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OP
Joined: Dec 2017
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Hi
This is my R.K. There are no particular doubts , bat still I would like to know the opinions of more experienced people.
Thanks Vik
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ASmith |
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OP
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What I see looks very good. Nice catch.
Dave
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Who doesn't like a beautiful Robt Klaas
PVON
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ASmith |
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Pvon, that is really nice. Are you going to the SOS?
Mark
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Hello Mark
No I am not!
Age and health have slowed me down!
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Hello, Mark,
We don't see you too often these days. Still collecting ?
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A bit here and there. I still have a lot of SA, SS, LUFT and Army daggers and some Allach. Too many old friends have passed and I missed the interaction with other members. Most of the nicest Luftwaffe chained daggers I have came from Pvon.
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Mark Glad to see you post. Hope all has been going well. Ron
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Thanks Mark
You always were a nice guy and a plus to the hobby!
You also were a real player, with class!
PVON
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Joined: Mar 2000
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My contribution to the thread, a pick up from last year. Early Klaas stuff is very well done for sure. Not a ground Rohm but condition that I couldn't pass up.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Nice motto too.
Great to see you back Mark!
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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One of the best blades shown in a while.
Always looking for top condition daggers of any variety!
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Outstanding WOW cheers, R
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I have always thought Klass to be an under rated maker of SS daggers. They are high quality and well assembled. The trademark is great.
Dave
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Joined: Jul 2022
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Joined: Jul 2022
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Nice daggers shown I notice on some Klass daggers the runes button has short stubby SS runes while others have long runes that touch the inner circle. Is there any reason for this or was it a case of a different style of button from maybe a new supplier.
Regards mametz
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ASmith |
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Hello, Mametz, and welcome to GDC. Many SS daggers, particularly those of the larger makers have more than one style of rune. They were a minor supplier item and there are many styles found. I have never agreed with the idea that any given maker can have just one type. Here is a contest I did some while ago to ID daggers by their runes. Take a look: https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=250609#Post250609Dave
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ASmith |
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Thanks for the link Dave very interesting, looks like there is no hard and fast rule with these rune buttons
Regards mametz
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Joined: May 2004
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Joined: May 2004
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In my opinion, this grip must have been darkened postwar: it is not what you expect to see on an early untouched M33 SS by Robert Klaas...
Did you buy it from a US dealer?
Best regards,
Herman
1.JPG (102.6 KB, 213 downloads) 3.JPG (87.77 KB, 214 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/28/2022 09:54 PM.
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Herman,
I've got a few SS daggers and have seen many others. Many do have black grips after all the years. I suspect it varies because of type of wood, amount of handling, and the original dye used .. if any was used.
Dave
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Joined: May 2004
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That black finishing is not +80 years old. And the guards also have been polished recently...
I can guess though which US dealer's hands this one has been...
Herman
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/29/2022 01:30 PM.
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Joined: May 2004
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Early Robert Klaas SS-grips originally don't look like that.
Herman
4.JPG (85.88 KB, 196 downloads)
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Yes, Herman, the guards have been cleaned or polished in the 25-35 years or so. The scabbard fittings too, I expect.
And the owner has put shoe polish or wax on the leather of the hanger, or at least he should have done.
As to the grips, I have seen many shades from brown to jet black on SS daggers. Depends on the original color of the wood or the dye used or the wear.
Dave
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OP
Joined: Dec 2017
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Hi guys Thanks for your interest in the topic. Here is a photo of the hilt on a blue background. It is not as black as on a white background. You can see brown spots. I bought this dagger in Europe several years ago. I have seen painted hilts, but this one does not look like a repainted one.
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OP
Joined: Dec 2017
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Here are two more daggers. Both early production and one manufacturer - Boker. Handles vary in color and type of wood.
Reg.
Vik
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These last pictures of your Klaas SS's grip are indeed more assuring, Vik!
The wood looks as it should!
Very nice dagger!
Herman
PS: I would recommend to avoid opening the dagger and no longer polish the nickel-silver parts
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/30/2022 10:34 AM.
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Joined: May 2004
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Yes, Herman, the guards have been cleaned or polished in the 25-35 years or so. The scabbard fittings too, I expect.
And the owner has put shoe polish or wax on the leather of the hanger, or at least he should have done.
As to the grips, I have seen many shades from brown to jet black on SS daggers. Depends on the original color of the wood or the dye used or the wear.
Dave You were right, Dave! Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Joined: Aug 2022
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New guy here. Before I purchase my first SS dagger I have been buying books, reading forums and generally trying to soak up everything I can. I am still in the embryonic stage of learning about these. I have a question. In one of the pics the hole in the handle appears to be oval. All I have read (so far) says it should be more rectangular in shape. Since no one has pointed this out I assume that oval is an acceptable variation. But, I hate to assume. Is that something to question or are some of them just oval? Thanks for any input...and thanks to all who contribute to this forum. It has been my go to place for researching these daggers. Thanks!
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Welcome, Bob, to GDC,
In a perfect dagger, the bottom hole should look like a rectangular hole superimposed on a circular hole. Much like these 2 SA grip bottoms:
1.jpg (60.5 KB, 133 downloads) 2.jpg (13.75 KB, 133 downloads)
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That's what I thought. But is an oval hole an indicator of a replacement handle or is it OK? Thanks, Bob
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Joined: Sep 2000
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(SA and SS grips are dimensionaly exactly the same BTW)
Why a circular hole and a rectangular hole ?
The circular hole is drilled through the entire grip. But, since the blade tang is wider at the bottom, the bottom hole must be enlarged so the tang will fit up in the grip without splitting the wood.
The tang:
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Joined: Sep 2000
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To accommodate the wider tang, a tool called a mortising chisel was used to carve out the wood from the bottom of the grip. No picture ... I've got one somewhere but it is hiding from me right now. So you end up with a grip bottom looking like the two shown above.
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But, when the dagger is assembled, the grip must fit correctly with the nickel-silver guard and steel blade. It mostly almost fits the first time but the assembler has to file away here or there to get exact, correct fit. And the wood is the easiest part to file on. So, almost no grips look exactly like they started out. Many show signs of being modified.
Here is one from an SS Hammesfahr of mine that looks much like the one you asked about:
9.JPG (166.99 KB, 129 downloads)
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Unfortunately ... a large hole at the bottom of the grip is also the sign of a bad dagger assembled from loose parts. Here is a bad grip. Notice also how the sides have also been filed away.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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In the end it comes down to judgement and knowledge, but I hope you can see the difference between the bad grip above and the others.
Questions ?
Dave
PS - I hope you bought Tom Wittmann's SS book. You can see some of my collection there too.
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Thanks Dave. I really appreciate the input. I do a bit of woodworking, so I am familiar with mortising and how it's difficult to get it right first try. If done by machine it should be more repeatable though never perfect, if by hand less so, either way it will require the hand work you described. This has been very helpful. Like I said, at this point I am a sponge soaking up as much as I can. You have been very helpful. I do have Tom Wittmann's SS Dagger book; it has been very informative. I also have Third Reich Daggers by Bowman and have a set of LTC Thomas Johnson's books, volumes 1-5 and Detecting The Fakes by Lumsden coming in next week.
Any other recommendations for books?
Thanks again, Bob
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Joined: Sep 2000
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The mortising chisels used to cut out the tang channel in wooden grips were belt powered machines. I think one of Tom Johnson's books has a photo.
As for books, you have the best except for Bowman. I have it too, but most experienced guys do not rate it high. Great line drawings and photos but the info is not the best.
If you can, go to the SOS show in February in Louisville or the MAX show in September at York in Pennsylvania. Both run by the Ohio Valley Military Society.
Dave
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Thanks for the info. I got the Bowman book before I found Whittmann's. I pretty much go to Tom's book now as it does seem more detailed. Thanks
Bob
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