#53086
01/29/2008 02:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
I've always had an interest in SS daggers that are numbered. Coupled with the SS Dienstalterlist, they provide an opportunity to put a history with an artifact. Attached are pics of some of the numbered examples I've accumulated.
It's interesting that two of the examples are only 1 digit apart and that they are both Klaas manufacture and are Roman Numeral l marked.
There is no credit given to who owns the daggers. If posting the pictures offends any one, I apologize.
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#53087
01/29/2008 02:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53088
01/29/2008 02:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53089
01/29/2008 02:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53090
01/29/2008 02:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53091
01/29/2008 02:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53092
01/29/2008 02:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53093
01/29/2008 02:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53094
01/29/2008 02:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53095
01/29/2008 02:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53096
01/29/2008 02:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53097
01/29/2008 02:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53098
01/29/2008 02:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53099
01/29/2008 02:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53100
01/29/2008 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128 Likes: 2
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128 Likes: 2 |
TEX ..... What a neat assemblage of Numbered SS Daggers! The different locations & the total disregard for the I, II, III markings is always interesting. Having the 'ID Numbers' gives us the unique opportunity to have a chance to look into the past, with the various SS Researchers who do such a great job. Txs, Dave/dblmed
[Always looking for TeNo � Schuma � Technische Noodhulp Items...]
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#53101
01/29/2008 03:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53102
01/29/2008 03:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6
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OP
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 6 |
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#53103
01/29/2008 04:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049 |
I have 54555 on an Eickhorn ground Rohm stamped on underside of lower crossguard will get a photo to you in due course
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#53104
01/29/2008 04:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 288 Likes: 1
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 288 Likes: 1 |
38875 is mine. It's a named,numbered ground Rohm Boker that Ross Kellbaugh researched for me. He was able to put together a wonderful set of documents including three pictures,one with him in his SS uniform. I owned it several years before the owner was identified and still have it.
Jim
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#53105
01/29/2008 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi All: Daggers 230 807 and 114 983 shown here can be identified. I still excited when I get a hit even though I am approaching almost 100 of them. Regards, Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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#53106
01/29/2008 06:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58 |
What an excellent thread.
I have the following, but I guess the owners probably know the recipients already.
3,863 6,185 25,824 114,983
If they haven't, then get in touch I will supply you with the names
Best wishes
Raymond
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#53107
01/29/2008 07:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2 |
"What an excellent thread.I have the following, but I guess the owners probably know the recipients already.
3,863 6,185 25,824 114,983
If they haven't, then get in touch I will supply you with the names
Best wishes Raymond"Raymond- I assume you are offering that information for free, as well. Kudos to you, my friend Rob
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#53108
01/29/2008 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 |
Ross found the owner on this Rohm Boker. -serge-
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#53109
01/29/2008 07:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2 |
Here's my serialized Herder, #109,892
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#53110
01/29/2008 07:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 933
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#53111
01/29/2008 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Hi,9th Nov. Nice assemblage. Could you tell me number /maker of SS Zivil pin please?? Cheers Seiler (Yank in UK)
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#53112
01/29/2008 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 |
Wow! 9th Nov, that is a super grouping you have there. Are we to assume that all those items belonged to the same SS officer? Here is a Boker that Mr. McDivitt did a file for me. When you can place a name to a dagger it really is great. Great Thread! -serge-
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#53113
01/29/2008 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Nice one there Serge. Paperwork shows AGAIN,the SS Zivilpin Number is NOT the the Owners SS Number as so many "bang on" about. Cheers.(Seiler Yank in UK)
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#53114
01/29/2008 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
I have "Boker" No.5118. Nice big fat file with pics of Standartenfuhrer owner from J.P.Moore Cheers Seiler (Yank in UK)
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#53115
01/29/2008 09:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58 |
Raymond- I assume you are offering that information for free, as well. Kudos to you, my friend Rob[/QUOTE] Sorry, yes of course. If I am able the access the information then it is pleasure to re-tie the threads of history. Raymond
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#53116
01/29/2008 11:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,099 Likes: 102
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,099 Likes: 102 |
The service provided is not free. When I inquired,
I was told ....."My regular fee would be $400 each (Primary Owner Documentation research package is$225 and Advanced Research Package is $175)." ...
Dave
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#53117
01/30/2008 01:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58 |
quote: Originally posted by Seiler: Nice one there Serge. Paperwork shows AGAIN,the SS Zivilpin Number is NOT the the Owners SS Number as so many "bang on" about. Cheers.(Seiler Yank in UK)
I thought this myth had already been destroyed. There are the odd example of the SS-Zivilabzeichen matching the SS number, though these are the exception rather than the rule. Raymond
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#53118
01/30/2008 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi All: This is the first numbered SS dagger I purchased and use as my avatar. It's a bit unusual with the number on the front. I have come within one digit of identifying the SS Mann 81 852. The reverse of this is illustrated in TW's Exploring the Dress Daggers and Swords of the German SS on p. 189 since it also has the SS number and standarte number (16) stamped on the back of the scabbard. Regards, Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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#53119
01/30/2008 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
There are still people out there who think the SSZA No,s are Membership numbers ,and NO the myth has not been consigned to the bin. Seiler (Yank in UK)
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#53120
01/30/2008 05:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58 |
Hi
Well I debunk the SS-ZA myth whenever I am asked (which is quite a lot).
Getting back to the SS numbers, I have the following names from the ones that were posted.
3,863 - Keppels, Hubert 6,185 - Dachwald, Johann 25,824 - Brauer, Erich 114,983 - Martin, Josef
Raymond
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#53121
01/30/2008 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 |
Thanks Seiler. I wasn't aware that there was a "controversy" regarding Zivilpin number "match". Maybe because the samples I had/have never matched. Thanks for bringing this issue up. Maybe Ross, Bernie or some of our other "SS number" colleagues can comment on this issue here. Trying to learn more. -serge-
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#53122
01/30/2008 06:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58 |
Hi Serge
There is not really a great deal of controversy with SS civilian pin numbers.
It is a question that I am asked as collectors see a number and make an assumption that it was the recipients SS number. There was also an article some years ago in The Military Advisor that supported this.
It is a fact that the number on the back of the pin is the issue number and not the SS number. Out of the many thousands of numbers I have seen, I can only think of a handful where the issue number has matched the recipients SS number
Hope this helps
Raymond
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#53123
01/30/2008 06:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 |
Thanks Raymond. -serge-
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#53124
01/31/2008 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi All: I have to concur with Raymond. Attached is a typical SS service filecard on which the SS and ZA numbers are always listed. I have seen lots of these, and amongst them these numbers have been different. I have also come across documents with the Mann's SS number & ZA numbers listed separately and none of them matched. I can't help but wonder about where the master file for this information is. Regards, Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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#53125
01/31/2008 01:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi Again: Since this started out as a serial numbered SS dagger topic, here is the numbered SS dagger from my collection for the SS Mann with SS No. 7101 whose personnel card I posted. Enjoy! Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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