|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 |
I believe it was Redbaron who had a problem with the script. Seems he was taught to scribe by a German who, according to him, would never have used that form of "M". I guess never mind that his teachings were 60-70 years later and he was not a Nazi. Or maybe he was... The person who claimed to have seen the repo's in eastern Europe I think was a different member.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333 |
A chilling thought indeed! but interesting. I have had this particular M36 since 1969, well back in the cold-war era which pre-dates the wave of Eastern European super-fakes we are currently afflicted with. I attach close ups of the mottoe etch and the tang mark for my dagger. This tang mark I have personally seen only on the early all steel Type "1"'s, but Tom Wittman's SS book page 164 shows this emblem on the tang of an M7/29 - although there is not an etch pattern correlation with my dagger.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 |
The Type I that I posted photos of also has the same tang marking. It is not all steel, having solid nickel hilt fittings and plated scabbard fittings. I have seen the same motto and tang marking on several other daggers. NO question of originality in my opinion once you have had a hands-on inspection.
Last edited by Skyline Drive; 08/01/2012 01:53 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 |
I might also add that Wittmann currently has a chained dagger with the exact same motto, but it is not a Type I. In fact, I have never seen anything quite like it... silver hallmarked chain and really weird chain links. http://www.wwiidaggers.com/31305.htm
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,978 Likes: 33
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,978 Likes: 33 |
Further he states that he has an identical chain in his collection. What sayeth the pundits in this regard....???? cheers
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026 |
Further he states that he has an identical chain in his collection. What sayeth the pundits in this regard....???? cheers This pundit says it's probably called a Chained SS Honor Dagger.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102 |
I have also seen that tang mark with 7 small circles twice, both on blades with 941/37/SS with the squirrel logo.
Does anyone have pictures of the chain of an SS Honor Dagger or any chain marked "800" silver ?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333 |
SS-M36 modified honour dagger with silver marked chainset.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026 |
Ain't that something!This chain is called the Type X I II to the power of ten.
Last edited by zorro; 08/02/2012 05:29 PM.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102 |
Barry,
Can I ask what you mean by 'modified'?
Also, I cannot quite see the detail on the links. Do the skulls appear to be the same as on the silver one posted a bit higher?
Thanks Dave
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333 |
Modified as in the chainset being added to an early SS-honour dagger,the centre band fits over the existing leather, probably fitted at the Eickhorn factory to existing stock. Similar work was done on early SA Honours. Best pictures I have, scans of old prints, as this dagger left me about twenty years back. The links detail etc., are not like the bespoke piece Tom Wittmann has for sale. I have seen three of these SS-M36 SS-Honour daggers, all identical, except one had extra links in the chain set. Again, scanned prints from many years back.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026 |
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194 |
Reguarding the "fluted" M , are we talking about the way the furthest to the left vertical stroke is flared at the very top ?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333 |
I have noted the variations of script style featured by Wittmann and Siegert in their respective books on SS blades.Here are just a very few page scans from a TR period German handbook on calligraphy; the variety of script from various historical periods and subsequent artistic interpretations seems almost infinite. I guess that the obviously several template artists employed on these blades must have been given some kind of general performance guideline, but then applied their individual interpretations. Whatever, I do not believe that there was a "correct" etch script against which every which SS dagger blade we have must conform, jmo.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,101 Likes: 102 |
"I do not believe that there was a "correct" etch script against which every which SS dagger blade we have must conform, jmo"
I agree 100%, Barry and have said so in different words. It is usually in response to an opinion that an etch on a dagger is not correct for that maker or an attempt to ID an M1936 based on blade etch. I believe that there were several suppliers of the wax templates and I further do not believe any one supplier necessarily used templates with identical detail. The words, size and font were mandated, but minute details?
In TW's book, there is a chapter on blade mottoes starting on page 676 and a few of those blades are mine. We cleared off the bench that he he used to pack stuff and laid out all the SS daggers available with the objective of identifying the M1936 makers. We never got complete matches and even some of the M1933's of the same maker varied.
The same applies to the detail on the eagles and SS runes. See the threads pinned at the top of this forum.
Dave
|
|
|
Forums42
Topics31,673
Posts329,346
Members7,549
|
Most Online5,900 Dec 19th, 2019
|
|
11 members (Dave, Don Scowen, Vik, Nietzsche, Luftbud, Documentalist, Vern, ojje, Honestmike, Stephen, Cameron),
232
guests, and
239
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|