said its a fake because this frog use aluminum rivets. It smells new and the corners / edges are real sharp.
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#84514
03/19/2006 10:33 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
This frog came with a Weimar reissue police bayonet / sidearm. The seller honestly admitted that he made up this rig with a frog that "purchase at fleamarket". If examine closely, this frog is thinner than comtemporary butcher frogs. I am not sure about the one at eBay, I was thinking are all BAM 9 30 marked frogs are fakes or only those dated 1914 ??? Thanks again for the input Keith
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#84515
03/20/2006 12:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2 |
Keith,
I got a couple of those frogs out of a junkbox at a show over 18 years ago now, so they've been round a few years at least. There were a couple more that had seen better days; the stitching was going & they were oil soaked. Like yours they're also smooth side out, thinner leather than normal service versions, but have steel rivets & although they were obviously a reasonable age, they had never held a bayonet. All 1914 & 1915 dates. Every one I've seen to date has the same 'property' mark... I'd say they're more like a dress frog though.
Mick
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#84516
03/21/2006 10:47 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608
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OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 608 |
Hi Mick,
First of all, welcome to the forum.
Many thanks for the input. These frogs are very well made and in time I think they will pass as real stuff like those fake daggers and even engraved 98Ks.
Cheers,
Keith
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#84517
03/22/2006 02:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2 |
Hi Keith,
thanks! Who knows where they came from, but they are quite well made as you say.
Surely you wouldn't put them in the same class as those garish engraved 98k's though! I'd have to go to the trouble of dragging those frogs out from wherever they're hidiong & getting rid of them. :-)
Mick
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